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Is there really no build queue?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Arkatakor, Oct 21, 2016.

  1. atomfenrir

    atomfenrir Chieftain

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    Add my name to the list of guys who played 1000+ hours of Civ5 without ever knowing about this queue feature until hearing people complain that it wasn't included in Civ6. :crazyeye:
     
  2. maxp779

    maxp779 Chieftain

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    Yup. Im a macro oriented played and I sorely miss civ IV's city governor.

    I cant play civ V anymore due to the tedium associated with populating a build queue. Populating build queues bores me. Warfare, diplomacy and planning future expansion is the fun part for me, sim empire effectively.
     
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  3. Lugh

    Lugh Prince

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    Well said. When I found my 20th city in Civ4, I get no pleasure from having to click on sth, then click on sth else when the first item is built. I thank the gods and Soren that all I need to do is press the "1" key to have an auto-queue loaded...
    Granary
    Forge
    Barracks
    ...or press "2" for a different auto-queue...
    Work Boat
    Lighthouse
    Library
    ...as well as the Alt-Unit auto-queue to pump out Infantry or Archers until told otherwise--marry that with the auto-deploy feature so they'll march happily to wherever, and you have a game where you can focus on strategy rather than the boring tedium of constant same-again so-called "decisions". Sid's strategy mantra is "interesting choices", not buzz-kill repetition.

    I was really disappointed when the wonderful folks behind the fantastic Civ4 mods BUG/BAT [Emperor Fool, Lemon Merchant et al--thank you so much] told me it wasn't possible to have the auto builder function you describe. Found city, choose improvements to be built in fat cross, they get built in the sequence you picked them as the techs become available. That's strategy. Clicking a Worker onto a hill, and next turn clicking him to build a Mine--that's mind-numbing.

    So a big YES from me to providing the option of auto-queues wherever they are possible. Let the player then decide if it makes sense for hir play style.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2016
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  4. Lugh

    Lugh Prince

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    I go with Sid's mantra of "interesting choices", eg the city planning scenario in my previous post. Especially after my first 6-10 cities in Civ4, usually the only strategic decision for my next city is 'get it up and running'. Auto-queuing the relevant first 5-10 builds on the city's first turn doesn't reduce the strategy one iota, since obviously I can step in at any time and change the queue if a new strategic concern appears. So, interesting choices, not spread-out choices.
    You're assuming nothing changes within those 10-15 turns, or that you don't have things to do with the units produced, or etc etc.

    I guess it's as an earlier poster said, whether or not you want micro-management in a strategy game. I don't, others do. So we need both approaches to be catered for within the UI.
     
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  5. Lugh

    Lugh Prince

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    Perhaps you're talking about these early days in Civ6's life? In which case, you have a point.

    I can assure you however that the lack of a decent UI--of which build automations were a large part--forced me to stop playing Civ4 for a long time, until whenever the expansions, or more likely BAT/BUG mods, made it enjoyable again.

    However, in broad terms I disagree with your premise. A build queue emphatically does NOT reduce in any way my thinking about what I want a city to do. It merely alters the timing from drip-drip-drip to one big splash :lol: and the choices made can be changed at any time.
     
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  6. Lugh

    Lugh Prince

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    Forgive me if you're not being serious, but that's a very judgmental statement. Having a queue is a design for players who prefer to focus on strategy, which I think is an essential design policy in a grand strategy game.

    Players who prefer other aspects to the strategic don't have to use the queues, so everyone's happy.

    One of the main reasons I still play Civ4 is because it's as far from "rote procedure" as a game can get. Go into 'Custom Game' in the game starting menu and try to count the different possible game configurations. Then there's the thing that every map can be different...

    The other main reason I still play Civ4 is because all the automation options remove the boring tedium and allow me to play a strategy game in a mostly strategic fashion.
     
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  7. skyclad

    skyclad Prince

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    Come on, you cant seriously be suggesting lack of features as intended and good design. The devs shouldnt make the game harder to manouver and make inputs into to steer our way of playing... Doesnt make any sense. "This is a hotel, not a borstal" to quote a famous hotel owner.
    Like if the devs don't like us using mainly archers, they make your computer play a loud noice whenever you build one to annoy you.

    Actually in civ 5 they did that mistake. They intentionally did not reveal AI diplo modifiers because they wanted you to read their body language and not stare at a list of numbers hehe. Was changed quickly enough.
     
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  8. Lugh

    Lugh Prince

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    Ah, there's the multi-quote!
    It's a bit stronger for me, it's keeping me from buying the game at all. I learned my lesson about buying Day 1 with Civ5, this time I'm waiting until the game is in a decently playable state as a strategy game. This build queue mistake tells me immediately that the UI is in a sorry state, which I can generally see in play-thru videos.

    If you had ever played with a queue feature, you would know that it becomes more essential the further you get into the game. I admire your fortitude in desiring to make individual decisions in 30 cities in the mid or later game, but I'm not looking for a character building boost when I play Civ.
     
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  9. TehJumpingJawa

    TehJumpingJawa Warlord

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    Initially I didn't miss it, but the more familiar I become with the game, the more jarring its omission becomes.

