Isolated emperor start

[Mutineer]

Actially I made a few mistakes playing fast.
Like I forgot to revolt to org religion.
I can run bigger capital because I was mach more gentle with forests.
I did not whipe because I do not need to and there really not to mach food in cities.
Tes, I used fogbusting, not that all around like you. My scouts were fogbusing south, because it was safe, they cover every tie south.
Nogth I had warrior on forested hill as a magnet and little fogbust and chariot in capital for emergency.
I lost 3 warriors alltogether I think explore and to lucky archer.
I build city south by reason that I did not need to have any mil units to do that.
In addition the fact that I took Monerchy from Oracle let me develop wines.

Domination is a good target, should be posible.
We do have some problems. Our continen is small (size of Australia in RL I think). It generally production poor and health seems to be a problem. Coastal cities can live with out it, as sea food avalible, but inland capital is a bit taxed.

Well, having all wanders in one city has it's advantages and disadvantages.

Advantages:
I have a lot of GP points with out running single specialist. Food source are disperce and I do not see how I can have so specialise GP farm. Capital does need all food excess it can have just for grow.
Disadvantages:
I do not have that mach controll on GP I generate.
Priest that sit in capital is actially second gp. I probably will use it to speed up divine rigth.

 

[shyuhe]

nuts, I found this thread a day too late. I have a vicious start position that I could have contributed to the effort I haven't looked at the save from this start, but the start that I have is waaaaaaay brutal for an emperor game. Feel free to give it a shot if you have a chance snaaty - I'd be curious to know how you do.

Enough thread jacking - I will give this a shot tonight or tomorrow night and see where I end up. The first checkpoint is 1AD and then liberalism is the 2nd?

 

[Snaaty]

@ shyuhe:

Yes, first check point is around 1 AD, next when you have lib in (try to post your save(s) before friday, please include a little summary of what you did and why)

Maybe I will have a glance at your start (is it a start?) tomorrow

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@ Mutineer:

"Actially I made a few mistakes playing fast."

That´s why my prefered diff level is emperor... ...I also tend to play a little sloppy, but emperor is still a level where you can live with a mistake here and there

So you are in for domination? I´m also quite optimistic that it will work out.

Main reason why I tend to prefere space-race is the simple fact that the game is played much faster

 

[shyuhe]

yes snaaty, it's a start. It's a MUCH worse position than the start you gave us.

I had to do two takes on this... I forgot about financial cottages on rivers and tanked my economy the first time around (wrong tech order... I normally don't play financial). Second was much better. I feel like Gandhi though... peacefully grabbing all the wonders and religions. *sigh*

Spoiler :

But I missed the GL! Of all the wonders! I built stonehenge, oracled monarchy. Then popped GP for Christianity. I also built the temple of artemis (don't ask me why...) and I also built the parthenon. I'm almost done with the lighthouse and I'm finishing the NE in my capital. I'm about to send out two, probably 2 more after that to finish settling my island. It's not a bad island - plenty of room to grow nice cities. Oddly enough, confucianism hasn't been founded at 1AD in my game... Something bizarre is going on in the outside world.

Oh yeah, here's my tech order and wonders:

Spoiler :

hunting, agriculture, AH, BW, mysticism, wheel, pottery, stonehenge built, poly, preisthood, masonry, oracle built, monarchy, writing, great wall by some other dude, writing, sailing, temple of artemis built, meditation, monotheism, theology (in hindsight, this cost me the GL), alphabet, parthenon built, HG by some other dude, GL by some other dude

 

[Mutineer]

I want to add some points to bouth of you.
You build a combination of temple Of Artemis/Great Ligthouse.

If I did that and intended to do that you migth have better choise to build capital on cost (I consider that, but rejected because at that time I saw tundra and was thinking there is mach of it).

If I build this combuination, I would:
1) do not bother with Colosys. Colosys will prevent you to make full use of this combination.
2) beeline to Col/philosofy for religious purpouses.
3) Avoide Civil service/Cristianity.
4) Beeline to astronomy go from south path.
5) Do early city spamm, so to time of astronomy you have good number of developed cities.

There are advantages to go this way. You can get a big increase in trade income when you get astronomy, and because you will not be huge, you can really use it.

 

[Giaur]

Snaaty: Cities are small, cause Her.Rule has been researched at the same turn. But you are right. I should let them grow as fast as possible. Carthage had population of 8 so I suppose the other cities could have population of 7. Utica (my second city) was relativly small, but I was running there 2 scientists for a long time. Next time I will place at least one farm near every cottage city, just to have my cities bigger. I will look at your save for a while ...

edit: However it would be difficult to have cities bigger. One of my cities had no food resources and oh irony - It was the biggest. The fourth city was found as last and it was producing settler for a while. Utica has been explained. But one farm near every city is to be done next time.

 

[Giaur]

If I did that and intended to do that you migth have better choise to build capital on cost (I consider that, but rejected because at that time I saw tundra and was thinking there is mach of it).

