[NFP] Is this game winnable?

[intellectsucks]

I just spent the last two hours reloading the same forty turns of this map trying to figure out a way to not get completely owned before turn 50. If you're a pro who thinks they can succeed where I failed, then give it your best shot. I only ask that you post a detailed write up of how you made it to turn 100. GOOD LUCK!!!

 

[PiR]

Have you tried sending it to Potatoe?

EDIT: I mean, not the first turn, but the moment when you thought you lost.

 

[PiR]

Hi,

I gave it a try.
I only go for tech/civ with Inspirations/Eurekas.
I had a barb camp close which I cleared quickly
When I met Gilgamesh (turn 25), I offered friendship, he accepted
I got 3 huts
Then I forward-settled 2 cities.
I'm at turn 59, chilling, going for a religion (cf. quicksave) - wasted opportunities since my 3rd hut so better to play from this one.

I would say little peaceful expansion can still be done on this continent but otherwise but have to be on another continent or attacking (maybe rush keshig)

Does this help?

Cheers

 

[intellectsucks]

Hi,

I gave it a try.
I only go for tech/civ with Inspirations/Eurekas.
I had a barb camp close which I cleared quickly
When I met Gilgamesh (turn 25), I offered friendship, he accepted
I got 3 huts
Then I forward-settled 2 cities.
I'm at turn 59, chilling, going for a religion (cf. quicksave) - wasted opportunities since my 3rd hut so better to play from this one.

I would say little peaceful expansion can still be done on this continent but otherwise but have to be on another continent or attacking (maybe rush keshig)

Does this help?

Cheers

WELL DONE!!!

How did you get Gilgamesh to accept friendship? I had him unhappy with me every time I played.

If you continue, what is your plan to keep expanding? Go to war with Gilgamesh for a few cities?

 

[IsabelBraganca]

I was aggressive.

When I met Gilgamesh, I sent a delegation and didn't disclose where my capital was. My build order in the capital was scout-slinger-settler. My second city was on the coast and the third on the horses. I started researching Animal Husbandry, and beeline Craftsmanship. Despite getting a builder on the huts, I decided not to get the Inspiration for craftsmanship, because I wanted to build military fast ASAP, and I haven't researched the techs to improve the tiles I wanted. After AH, I went for Archery, but I researched close to a point when I would finish it with a eureka. My science was low, so I tried to get as many eurekas and inspirations as possible.

I built three slingers before I finished archery, then I upgraded all three. My first governador was Pingala. I sent a trade rote to Gilgamesh few turns before I declared war. I made sure to keep the archers and warriors near my cities. Gilgamesh was sending scouts to look at my cities, and that is a clear preclude for war, if the AI thinks you are an easy target. I made sure I wasn't, so I could fight the war on my terms, not theirs.

I don't think I can take the capital. It's time to sue for peace and build up the empire before the next campaign.

Turn 74

Spoiler :

Turn 90

Spoiler :

 

[PiR]

How did you get Gilgamesh to accept friendship? I had him unhappy with me every time I played.

The same for me on my first try.
The difference this time may be that a unit of mine discovered a unit of his, by my action, and not the other way around? I also did not disclose my capital (did not have the opportunity), but he did for his closest city (Sippar).
Immediately, without delegation, he accepts friendship. I am attaching turn 25 if you want to test.

Spoiler :

So I'm running a few tests, trying to meet Hammurabi in the same conditions:
1/ when I meet Gilgamesh in my retry I allow him to visit my capital and he still accepts friendship:

Spoiler :

The next turn, we're already in love

Spoiler :

I don't really need the +3 from the delegation with him.

Spoiler :

2/ Hammurabi is different when I meet him on my turn with one of my units. If I disclose my capital, he accepts delegation but not friendship (at least, not right away). If I don't reveal my capital it's not better.

So... I'm not sure exactly, but this Gilgalove totally saved my ass.

If you continue, what is your plan to keep expanding? Go to war with Gilgamesh for a few cities?

I was thinking, if we are friends, to keep it that way, and make Hammurabi a common enemy, which is likely to attack me soon or later, but I'm afraid of him. By the time I have keshig, he may have much better?
Attacking China seems hard with this choke point.
Probably would go through the water to try settle on unexplored land. Which kind of map did you select? I cannot find this info.