    When you've got a production power house pumping out units every turn, the inability setup a looped build queue to alternate between two units is especially grating.

    On a related note only being able to buy one unit of each type per turn is quite tedious.
    ....And when buying stuff, don't close the build menu afterwards! I might want to buy something else too! (buying all the basic buildings in a new city for instance)
     
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  10. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

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    Having a build queue really should be a no-brainer - districts or not. Sure, I didn't use the queue that often in Civ5, but the fact that I *can't* use it in those situations in late game where I have build a new city or a new district and just want to fill all buildings into it is really annoying. Or if you want to build multiple copies of a unit, which was something I used a lot in Civ5.

    On a side-note, the Civ5 queue had a glaring omission that you couldn't queue up buildings that required each other. For instance, if you wanted to build Market and then Bank, you couldn't add the Bank to the queue before the Market was build, even if the Market was already in the queue. I hope when they add the queue to Civ6, they fix this issue.
     
  11. steveg700

    steveg700 Deity

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    I've been playing 4x games since MOO. Be nice to have one for sure, but can enjoy the game without one. Then again, I don't envision a game of Civ VI where I'll be juggling 30 cities.
     
  12. CPWimmer

    CPWimmer King

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    Yes, Please!
     
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  13. Lugh

    Lugh Prince

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    Same in Civ4.
    Ideally you'd have to only add 'final' buildings to a queue to have the game [or city mgr] take care of the pre-requisites. Eg in Civ4 add University, Bank and Power Station manually or via shortcut, and the Library, Market, Forge and Factory get auto-queued before them. Such efficiency is always welcome in a large empire.
    I like to empire build, one of my fav Civ4 maps is Terra, due to the whole new continent opening up with Astronomy. Doing well on a large map can easily yield 2-3 dozen cities, without any conquering. I hope Civ6 will not penalize wide empires like Civ5, that's one of the main reasons I didn't play much of 5.

    Lack of queues and shortcuts is a real pain for builders like me, or warmongers who conquer a lot, once we're familiar with the game and can plan ahead. All we want is the option.
     
  14. Underseer

    Underseer King

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    No build queue, no worker automation, plus endless missionary spam from my neighbors. Wheeee!
     
  15. steveg700

    steveg700 Deity

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    Fair point. I can see where a warmonger campaign would get out of hand with no queue.
     
  16. Proteus

    Proteus King

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    [nitpicking]
    Actually lack of features can be a sign of a good design.
    Examples:
    A Gamma Ray Weapon that kills every enemy unit in range also can be seen as a feature
    An I-Win-Button can also be seen as a feature
    The ability to see every unit on the map can also be seen as a feature

    But I think we all agree that the features I mentioned would, if implemented, be detrimetral to game fun/replayability in the game. And therefore, the lack of those features is actually a sign of good game design.
    [/nitpicking]

    I agree, however, that this isn't applicable to features like a building queue, keyboard shortcuts or city renaming. It is strange that this didn't get included into the release version of Civ VI.
    Even a short building queue (like 5 units) would already help a lot
     
  17. TraderInvader

    TraderInvader Chieftain

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    ^this right here.The early game seems to place much importance on how you develop a city and what you build with the importance dwindling after you have a certain amount of cities that have the economy of 4-6 small cities. I call these the powerhouse cities, once fully functional every city afterwards, captured or settled, is just supplemental to a certain production focus and compensatory for one of the powerhouses when its focus is changed.

    I agree with this. I would prefer to see this as a social policy or even as a benefit to a civic or technology rather than a feature that is usable from the start of a game. IMO, it would be pretty gnarly to have a policy only usable during war like a Nationalized Production or Total War policy to drop into my government tree for a production queue feature. This would be great for auto-piloting nuisance cities that wont be part of the war while providing a bonus of convenience for front line cities to spam units/defenses.
     
  18. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

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    Even if I can't set up a deep build queue, at least a simple alt/ctrl/shift-click to set the next thing to start after the current one would be a useful addition. Often when I plan I think, "okay, let's get the granary up first, then the library will go next". So now, I set the granary, then 4-5 turns later I come back to the city and think, "so, what was it that I wanted next?"

    You'd need to give a dialog that says when you build something and the next thing gets queued, in case I forgot. And I'm perfectly fine with not being able to queue things deeper in the chain. But would be nice to at least be able to set the next build, or if I'm building a market now, but want to sneak in building ancient walls since I see a bunch of horsemen walking towards me, to just be able to click and say, "build walls now, then resume the market after" would certainly be nice.
     
  19. Sera Otoro

    Sera Otoro Chieftain

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    I personally don't mind the lack of a build queue. What I do mind however is the lack of an option to convert production into wealth, culture or science until you decide you want to change it to something else. Projects with a build time do not cut it when you are trying to focus on a large scale war (especially online with friends) and your cities are already fully decked out.
     
  20. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    That is a TERRIBLE idea, UI should NEVER be based on gameplay.

    Perhaps your cities should change what they are building every turn until you have Early Empire. (so you must tell them what to produce every turn)
    [same for techs and civics... you should get prompted for what to research every turn until you get Recorded History and can actually make long term plans]

    UI elements that just aren't there is bad
    UI elements that depend on a gameplay element is even worse
     
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