Is this the end of liberalism?

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Open discussion often not what activists want. They want shamed silence.
It seems like shamed silence is also what those who are condemning the campus protesters want... As in... "You should be ashamed of yourselves you spoiled brats in your ivory tower! You have no idea how good you have it! Shut your ungrateful mouths and go back to quietly doing your homework! You know nothing of real life living in your artificial safety bubble! No one out here in the real world wants to hear your privileged spoiled whining! Shame! Shame! Shame!"
 
I once had a similar view on social justice movements. It is easy to claim the reasonable "moderate" position where you're essentially saying "I am generally in favor of your ideas, if you were a little bit nicer about them".

When I actually started to read what social justice activists were writing - I mean really read it, not just reading quote mines during unrelated discussions or exaggerated representations featuring the popular stereotypes - I found this position indefensible. A lot of what I read made me uncomfortable, so my immediate reaction was to bring out the usual responses for why they must be wrong or unreasonable if what they said made me uncomfortable. Only over time did I realize that I was uncomfortable because I knew they were right.

If some of those people had been "reasonable" and non-confrontational about formulating their beliefs, I probably would have never even challenged what I previously thought. Sometimes you just have to push against well-established ideas in peoples' minds where just a reasoned debate would be easily disregarded and have no effect.

In other words, if a social justice activist "fights", maybe it is because they have to fight to even begin to overcome to status quo they oppose.


By the way, that doesn't mean I disagree with your subsequent observation about some aspects of the culture around the social justice movement. I'm just skeptical why that is at all relevant and has to be constantly brought up and reinforced by using the SJW moniker.

For every political movement you will have the phenomenon that there is a minority of educated activists with the necessary rhetorical skills to communicate their position in a compelling manner. Most people who share their position may follow for good reason, but lack the skill to express it. Or they are just along for the ride because that political movement is their social environment.

This applies in the same way to people from well established political movements: have you ever seen people talk politics on Facebook? Never seen staunch and outspoken Democrats/Republicans who clearly had no clue about their own professed political position? This effect is further amplified for the social justice movement because it basically exists only on the internet, with no buttressing from credible looking politicians and traditional media that would drown out the crazies a bit.

(Not to mention that a disproportionate part of people in the SJ movement are teenagers who I think deserve to be cut some slack.)

This of course doesn't excuse all the problematic stuff going on in the SJ movement, but really is grounds for questioning the whole narrative that it is made up of only crazy people who can be easily dismissed. Because that is arbitrary. Instead, seek out the people who can actually express a reasoned position, and evaluate the movement on those terms. This is general advice for evaluating political positions by the way.

Word.

This post should go into an OT Wiki or something for reference in perpetuity.
 
If MLK, Mandela, or Harvey milk were alive today, they would be called SJW's, alongside many other agitators for racial, sexual, LGBT, religious and class-based equality.

SJW is just another in a long line of pathetic, regressive insults used against people who dare to upset the status quo.
 
If MLK, Mandela, or Harvey milk were alive today, they would be called SJW's, alongside many other agitators for racial, sexual, LGBT, religious and class-based equality.

SJW is just another in a long line of pathetic, regressive insults used against people who dare to upset the status quo.

That is laughable and is a straight up insult to MLK, Mandela and Harvey Milk.
 
That is laughable and is a straight up insult to MLK, Mandela and Harvey Milk.
I think that the "Warrior" part of SJW is meant to be sarcastic... As in they are not "Warriors" they are "whiners" who take themselves as seriously as you would expect a real warrior to.

Mandela, Milk, MLK... these guys gave their blood, sweat, tears, freedom and ultimately their lives (or most of their lives) on the altar of their respective causes. The SJW insult I think, is based on the implication that the persons targeted would never do what those guys did... they are just blowhards playing at being "warriors" for a cause... at least that's my impression from how I see SJW used.
 
What would you call people who fought for social justice, other than social justice warriors nexlev? You can't have your cake and eat it, it either means something or nothing.
 
Social justice warriors don't fight for social justice though. "Social justice warriors" is just a derogatory term for those who create social justice problems by imagining that they are doing good instead.

Mandela would not be termed as a SJW. SJW is a pejorative and Mandela did a lot of good. There is no need to mock him or call him by a sarcastic term.
 
I think that the "Warrior" part of SJW is meant to be sarcastic... As in they are not "Warriors" they are "whiners" who take themselves as seriously as you would expect a real warrior to.

