Isabella - OP

[civnoob13]

I hear a lot of people complaining about the gold bonus for El Dorado. Although ludicrous, the gold bonus for Isabella discovering a natural wonder first is ... 500 gold on prince difficulty. Find a few natural wonders and your lead will be unbeatable. But not only that, Isabella also has the Conquistador, which I also think is OP. It has a higher LOS, receives no penalty for attacking cities (makes the game so much easier) and can settle new cities. So anyone think Isabella is OP?

 

[jagdtigerciv]

You're probably right. But I think many of us don't have the DLC. I'm enjoying this new patch so far, but it needs to get a lot better before I start spending money on DLCs.

 

[Dermo]

Don't have the DLC either (jury's still out on that decision).
But in the few post patch games I have started, it seems that there are significantly fewer wonders on the map. Anyone else notice this?

 

[Teepanen]

Don't have the DLC either (jury's still out on that decision).
But in the few post patch games I have started, it seems that there are significantly fewer wonders on the map. Anyone else notice this?

Nope. Probably your unluck of the draw.

 

[qyll]

I don't think Isabella is OP. Her UA is very hit or miss, in that you either settle next to a natural wonder or you don't. And even if you do, what is that worth? Unless it's the FOY, the extra yield is tantamount to one and a half great persons. Not bad at all, but definitely not in the OP range. Now, if you settle two or more natural wonders, then we can talk about a good start. As for the gold you get, that's 500 for each natural wonder found. That's lets you buy a settler right away with money to spare. Very good early game, but again, not OP.

Her unique units are ... eh. They don't get great carry-over bonuses like jaguars or janissaries, but they're decent if not a bit too specialized. Conquistadors would be excellent on a old world/new world map, but only marginally better than knights anywhere else. Tercios are good, but they are more expensive.

Overall, I'd say Izzy is good, but definitely not overpowered unless you find the FOY early, which happens once in a blue moon.

 

[Sneaks]

Isabella is overpowered on low difficulty settings, and a weenie on high ones. Further, her strength is highly dependent on map size. The bigger, the better, thanks to more natural wonders.

Honestly, at higher levels if you don't get a few good wonders first, your UA disappears by the wayside. The tercio is a shining example of mediocre UU. The conquistador has one good and one ok bonus, as well as two useless ones. The no city penalty is a plus, and the extra sight is nice, but really has little effect on the game by the time knights are out. The settling and defensive embark are bleh.

All in all, she is a very hit or miss leader with very meh synergy.

 

[bryanw1995]

yes, I think that she's pretty good but definitely not in the siam category. if you're isabella you just need to put a very high priority on extremely early exploration (think scout scout trireme), even up to immortal. on deity you might go scout warrior scout or scout warrior warrior, but you still MUST explore aggressively to realize her bonus. and let's face it, a 500 gold bonus in the first 20-30 turns is so OP'd that most good players would propel that into a deity win even with the patch.

 

[attackfighter]

They should make El Dorado only spawn on Terra maps. That way it comes later in the game and finding it is largely tied to how much effort you spend on exploration.

 

[alpaca]

All in all, she is a very hit or miss leader with very meh synergy.

So the DLC has one bad and one hit&miss civ. Great, I really don't want to buy it.

 

[Franks]

Hmm. Incas are not weak at all!

 

[Sneaks]

So the DLC has one bad and one hit&miss civ. Great, I really don't want to buy it.

I would say Incas are a very middle of the road civ. I would compare them to Iroquois in a lot of ways. Inca has a much worse UB. Inca's UU's ability is better, but base ability is far far worse. As far as UA, its a wash. Iroquois are so good not just because of the movement but because you don't have to build roads at all for trade routes, saving valuable worker time. While roads are free on hills/half cost elsewhere, you still need to build them, which is a ton of worker turns especially in ICS. The hill movement bonus, however, is pretty good because it works outside friendly territory too.

But yeah, Izzy is not worth it.

