Israel !

[boobook]

Hi all,

I know firaxis didn't revealed all new tribes, but one thing i know for sure, Israel have to be included !!!

Israel had, having & will leave its mark on our history. ignoring its major role both at ancient times & at modern time its just a shame. They had contacts with Babylonies, Romans, Greeks, Hitties, the modern cultures & in fact all others...
Leave the politics aside, including the Zulu, Iroquios etc. and ignoring Israel it must be a joke...

BTW i think they should have culture & commerical properties & king Solomon as leader...

Please tell me what u think...

 

[gozpel]

And for the cruel things that happens today, compare that to stuff nations did before. Like Germany, England, Russia, China, Japan, Zulu, Aztecs, Spain, Vikings...the list goes on. Was there ever a great nation/empire that resorted to violence?

If this is the standard to set by ISO9000 then Israel is in, only because the others are. Change the standards and we have to change the nations to Maldives and Canada and so on

 

[Iztvan]

Sure, Israel has made a large contribution to world history.
And we definately need some more Mid East civs for when playing World Maps, the Mid East is almost as empty as western europe!

 

[Black Waltz]

Moderator Action: No nation-bashing, here, please. --Padma
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Ivan the Kulak]

Israel might be interesting as an ancient civ for an ancient times middle east mod, but not in modern times. Israel as it exists today is an anomalous state, artificially hacked into existence and completely dependent on the US for its survival. The only use for a modern Israel would be for a special Mideast war mod.

 

[Sha-Feer]

Originally posted by Ivan the Kulak
Israel might be interesting as an ancient civ for an ancient times middle east mod, but not in modern times. Israel as it exists today is an anomalous state, artificially hacked into existence and completely dependent on the US for its survival. The only use for a modern Israel would be for a special Mideast war mod.

some would not agree

 

[Ivan the Kulak]

Sha - Feer: No, some will not, but even aside from that, Israel has only existed in its modern form for about half a century. There's no real national history there, compared to the Israel of ancient times. It's kind of hard to consider Israel on Civilization type terms, given that huge time gap between its alternate existences.

 

[Highgeneral]

Isreal is a powerful country i look foward to seeing king soloman


i think all the countrys should have a male and female ruler like in civ.2 like for russia catheraine and lenin.


I think Atlantis should also be a new Civ. king Atlas of Atlantis or Queen Atlanta they are a mill. sic.


Ivan the history of isreal is the bible

 

[Sha-Feer]

Originally posted by Ivan the Kulak
Sha - Feer: No, some will not, but even aside from that, Israel has only existed in its modern form for about half a century. There's no real national history there, compared to the Israel of ancient times. It's kind of hard to consider Israel on Civilization type terms, given that huge time gap between its alternate existences.

One question how long has America existed as a "Civilization"? Only a little over 200 years....but you got to start somewhere??

In 1948 Isreal officially became a nation..5 count them 1,2,3,4,5 arab nations declared war on Isreal right after.... Out maned..out gunned....Isreal wooped them all! And had more land after that war than when they started.

We "Americans" stole this land from a bunch of aboriginys who fount us with stick and rocks (they where actually quit good at it mind ya)..need I say more?

 

[Ivan the Kulak]

Point taken, Sha-Feer. But America, if not as an actual nation has been around for about 300 years compared to Israels 1/2 century. I regard all those intractable colonists from pre-revolutionary times to be quite American, also Plus, America is VERY powerful - worlds leading power, huge land area, etc. Israel is quite small and quite new - maybe in 2200 when they release civ42 Israel will make a good modern nation For Conquests, Israel would be good to include in one of the ancient middle east scenarios... as long as they're putting the Hittites in...

 

[marceagleye]

I'd think that David would be their leader instead of Solomon. He slew Goliath as an eight year old boy with a slingshot. The people wanted a king, and the Lord gave them David. Although Solomon's kingdom was the richest in the world up to that time, his father David was was the foundation for Israel's greatness.

 

[Sha-Feer]

Originally posted by Ivan the Kulak
Point taken, Sha-Feer. But America, if not as an actual nation has been around for about 300 years compared to Israels 1/2 century.