You can always build Palace in desired city later. I did it not once, even on higher levels.

 

[shyuhe]

Yes, the trade bonus once astronomy rolls around is amazing. I took astronomy off of liberalism (1240 AD - slow but I didn't tech trade at all until I got free religion) and was surprised at how much it helped my economy. I don't know how long I can avoid chemistry and corporations though. I beelined the north path as usual, and backfilled the medieval techs with paper and education. I didn't settler spam too fast as I was worried about crashing my economy. I think I settled my last city post-liberalism.

 

[Dirk1302]

Astronomy is awesome for economy, i often delay liberalism researching optics to get this tech.

 

[Snaaty]

@ Mutineer:

Some questions about what you have mentioned in your last post, because I need further input to understand those:

1. When building the ToA and the Lighthouse, why is a costal capital better???

2. Why avoid CS (and Christianity) when building those wonders? Without CS you loose the bureaucracy bonus???

3. Why is the Colossus a bad choise ("Colosys will prevent you to make full use of this combination")?

...

Beeline CoL, lightbulbing Phil (for religion), early Astro and city spam is exactly what I did (or will do in my next turnset, so this points I understood)

Thanks in advance for your response

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@ shyuhe:

I couldn´t open your file because it was telling me some mod-files were missing when I tried

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@ all:

So 2 players already have reached lib, I will upload my progress tonight or tomorrow and I think we could already start the discussion on how to go on post lib (don´t forget to use spoiler tags, because first round (=up to lib) is open till friday)

 

[shyuhe]

snaaty, you need the HOF mod for that save (2.03). I play most of my single player games with the HOF mod since some of the features are nice - like the improved domestic advisor etc.

Sorry about forgetting to use spoiler tags - I was in a hurry posting on my way out the door

 

[Giaur]

I could open your file ;p.

 

[50_dollar_bag]

@ Snaaty - Capitals always get the most lucrative trade routes and is usually your largest city so trade routes are better (bigger city better trade routes) and temple of Artemis plays on that. And coastal cities have better trade routes than inland cities.

 

[Snaaty]

I played quite quick and in one go, so I have no pictures inbetween... ...and when I looked at the save before posting, I feel now that I could have done quite a lot of things better, but the standing is still OK...


So here´s my game up to liberalism:

Spoiler :

I will finish lib quite late (1190 AD and one turn more to go).

Main reason for this is, that I delayed it quite long because I didn’t want to research machinery and optics myself (which I considered as a wrong decision afterwards) and therefore had to wait until I was found to get it in via trade (which took quite long…). I would guess that I waited about 400 years, because after lib was down to one turns, I set research to nationalism (which is already in) and constitution (6 turns missing) and build a second academy with a GS because I had no better plan (next mistake, if I would have lightbulbed printing press, I could now pick democracy as freebee)…

The first nation which found me was the Aztecs in 1140 AD, and I traded machinery for phil. Then came the Persian (I forgot to gift them a tech when I first met them and therefore spoiled the constant +4 on realtions) and the Celts in 1190 AD. I traded in optics, music, world-map and 120 gold with Brennus and research was set to finish liberalism (next turn).

The tech screen looks quite good and we have our first GM already waiting to be sent out (one more is in production and will take another 15 turns, the next GS will take 20 turns). Research is running at 70% but I can increese now to 90% because of the trade income...


1190 AD Trade possibilities:

PIC REMOVED


1190 world map:

PIC REMOVED


My research from 1 AD was set like this:

First I went for currency to increase trade. Then iron working as prerequisite for Compass which allowed me to build the Cartage special building (again for trade). Then CS, paper was lightbulbed, education (partly lightbulbed), then calendar, drama (to build the Globe), then lib (partly lightbulbed) and when lib was down to one turn, nationalism and constitution.

Main focus was to get a decent economy running because production wise our little continent isn’t very impressive…


Our whole conti is settled now (except for two more or less lousy spots for ice-land cities).


Plan from now on is to finish constitution after lib is through (astro as freebee), then trade for banking and switch civics to representation and mercantilism (with specialist micromanagement for about 20 turns to get a better production and to prepare an invasion army.


Since our world looks like one big conti with 5 nations and 2 small ones with one nation each (we and Monty, but I haven´t seen much of his conti so far...) the military plan is simple, if we should really go for domination:

Takeing out Monty with cavalry, muskets and catas. This should be rel. easy, because he is quite backwards in tech, so the attack can still be delayed a little

...

I didn’t micromanage so far and my whipping also wasn’t much planned. Building a second academy wasn’t a too great plan either I reckoned when looking at the save again, because the GS could have been used for better things (like lightbulbing printing press). Still I think that we are in a quite strong position, even with or conti quite poor on food an production.