 

[bryanw1995]

I broke down in a moment of weakness the other day and bought them, I'll try them out in my next couple of games.

 

[joyous_gard]

I broke down in a moment of weakness the other day and bought them, I'll try them out in my next couple of games.

LOL - I have been there. I don't think I am doing it for Civ V though. Let us know what you think.

 

[Mustakrakish]

I don't know if Spain or Inca is OP when human player wields them, but they're definitely NOT OP when in AI's hand. I mean "old" civs stomp the newbies with ease in my games.

They should make El Dorado only spawn on Terra maps. That way it comes later in the game and finding it is largely tied to how much effort you spend on exploration.

That would make sure human player gets it 99% of the time.

 

[civnoob13]

I've played her twice now (first to find two natural wonders both times) and easily doubled the AI's score, usually I find the difficulty pretty challenging. I just emphasised scouting early game so I managed to get 1,000 from wonders. I had three cities before many of my opponents had two both times. And with the time that I hadn't wasted on settlers, the population growth not suffered from them, and my multiple cities meaning I didn't need to prioritise military and early culture, I managed to rush in a lot more early wonders than usual too.

 

[alpaca]

I would say Incas are a very middle of the road civ. I would compare them to Iroquois in a lot of ways. Inca has a much worse UB. Inca's UU's ability is better, but base ability is far far worse. As far as UA, its a wash. Iroquois are so good not just because of the movement but because you don't have to build roads at all for trade routes, saving valuable worker time. While roads are free on hills/half cost elsewhere, you still need to build them, which is a ton of worker turns especially in ICS. The hill movement bonus, however, is pretty good because it works outside friendly territory too.

But yeah, Izzy is not worth it.

Well the hill bonus is the only thing that comes close to a saving grace, and the ability is "meh" while not crap like the Ottos - but the UU is only good for the upgrade (admittedly, so are some other units out there like Janissaries and Jaguars) and the UI is horrible.

Iroquois are a lot stronger as you save a huge amount of worker turns and get immediate railroad benefits, plus the UB is quite good. The UU is a matter of taste but Mohawks and their upgrade are nigh unbeatable in forests, and in your territory they can move and attack even if you have no roads there, while the enemy can only move one tile.

 

[civnoob13]

Another thing I love about the iroquois is that the money that you save from no roads or railroads can be used to upgrade your mohawks, meaning that you have their extremely strong bonus throughout the game and you can focus on producing other things in your cities.

 

[Bob_]

Had a game lately in which i have been Spain and found Great Barrier Reef in Turn 20. "Great 500 Gold" i thought. Thats perhaps a little too strong tho.. Next Turn i found the other part of the Great barrier Reef and boom: another 500 gold! Hum! 1000 extra gold in turn 20? Its pretty ridiculous but ok, its gonna be an easy game. I was buying 2 settlers and a worker right away, settled one city near the Reef. Then i noticed that the other ability of Isabella is getting doubled yield from natural wonders. For great Barrier Reef it means: 4 Food, 2 Gold, 2 Hammers and 4 Science PER TILE!

Having worked those + college i needed just like 2-3 Turns per tech and i was getting bored so i gave up.

Perhaps Spain is a little overpowered?? Fountain of youth would yield 20(!!!) happiness. Even if u happen to get this japanese mountain (which name i forgot right now) u will get 10 culture per round when worked! Old faithful would give u 6 hammers i think How strong is that in the beginning??

 

[Samuil]

I am playing the Incas atm...
well, unique init is weak...
Unique ability is ok...
Terrace farms are great if you have a lot of hills and mountains (which I got)...
One hill tile surrounded by 3 or 4 mountain tiles provides 5 food... not bad

 

[spfun]

If you found 2 early for 1k gold then the games probably over at that point, i guess thats op. But only if that situation occurs. In many cases she has no ability, because you didn't start near any natural wonders.

100% luck based nation... hot or cold, no in between.