The point is, America isn't the only CIV in CIV3, where are all the other CIVs that are in CIV3? Where are the Zulus? The Greeks? The Romans? The Aztecs? The others. Their CIVs died out..who knows America could die out in a hundred years. Ancient Isreal was onec a pretty strong Nation, but they got whipped good, but where are they now..they came back. And they are still kicken as appose to most of the other CIVs in CIV3. So for to be in Sid Myers Civilization you dont have to even exist as a CIV today it seems. What do you have to do? Ask Sid..he knows.

 

[pooki]

`Sha-Feer,

There was no way i could put it better then u...
Thanks for the support...

Yea Israel is the OLDEST civilization STILL EXIST on our world, i bet it means somthing...doesn't it.....?!

 

[pooki]

Another thing Ivan the Kulak is that ....

There were times which the USA didn't support Israel much... for example at the 60's where the French helped the Israelies but all of the sudden about the year of 67 they did weapons emebargo... Further more 6 arab armies were gathering on its borders...waiting to smash it to it's final death...
fewer at manpower 10 to 1, fewer at armament & armed with self made weapons the Israelies attacked first and smashed them all at 6 DAYS !!!
This was called the SIX DAYS WAR of 67

Just for your knowledge!

 

[Sha-Feer]

Yeah Pooki, all if you have to do is read about it in an encyclopedia. Hey I got a niece named pooki, neat

 

[Ivan the Kulak]

Sha-Feer: I guess my uptake on the whole thing is that Israel just impresses me as a minor civ - Israel is not the only one by any means - other examples would include some of the other older civs - Hittites, Zulus, etc. Despite its colorful history Israel did end up being just another Roman province and when they revolted Rome simply stepped on them, like the Spanish did to the Aztecs.

Eventually there will be enough civilizations that some will be made just to include in scenarios - As I said before, Israel would fit very nicely into an ancient middle eastern mod.

I tend to divide civilizations into Alpha and Beta civs - to be an Alpha civ it must at one time have possessed continental or globe spanning power. Examples would include Rome, for obvious reasons, the Mongols (short lived, but boy did they conquer and pillage), the Arabs in the Dark Ages (They did control a great deal of territory then), and of course China, and the US in the 20th century.

Perhaps the reason Israel has never been in the civ series yet is simply because the issue is so politically and religiously charged -witness the posts in this thread Although, come to think of it they did put the Hebrews in CTP.

 

[Louis XXIV]

I think Israel is a great choice for a civ (if not in the regular game, at least in the Mesopotamian scenario)

 

[Sha-Feer]

Ivan: Yeah your take on the alpha civ seems the way they look at it. If the Civ at least was in power for a good bit of time then it gets attention. The Isrealite people have been scatterd so much and all over the place, but its amazing none the less how they are still around.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

I think they should be included in the game. In fact, my "house rules" mod includes an Israelite civ. Their UU is the Maccabee (available on this site), which has identical stats to the swordsman, but can be built by the Israelites at the beginning of the game and do not require iron. There's plenty of leaderheads to choose from, and I use Piernik's "Atlas" leaderhead for the Prophet Moses, the Israel leader in my mod.
BTW, just chose Moses 'cos I really liked Piernik's leaderhead and could think of no-one who the leaderhead suited better than Moses. I don't want to start a "he's not the right choice of leader" thread.

 

[Iztvan]

I think there are three reasons nations become included in Civ, in order of importance:
1. Fame
2. Computer games market share
3. Regional representation/filling in the map

Well, Israel is in a tight spot in "3", but otherwise they are ok. I mean, who hasn't heard of Israel? And they have been present both in the ancient age and in the modern age. If you can have Carthage?
And culturaly? What would the religious landscape of N & S America, most of Africa, the whole of Europe and about half of Asia be without Israel/Jews?
This small people has had a significant effect on world history!

Originally posted by pooki
`Sha-Feer,

There was no way i could put it better then u...
Thanks for the support...

Yea Israel is the OLDEST civilization STILL EXIST on our world, i bet it means somthing...doesn't it.....?!

Oldest? Err, China? India?