Is Venice the mysterious 'Pro'-Civ? Is it designed as OCC-variant?

[Deggial]

From this German article we learned that there will be a downright 'Pro'-Civ in BNW.

What could this mean: 'Pro'-Civ? What could be so professional (= hard to play, suitable only for the experts) with any "standard" civilization?

There are other recent threads (this one and this one), that deduce Venice as part of a fully fleshed out civilization due to CS-colors. (A very sophisticated and professional work itself. Chapeau!)
Italy is speculated, but I don't think it will be in because of Rome.
So, Venice itself might be a civilization. But which cities could be founded by a "Venice Empire"? This is even harder to answer than the Hun's city list. Maybe there are no cities to be founded! Maybe...

Venice is designed to be played as 'One City Challange"!

Of course it is possible to play an OCC simply by picking the corresponding point in the start menu. But as full civilization by it's own, Venice could be tailored to be played with a single city only.

What could those specialized unique abilities be?

- Emphasize to naval trade seems to be inevitable.
- Maybe settlers are still available, but can only found non-growing / non-producing outposts to grab resources?
- Maybe Venice gets an UB/UA that transforms it into a production powerhouse to be able to compete with "grown up" civilizations?

Other ideas? Which abilities could an OCC civ get, to be played as interesting and competitive "standard"-civilization?

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Moderators: While this thread could have been hosted under one of the already existing threads, I think that this idea deserves it's own discussion. However, feel free to disagree and merge it with one of those threads.

 

[Menzies]

Someone shut me up well and good by posting a very respectable Venetian city list, I'll see if I can hunt down their post.

Maybe Venice could be a "pro-civ" in the way you describe, but I don't see them adding a "hard to master" kind of civ to the game though, as I can't see the AI being anything but horrifyingly poor using such a civ.

 

[g3istbot]

To me, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. You would essentially be playing a city state, but with a few extra perks to go along with it. It also seems odd that they would spend a great deal of time developing and working on a civilization, which only a small portion of the players would play, or be interested in playing. Generally from what we see with Firaxis is they try to give the players what they want in terms of playable civilizations.

Plus, the fact that there's already a One City Challenge present, seems kind of redundant for them to add a Civilization that plays only that, when it's already available. It would be like baking a pizza out of nothing but pepperonis simply because it's on the list of ingredients.

 

[Moraiwe]

So, Venice itself might be a civilization. But which cities could be founded by a "Venice Empire"? This is even harder to answer than the Hun's city list. Maybe there are no cities to be founded!

I'm so tired of suggestions that a Venice city list would be difficult. It's not at all, this is just off the top of my head:
Venice, Verona, Vicenza, Bassan, Padova, Treviso, Brescia, Bergamo, Crema, Zara, Spalato, Durazzo, Modon, Negropont, Candia, Canea, Famagusta, Nicosia

and I'm sure there's plenty more to choose from. Not sure if there's overlap with some of the Greek cities, but the Venetian names should compensate. I think Verona is the only one on the Roman list.

As to your OCC premise. It's an interesting idea.

 

[Menzies]

To me, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. You would essentially be playing a city state, but with a few extra perks to go along with it. It also seems odd that they would spend a great deal of time developing and working on a civilization, which only a small portion of the players would play, or be interested in playing. Generally from what we see with Firaxis is they try to give the players what they want in terms of playable civilizations.

Plus, the fact that there's already a One City Challenge present, seems kind of redundant for them to add a Civilization that plays only that, when it's already available. It would be like baking a pizza out of nothing but pepperonis simply because it's on the list of ingredients.

It would be like baking a pizza out of nothing but pepperonis simply because it's on the list of ingredients.

THIS MAN IS GOING TO MAKE MILLIONS!!!

Get going with that idea before someone else tries it!

 

[Sikandar]

edit: misinterpreted post.

 

[Arachnofiend]

We already have a civ that's especially geared towards doing well in OCC, it's called Ethiopia. And funny enough, they're not locked into that playstyle either.

 

[Muzzway]

"Pro-Civ" suggested awesome civ to me more than than hard-to-play civ. I guess since you are German that I shouldn't question your translation, but do you think this alternate interpretation is possible?

 

[Deggial]

Well, I think that 'Pro' is not a matter of translation, but of interpretation only. The term itself really doesn't reveal much. So, it could be considered as 'awesome', too, if you want.

