Islands give Finns Lisabon treaty problem

[Winner]

we would if there would be some other way

Sounds like a terrorist logic (no offense). "I can't find other way, so I'll take few innocent hostages, threaten to kill them and I'll get what I want."

Wonderful. The problem is that such a behaviour usually leads to very dire consequences.

 

[Winner]

First of all: Opposing Lisbon does not equal hating the EU

Secondly: in all the plebiscites and votes where the populatio were allowed a vote, how many countries ratified the original Eu constitution?
Because I distinctly remember it being rejected by the Dutch and the french amongst others.

Spoiler :

Preemptive spoiler

your answer is going to be how everyone who voted against it is a moron

How many of those voted agaisnt the Treaty because of the Treaty? Tiny minority.

Most of those "naysayers" voted no because they wanted to punish the national government for something - just like the Aalanders.

 

[crabapple]

Sounds like a terrorist logic (no offense). "I can't find other way, so I'll take few innocent hostages, threaten to kill them and I'll get what I want."

Wonderful. The problem is that such a behaviour usually leads to very dire consequences.

uh uh uh .. I think we leave that discussion now

 

[nonconformist]

How many of those voted agaisnt the Treaty because of the Treaty? Tiny minority.

Most of those "naysayers" voted no because they wanted to punish the national government for something - just like the Aalanders.

No, they opposed it because it fundementally contradicted their ideologies, and because the trety is composed of a lot of incomprehensible jargon that noone could decipher in what way it would make their lives worse.

 

[RedRalph]

No, they opposed it because it fundementally contradicted their ideologies, and because the trety is composed of a lot of incomprehensible jargon that noone could decipher in what way it would make their lives worse.

No, they didnt noncon. Winner knowws why they voted, and it was becausea) they were stupid or b) they didnt actully dislike the treaty but because they were misled etc...

 

[Winner]

uh uh uh .. I think we leave that discussion now

Sorry if that's too harh on you, but you have to admit it's like that. Because you can't solve your problems with the central gov., you're dragging innocent bystanders into it, taking them as hostage hoping you'll force the government to comply.

Again, do you think such thing is right, fair and just?

 

[crabapple]

Sorry if that's too harh on you, but you have to admit it's like that. Because you can't your problems with the central gov., you're dragging innocent bystanders into it, taking them as hostage hoping you'll force the government to comply.

Agaim do you think such thing is right, fair and just?

not in the slightest, but that might happen becouse most people on Aland, see this as their chance to make their voice heard. I want have a voice heard in the EU but not in this way.

 

[Winner]

No, they opposed it because it fundementally contradicted their ideologies,

Only a tiny fraction of them, as the polls show.

and because the trety is composed of a lot of incomprehensible jargon that noone could decipher in what way it would make their lives worse.

In other words, they vote against not because of the things included in the treaty (how could they if they have no idea what it is). Instead of analysing the treaty, evaluating the proposed measuers and making an opinion based on such evaluation, they vote against for reasons partially or completely unrelated to the treaty.

 

[Winner]

not in the slightest, but that might happen becouse most people on Aland, see this as their chance to make their voice heard. I want have a voice heard in the EU but not in this way.

Great, so don't do this I am saying that making others to listen to you this way is actually the worst thing you could possibly do.

 

[nonconformist]

So instead the governments force an unelected treaty upon a population.

Winner, I thought that as someone living in a ex-soviet colony you'd be more appreciative of this wonderful thing we have in the west called....."democracy"

 

[aronnax]

So how small is small enough not to care?

30,000 people out of 500 million?
300,000 people out of 500 million?
3 million out of 500 million?
30 million out of 500 million?

 

[jessiecat]

I look forward to the day, following our successful invasion of Sark, when I
as Foriegn Minister will renegotiate the Treaty on behalf of our liberated people.

 

[Riffraff]

Secondly: in all the plebiscites and votes where the populatio were allowed a vote, how many countries ratified the original Eu constitution?
Because I distinctly remember it being rejected by the Dutch and the french amongst others.

I'm not aware of a country within the EU in which the population doesn't vote for its representatives. So the answer would be - well all the countries that ratified it...

 

[Winner]

So instead the governments force an unelected treaty upon a population.

Winner, I thought that as someone living in a ex-soviet colony you'd be more appreciative of this wonderful thing we have in the west called....."democracy"

Governments do that all the time, it's their job - is there a referendum about every single law your parliament approves in your country? I doubt so. Is there a referendum about every treate your parliament approves? No, there isn't.

Is this case different? No, it's not

 

[nonconformist]

Yes it is, because it's a thinly veiled rehash of a "constitution" that was rejected.

I guess this jsut means that increasingly euro-skeptic parties will get elected which will eventually lead to the complete fragmentation of the EU.

 

[Winner]

Yes it is, because it's a thinly veiled rehash of a "constitution" that was rejected.

I guess this jsut means that increasingly euro-skeptic parties will get elected which will eventually lead to the complete fragmentation of the EU.

Only in your wild fantasies...

 

[nonconformist]

Only in your wild fantasies...

care to troll more?

I'm one of the most pro-EU people out there, and, what's more, both my homelands have been members since before I was born, so of course i only want what's best for it.

 

[Winner]

care to troll more?

I'm one of the most pro-EU people out there, and, what's more, both my homelands have been members since before I was born, so of course i only want what's best for it.

You're not pro-EU, otherwise you'd support the Lisbon treaty. It's pretty simple, actually.

Perhaps you support some kind of European organization resembling the EU in function, but let's not claim you support the EU itself - you don't act like that.

 

[nonconformist]

You're not pro-EU, otherwise you'd support the Lisbon treaty. It's pretty simple, actually.

Perhaps you support some kind of European organization resembling the EU in function, but let's not claim you support the EU itself - you don't act like that.

Winner, most of the opponests of Lisbon here are pro-EU, so don't you tell us we're not pro-EU, Lisbon is jsut not in our best interests.

 

[Winner]

If you think so you're not pro-EU, so stop pretending you are

It's like "Yes, I support gay marriage, I just don't think that gays should be allowed to marry each other..."