is Tithe a no-brainer?
- Thread starter Autoclave
- Start date
In my view, Interfaith Dialogue is best when you are last (or nearly last) to found a religion and fully expect to get overwhelmed by a tide of religious pressure, so founder beliefs that are predicated on your religion spreading (and staying spread) are unrealistic and/or nearly worthless. But it still requires pretty robust levels of faith generatoin to be worthwhile.
Cromagnus
Deity
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2012
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- 2,272
On Deity, I find that Pilgrimage is never there by the time I found, or I would usually take it if I'm going peaceful. If I'm not going peaceful I find it less useful.
Tithe and Church Property are both inferior (imho) to Initiation Rites because I get a minimum of 700 gold before turn 110. (My cities + 2 CS usually)
As someone else pointed out, the gold you get late game from Tithe or Church Property is not as valuable as a free University early. Or a free settler, or whatever. Especially because there's usually one low-production city in your empire holding you back from building a National Wonder.
I do get Church Property if nothing better is available, and Tithe if Church Property isn't available. (+8 gpt in my 4 cities early really helps the warpath...)
However, I find Peace Gardens often preferable if I'm going tall. I want gardens anyway, and 2 extra happiness is awesome. It's less useful for conquest. The puppet AI won't build gardens, and you need a pretty big city before a Garden is helping on top of Colosseum/Circus/Pagoda.
Maybe it's just me, but I still think Ceremonial Burial is the way to go for conquest. Conquest is usually happiness limited, so getting the benefit as soon as you convert a city, even at +1/2 cities, is better than having to annex/courthouse/pagoda, etc.
I dunno, Maybe Tithe is better for conquest... that way, the +1g/4pop almost scales with +1 unhappiness/pop, sort of, if you buy coliseums. I'm not sure the math works out though?
I *am* a fan of interfaith dialogue if you have insane faith output and you know you're going to have to pop multiple GrPr prior to industrial faith-banking. It's one of those things that *would* help early, but it's dangerous to put your religion in AI cities... so aside from CS or situations where I'm converting the cities of my enemy that I've already taken, I'm a little reluctant to take advantage of it.
Tithe and Church Property are both inferior (imho) to Initiation Rites because I get a minimum of 700 gold before turn 110. (My cities + 2 CS usually)
As someone else pointed out, the gold you get late game from Tithe or Church Property is not as valuable as a free University early. Or a free settler, or whatever. Especially because there's usually one low-production city in your empire holding you back from building a National Wonder.
I do get Church Property if nothing better is available, and Tithe if Church Property isn't available. (+8 gpt in my 4 cities early really helps the warpath...)
However, I find Peace Gardens often preferable if I'm going tall. I want gardens anyway, and 2 extra happiness is awesome. It's less useful for conquest. The puppet AI won't build gardens, and you need a pretty big city before a Garden is helping on top of Colosseum/Circus/Pagoda.
Maybe it's just me, but I still think Ceremonial Burial is the way to go for conquest. Conquest is usually happiness limited, so getting the benefit as soon as you convert a city, even at +1/2 cities, is better than having to annex/courthouse/pagoda, etc.
I dunno, Maybe Tithe is better for conquest... that way, the +1g/4pop almost scales with +1 unhappiness/pop, sort of, if you buy coliseums. I'm not sure the math works out though?
I *am* a fan of interfaith dialogue if you have insane faith output and you know you're going to have to pop multiple GrPr prior to industrial faith-banking. It's one of those things that *would* help early, but it's dangerous to put your religion in AI cities... so aside from CS or situations where I'm converting the cities of my enemy that I've already taken, I'm a little reluctant to take advantage of it.
sendos
Immortal
Pilgrimage is the first founder belief that religious AI's adopt. The other religious AI's randomly choose the others, but tithe.
As for the gold beliefs, it all depends on priorities.
- Initiation rites: short term, must found religion very early to make it work or else it's a wasted belief.
- Church property: short-mid term, must found religion rather early, because AI does like this belief.
- Tithe: long term, at least found the religion and make sure you have a wide enough empire for it to make a difference. If your religion spreads very far, this eventually acts like initiation rites once a turn, by that I mean, you could generate up to 100 gpt with tithe. Hence, OP and most of us here agree that tithe is a no-brainer and hence I think the devs may well consider tweaking founder beliefs or nerfing tithe.
As for the gold beliefs, it all depends on priorities.
- Initiation rites: short term, must found religion very early to make it work or else it's a wasted belief.
- Church property: short-mid term, must found religion rather early, because AI does like this belief.
- Tithe: long term, at least found the religion and make sure you have a wide enough empire for it to make a difference. If your religion spreads very far, this eventually acts like initiation rites once a turn, by that I mean, you could generate up to 100 gpt with tithe. Hence, OP and most of us here agree that tithe is a no-brainer and hence I think the devs may well consider tweaking founder beliefs or nerfing tithe.
You know sticking a cheap inquisitor in your city prevents enemy prophets from converting you. Or, if you have balls, take the prophets and make holy sites. War is inevitable, may aswell get a prize for starting one.
FYI, CS's don't use Prophets.. but they can capture them. Had a game where I DoW'ed sweden to stop his run away, he lost 4 or 5 missionaries and a GP to my CS allies.
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