I was aggressive.

Very nice! I like how different playstyles can give totally different results!!

 

[intellectsucks]

This is why the forums are so awesome. I never knew that the AI would accept friendship on turn 1, so I never even tried it!!!

Great stuff guys!! It's making me want to go back and try it again.

I was aggressive.

When I met Gilgamesh, I sent a delegation and didn't disclose where my capital was. My build order in the capital was scout-slinger-settler. My second city was on the coast and the third on the horses. I started researching Animal Husbandry, and beeline Craftsmanship. Despite getting a builder on the huts, I decided not to get the Inspiration for craftsmanship, because I wanted to build military fast ASAP, and I haven't researched the techs to improve the tiles I wanted. After AH, I went for Archery, but I researched close to a point when I would finish it with a eureka. My science was low, so I tried to get as many eurekas and inspirations as possible.

I built three slingers before I finished archery, then I upgraded all three. My first governador was Pingala. I sent a trade rote to Gilgamesh few turns before I declared war. I made sure to keep the archers and warriors near my cities. Gilgamesh was sending scouts to look at my cities, and that is a clear preclude for war, if the AI thinks you are an easy target. I made sure I wasn't, so I could fight the war on my terms, not theirs.

I don't think I can take the capital. It's time to sue for peace and build up the empire before the next campaign.

Turn 74

Spoiler :

Turn 90

Spoiler :

Which of your two built cities was your second?

 

[KKirrin]

So... I'm not sure exactly, but this Gilgalove totally saved my ass.

Gilgabro will always accept friendship the turn you meet him and will almost always accept it up until he denounces you, it’s one of his personal quirks (he appreciates declared friends)

Other ai will also always accept delegations if you fire them off the turn you meet them

 

[IsabelBraganca]

Which of your two built cities was your second?

Ürümqi was the first.
Kökeqota was the second.

 

[Socrates99]

Gilgamesh got nicknamed Gilgabro pretty early on for two reasons. He'll almost always accept friendship as long as you send a delegation and propose as soon as you meet him. The other is he's swole like a gym bro.

 

[HiRezAudio]

WELL DONE!!!

How did you get Gilgamesh to accept friendship? I had him unhappy with me every time I played.

If you continue, what is your plan to keep expanding? Go to war with Gilgamesh for a few cities?

Gilgamesh will always accept a delegation and a friendship request as long as you do this on the very first turn you meet him.
This is absolutely guaranteed with him, no matter what level.

 

[MrRadar]

He'll almost always accept friendship as long as you send a delegation and propose as soon as you meet him

You can save 25g for some better ends that early, Gilga will accept friendship straight away, no prior delegation needed with him. And when you're declared friends, AI will accept delegation/embassy any time when you have more spare funds to burn.

 

[PiR]

You can save 25g for some better ends that early, Gilga will accept friendship straight away, no prior delegation needed with him. And when you're declared friends, AI will accept delegation/embassy any time when you have more spare funds to burn.

Definitely. It's +9 to be friends which is free, only +3 for the delegation which 25 gold.

 

[Cherenkov]

This is not a great map but not bad either. The starting capital is pretty good and I was pumping out horses from there once the tech was available. Mongol horsemen are super strong with +9 dmg due to horde and intel so make sure to setup that trading route with your first victim. Since Gilgamesh had no resources all he had to defend was warriors and carts which got destroyed by my Mongol horsies. The big issue is lack of science. PotatoMcwhiskey has a really fun Mongo deity video but his science was super strong early

and despite his late start of attacking he snowballed so quickly. There is a +5 campus in my city of Asku but otherwise not so great campuses.

Adab has pyramids which is nice but I missed a golden age and my income isn't so great so need to start cranking out those commercial hubs.

I actually made a mistake and declared friendship twice in a row so I couldn't even start attacking Gilgamesh until around T88 but with the horses, 1 warrior + battering ram, 2 archers his cities fell quickly despite the ancient walls he had in Adab and Uruk. I think with better timing Gilgamesh can be taken much earlier.