Mandela, Milk, MLK... these guys gave their blood, sweat, tears, freedom and ultimately their lives (or most of their lives) on the altar of their respective causes. The SJW insult I think, is based on the implication that the persons targeted would never do what those guys did... they are just blowhards playing at being "warriors" for a cause... at least that's my impression from how I see SJW used.
absolutely.
What would you call people who fought for social justice, other than social justice warriors nexlev? You can't have your cake and eat it, it either means something or nothing.
Take your pick: activists, advocates, leaders. I think leaders is the most apropos description.

These three people mentioned were very different as individuals, so to find a trait that they share in common that would distinguish them from SJW is not something I will try. However, they affected real change and that alone separates them from SJW.

For every MLK, Milk and Mandela there were thousands of contemporaries who shared some of their causes but lacked the character, vision, and energy to accomplish anything. These people can't be named because they are invisible to history. They weren't called SJW because before the internet these people would be forced to shout at their TVs, pets, ham radios, and any unfortunate friends they may have had. Before tumblr, in order to have a significant voice you also had to have significant gumption.

There are in this day real life MLKs, Milk's and Mandelas but they aren't SJW. They are hitting the pavement and speaking with their actions, mapping out long term endgames and acting in accordance.
 
If MLK, Mandela, or Harvey milk were alive today, they would be called SJW's, alongside many other agitators for racial, sexual, LGBT, religious and class-based equality.

SJW is just another in a long line of pathetic, regressive insults used against people who dare to upset the status quo.

In his day, Martin Luther freely admitted that Philip Melanchthon was the better theologian. Luther was point man because of his debate skills. When the shouting died down, Luther eventually recanted almost all his work, excepting "The bondage of the Will", an early reply to Erasmus, and the small catechism. Luther's comment on his own work was that he often overextended to make a point.

On a side note, a popular alternate history series, beginning with "1632", posits a small US mountain town dropped in the middle of the 30 Years War. The local Roman Catholic chruch has to change its name, because Vincent de Paul is still alive--and much disliked.

J
 
conservatives have a habit of praising all the past social agitators and denigrating all the current ones. The next generation of conservatives praises the ones the last one was denigrating, but denigrates the current ones. The cycle continues.
 
Social justice warriors don't fight for social justice though. "Social justice warriors" is just a derogatory term for those who create social justice problems by imagining that they are doing good instead.

Mandela would not be termed as a SJW. SJW is a pejorative and Mandela did a lot of good. There is no need to mock him or call him by a sarcastic term.

How do social justice warriors create social justice problems?

I understand you hate and fear SJW's warpus, i understand this but you need to take a step back and ask yourself who you are aligning yourself when you fall pray to this needless vitriol and hatred of the other
 
conservatives have a habit of praising all the past social agitators and denigrating all the current ones. The next generation of conservatives praises the ones the last one was denigrating, but denigrates the current ones. The cycle continues.

Yup. I don't think people remember what they called MLK back in the day.
 
Yup. I don't think people remember what they called MLK back in the day.

They called him a communist, a liberal and other disparaging terms, some of which are directly related to SJW.
 
They called him a communist, a liberal and other disparaging terms, some of which are directly related to SJW.

"Race baiter"
 
conservatives have a habit of praising all the past social agitators and denigrating all the current ones. The next generation of conservatives praises the ones the last one was denigrating, but denigrates the current ones. The cycle continues.

Maybe. I know some conservatives who still criticize King as a womanizer and communist. I know even more who are not fans of Mandela, and many who probably don't even know who Milk is, but would probably not be a fan if they did.

People are easier to judge in hindsight. People who accomplish something, it makes it easier to overlook their personal shortcomings. All our heroes had skeletons. All saints were sinners, etc.

There are liberals who I respect, and anyone who calls them a SJW is frankly an idiot. Bill Gates supports many liberal causes. I admire both Al Gore and Bernie Sanders, although I disagree with their environmental and economic policies respectfully. I admire Obama's advocacy for drug decriminalization and reform of the criminal justice sytem, and in general I'm impressed with his charisma, public speaking ability, control of his emotions, etc.
 
i can imagine rosa parks would've probably been an sjw back in the day

A woman who challenged the status quo? Absolutely, she'd probably been labelled many (unrepeatable) things both by the manosphere and the racists (if the latter existed at that time).
 
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