I just wonder, why any reviewer would emphasize a civilization so much, only because it is especially fun to play. I think, there is more behind 'Pro' than this. And in fact, 'Pro' is used in German mostly to describe something 'hard-to-master'. I don't know, whether or not there are other acceptations of this term in English.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Perhaps the translation could also mean a civilization very much desired by the fans?

 

[Deggial]

But why don't call it simply 'fan-favorite" then?

 

[Gedemo]

Maybe a generic civ without UA and no start bias?

 

[Matthew.]

Pro could easily mean a Civ capable of being top-tier, which is the opinion of that writer. I wouldn't take his comment too literal.

For the sake of this discussion, what of that mysterious barbarian unit that was talked about? Some of you were coming up with some pretty crazy explanations that would definitely fit under "requires more knowledge/skill than other Civs" to play effectively.

 

[Martinus]

Yeah, the comment could mean literally anything. It could be a meta-comment (about the civilization being "uber" or, conversely, "hard to play") but it could also have been a reference to its special ability (e.g. a civilization with enhanced specialists or great people generation could be called "pro" as a refernece to its reliance on professionalism of its citizens) or even could have been a reference to that civilizations profficiency in real life (e.g. you could feel that Italy was a pro civilization in that it had, through renaissance, an immense influence on the world and created a lot of works of art etc.)

Or it could be just some crazy Germany dude not knowing what he is talking about and wanting to sound cool.

 

[Martinus]

But why don't call it simply 'fan-favorite" then?

Because Germans have a weird sense of humour?

 

[Uberfrog]

We already have a civ that's especially geared towards doing well in OCC, it's called Ethiopia. And funny enough, they're not locked into that playstyle either.

Yeah. I don't think Firaxis is keen on making ultra-prescriptive cviilisations that force you to play a particular way. Even Ethiopia and India (although the latter's ability has lost its sheen post-G&K) are possible to play effectively with many cities.

I can't see a forced-OCC civ ever existing, but it is possible the UA of any potential Venice civ could strongly favour a very capital-centric trade empire.

 

[Cooleatack]

Maybe they refer to Italy being a pro civ, in meaning of the enlightenement, and Being a major cultural power still today. It might have been a hint...

 

[Falk]

Heh, this is where this "pro-civ" thing comes from? I'm pretty sure it doesn't mean much.

When I read the article I understood it as meaning "a civ that is known only to history pros". Something like the Khazars or the Etruscans or the Hittites - as opposed to high-profile civs like Germany, France or China.

The article's author is certainly one of the most proficient strategy game experts in German game journalism, but from what I know, I don't think he's a civ buff like many of us here on the forums. So I doubt he'd make a comment on how difficult or "special" a civ is to play. And if he did, he'd probably use very different standards than us.

And btw, I'm pretty sure it's one these two meanings. All the other interpretations offered here don't make much sense in German. (Everyone has a different way of saying things though, so we can't know for sure, of course)

 

[sukritact]

Heh, this is where this "pro-civ" thing comes from? I'm pretty sure it doesn't mean much.

When I read the article I understood it as meaning "a civ that is known only to history pros". Something like the Khazars or the Etruscans or the Hittites - as opposed to high-profile civs like Germany, France or China.

The article's author is certainly one of the most proficient strategy game experts in German game journalism, but from what I know, I don't think he's a civ buff like many of us here on the forums. So I doubt he'd make a comment on how difficult or "special" a civ is to play. And if he did, he'd probably use very different standards than us.

And btw, I'm pretty sure it's one these two meanings. All the other interpretations offered here don't make much sense in German. (Everyone has a different way of saying things though, so we can't know for sure, of course)

I'm actually guessing the Venetians could fit into that. Most people don't know it ever had any territory beyond the one city.

 

[Olleus]

Venice would be interesting, but I'm struggling to think of how they could be differentiated from both Portugal and Carthage.

Clearly the UU will be some galleass variant (would be almost absurd to have anything else).
The UB would probably be something to help cities with lots of water tiles grow, not sure what it could be though. Some sort of lighthouse/harbour/windmill replacement that gives +1 prod to all coastal tiles touching the city (thus encouraging you to build them on tiny islands or at the end of peninsulas).
For the UA it would have to be some bonus to sea trade routes, which is different to Portugals...