Kind of mad that I lost my northern scout. Need to get a horse up there asap to seek out the other civs. First general is due soon and Keshigs are not far away.

 

[PiR]

If I remember correctly, there is nothing north, just a bit of tundra and the end of the map.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Ugh this start sucks. Since I didn't want to tangle with Gilgamesh I just picked my own corner and will probably find another continent or something. Also GJ to everyone who won militarily xD

I settled on the dye to get faith and ran God King to get a pantheon. Big Mistake; I ended up getting sea boats but couldn't even improve my sea resources because production was so bad-- should have just ignored the pantheon entirely.

Went Liang--> Magnus as with all bad starts with some choppables and went the harbor route. At least I have a +5 campus. Fell into a Dark Age and barely got out of it, showing how bad things are; had to build a ship and a +4 harbor to seal the deal. At least oracle wasn't taken. My forward city got a Government Plaza to avoid flipping due to Dark Age and built Colosseum as well.

Built Meme chamber since I wasn't conquering or settling anything. Will try to actually build improvements as every builder went to chop something.

Currently actually not that far behind the AIs, but I'm mostly being carried by Free Inquiry Heroics. If I can get Masoleum, things should be pretty swell. Think any victory is going to be tedious though. Will continue to sell my favor to whoever. Perhaps someone's cities will flip? I'll be heading towards Civil Service to make alliances and trade.

Come to think about it Babylon would have been easier to kill.

Edit: Oh yea, scout --> slinger ---> settler. But unlike me you should switch to settler as soon as you reach pop 2. On protected coast starts like these, espeically facing a CS and Gilgamesh, you don't really need to build many units. Normally I'd do builder, but there's nothing to improve.

 

[Casualty of war]

The starting spot is terrible. You will squander the Trees on that hill for a 2 Food 1 Hammer capitol with no good tiles in the first ring. I moved to the Swamp for some early Faith but an argument can be made for just forsaking the coast.

People have already mentioned the Gilgamesh trick. He will settle real close and you can pick up some amazing cities by just being Golden when he goes Dark. He also loves joining any wars you get involved in.

I went Slinger-Slinger-Builder (hello, Horses)-Settler. There's a fantastic Campus spot to the West so that's where I plopped my second city.

I got a Turn 10 first meet with Muscat, 2 envoys from Tribal Huts plus a Trade Route quest so I suzerained them early then levied their troops. Paired with my two Archers and my starting Warrior, I started chewing into Hammurabi. I will eventually link up a bunch of Horsemen and take on Kublai Khan also.

It doesn't matter how many Grievances Gilgamesh gets against you, as long as you renew the friendship the turn it expires he will accept. With him, you just have to be careful he doesn't run away with Ziggurat science; you do have to keep him from expanding too much or he will become unmanageable.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Update to t125, certainly will break no speed records this game....Also, gotta regret that haphazard plaza placement.

Spoiler :

Went for Cartography in search of a new landmass. Also stumbled upon the Bermuda Triangle.... disappointing.

But it is another place I can colonize and having only 4 cities I am not too picky.

Got Naval Tradition for full Free Inquiry memes with Masoleum and now have more science than anyone else with just 2 campuses though Issac Newton is helping. (Well Babylon has more techs than me, but Babylon is also BS so w/e) But how long is this era gonna last anyways? (this is why I don't really like it)

Great Admiral gets me one extra trade route, which is nice since I'm taking advantage of alliance trade routes very readily. Waiting for that Wisselbanken. I don't need merchant confederation with this setup.

I don't know what victory to go for this, but they seem kinda substandard, so culture is probably best and it's not like I actually have production in this area. I'm slowly trickling some faith from my religious alliance with Saladin.

Kilwa's probably a goner; not going to even try. Will go for shipyards.

 

[walkerjks]

Oh my. No game modes. I'm going to try for the crazy - peaceful cultural win. Not sure it's possible without more land to expand into. Will partially depend on who else is in the game (please no Peter, please no Peter...). Finding land some islands is going to be the priority after settling my little corner of the map.

 

[PiR]

Finding land some islands is going to be the priority after settling my little corner of the map.

You have a hint in the spoilers just above your post.