The general plan I followed in this game goes down again to the usual (or at least to my usual play-style), so you see there isn’t really much difference no matter what start you draw (isolated, continent, pangaea etc…). Only the teching in earlygame varies a little (depending on neighbours and trade situation):

Get a tech lead, prepare an army, do a (short) medieval expansion war with cav (or gren), muskets and catas, get again a techlead and go space-race (or, if you want to spend more time, do an endgame war with a ton of modern armors and go domination…)

The save:

SAVE REMOVED


EDIT:

@ shyuhe:

Spoiler :

I just had a look at your save...

Seems like you haven´t chopped any forests? This is quite impressive, because you have build up more or less the same amount of city infrastructure then I have (and I have chopped everything down)

You have build quite a lot of cottages... ...I still support the opinion, that cottage economy isn´t as strong as FE economy, so I´m curious how we will compare in the next part of the game (and hope to learn a little about using cottages from you)

Also seems like you haven´t whipped that much, so I´m again quite surprised with this fact (and impressed)

So my main question is:

- How do you build up your cities (infrastructure and wonders) that fast without chopping and lots of whipping (I also see that you currently use organized religion, I never use it...)???

...

One very important point:

I´ve seen that most of the other nations dont like you. When you gift every nation you meet at the frist meeting a tech for free before doing anything else, you get a constant +4 on relations. This is EXTREMELY important and helpful and I do it everytime (except when I forget it)

@ all:
When you gift a civ you meet for the first time a tech for free, you get a constant +4 on relations. Always good to remember that when you are playing an isolated start

 

[Mutineer]

@ Mutineer:

Some questions about what you have mentioned in your last post, because I need further input to understand those:

1. When building the ToA and the Lighthouse, why is a costal capital better???

2. Why avoid CS (and Christianity) when building those wonders? Without CS you loose the bureaucracy bonus???

3. Why is the Colossus a bad choise ("Colosys will prevent you to make full use of this combination")?

...

Beeline CoL, lightbulbing Phil (for religion), early Astro and city spam is exactly what I did (or will do in my next turnset, so this points I understood)

Thanks in advance for your response

1). Trade route value for capital has multiplicator to it, do not remmeber how big, 50% or 100% bonus. After you spend your GS on Astronomy you can research CS and use capital benefits to full. Great ligthouse effect only coastal cities.
2). Because CS or Theology open paper, preventing you from using GS to ligtbuld Astronomy pach. if you do not research Meditation you can even close Philosofy. But because of pacifism it probably not a best idea.
3). Because idea is to beeling to astronomy and astronomy cancel colosys. You will not get that big return out of it.

 

[shyuhe]

snaaty,

Spoiler :

I don't know how I managed to get the same production you did... I just adopted HR off the oracle to grow my city. I did whip build a few things early on (like the forge) and I used OR for +25% in all my cities. I normally don't use cottages either, but Hannibal is financial so I just planted cottages on the river (since they start at 3 commerce that way). I may come to regret running my economy on cottages later - I had some serious GP pollution problems. I kept on getting GP instead of GS, which is slowing down my tech rate a lot. In hindsight, I wouldn't have put all those wonders in one city since it messes up the only GP farm I have on the island.

I didn't know about the immediate +4 bonus. Can you still get "you traded with our worst enemy" penalties from civs you haven't met yet if you trade with their worst enemy though? I was holding off on tech trading until I hit free religion (yeah it sucks...) and I was going to ally with the Hindu block in my game. I'm too lazy for a domination win to be honest, so I will probably just beeline MM and get a win that way. The only war I may do is against Monty.

 

[Snaaty]

@ Multineer:

thanks for the info´s, now I understand your points. Btw. I hope you will also play on this game?

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@ shyuhe:

I don´t know either if the penalty "trading with worst enemy" also counts BEFORE you met both of the enemies...

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@ all:

I would only go for a domination win, when at least 2 others play along for domination (I´m also quite lazy). Else I would go for space race (after taking out Monty, of course... ...I somehow like taking out Monty)

 

[futurehermit]

Huh, it's so satisfying taking out Monty...

Snaaty, do you mean you want someone to play some turns on your game, succession game style to help finish a domination victory? I might be up for that...

 

[Snaaty]

Huh, it's so satisfying taking out Monty...

Snaaty, do you mean you want someone to play some turns on your game, succession game style to help finish a domination victory? I might be up for that...

Orginally, I ment that I would like to have somebody to play parallel (sort of psychological assistance, because I´m not really motivated to do a timeconsuming endgame-war), but your idea is even better

So if you like, I will play up to the wars, and you can do them. We even can start with the war against Monty. Do you want to take the save ASAP or should I do the warfare preps??? (you should take a look at the save first and whe should have some discussion on how to go on and to do this war then)

Remember to use spoiler tags when posting any strat things and please do not post a save post-lib before friday, because first round is still open and perhaps some more people like to join in (what I still hope to fuel the discussion some more, because up to here I think I can profite quite a lot from Mutineer & shyuhe games and tips in the future)

 

[Dirk1302]

I'm going to give it a a try tonight so i can post tonight or tomorrow afternoon. Have to read up on isolated start strat though.