[C3C] Civilization Reborn - gameplay balance mod

drmihnea

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Gameplay balance mod by Mihnea

I have always been intrigued by the prospect of playing Civilization III Conquests with small, but meaningful, tweaks, resulting in an improved experience.

In performing this work, I have found inspiration in the sources below. I would like to express my sincere gratitude to their contributors.
- the CivFanatics website, both the Civilization III forums and the War Academy articles
- the Patch suggestion CivFanatics forum threads created by player1 fanatic
- An Intro To & An Encyclopedia Of Modding CivFanatics forum thread created by Ozymandias
- suggestions provided by CivFanatics user timerover51
- Suede CivIII YouTube channel
- Sulla's Civilization III articles

To play the mod, unzip the content of the attached zip archive to the Scenarios folder within your Civilization III Conquests installation.

For the best playing experience, it is recommended to also use Flintlock's C3X Release 16 mod with its default settings. Many thanks to Flintlock for implementing and maintaining this wonderful mod.

I would be grateful for feedback about this balance mod, which would help me update and improve it.


Miscellaneous changes

- Added Worker to the Build Often category for all civilizations to support the AI at having more workers available.

- Added Foot Unit flag to Settler, Worker, Scout, Explorer, Leader and all of the King units to correct the developer oversight when setting these units' properties.

- Added Airlift flag to Settler, Scout, Explorer, Catapult, Trebuchet, Korean Hwach'a, Cannon, Artillery, Radar Artillery, Leader and all of the King units to normalize the use of this flag across all units.

- Removed Explore ability from the non-combatant units Settler, Worker, Catapult, Trebuchet, Korean Hwach'a, Cannon, Artillery, Radar Artillery, Tactical Nuke and Leader, since their non-combatant status makes it hazardous for these units to be exploring.

- Changed Wealth conversion ratio of shields to gold from 4-to-1 to 2-to-1 and from 2-to-1 to 1-to-1 with the discovery of Economics. This offers the player greater flexibility by turning the building of Wealth into a legitimate production option, whether for promoting scientific research, or simply for accumulating gold.

- Reduced Maximum Research Time in turns from 50 to 40. This reverts the setting from Conquests to vanilla and facilitates low research strategies for the player.

- Increased Forest Value in Shields from 10 to 20. This makes chopping forests in the Ancient Era impactful to city production.

- Reduced Worker Jobs' turns to complete for Plant Forest from 18 to 12, Clear Wetlands from 16 to 8 and Clear Damage from 24 to 12. This improves gameplay by mitigating the negative effects of a starting location with abundant Jungle or Marsh terrain, balancing forest clearing and forest planting and reducing the effort to clear pollution.

- Changed Optimal Number of Cities for World Sizes as follows: 14 to 21 for Tiny, 17 to 26 for Small, 20 to 30 for Standard, 28 to 42 for Large and 36 to 54 for Huge. This applies a multiplication factor of 1.5 to the previous values and improves gameplay by reducing the devastating effects of corruption as civilizations expand.

- Increased Golden Age and Scientific Golden Age duration from 20 to 40 turns. This makes the effects of Golden Ages more pronounced, for both the player and the AI.

- Improved spacing and paragraphing in the Civilopedia text.


Ancient Era changes

- Decreased the shield cost of Mayan Javelin Thrower from 30 to 25. Its previous high cost made this unit as expensive as the Swordsman, while having weaker stats.

- Added Ignore Move Cost of Jungle, Forest, Marsh and Volcano to the Incan Chasqui Scout. This makes the unit ignore all higher move costs, thus justifying its double cost, compared to the Scout.

- Added Offense flag to Sumerian Enkidu Warrior, since the unit replaces both Warrior and Spearman.

- Removed Offense flag from Zulu Impi and replaced its upgrade path to Musketman with upgrade path to Pikeman. This ensures the AI regards it as a defensive unit and acknowledges that the defense stat of Zulu Impi is not sufficient to allow its use as a mobile escort in the early Medieval Era.

- Added Defense flag to Babylonian Bowman. This encourages the AI to use the unit as a general-purpose one in the early Ancient Era.

- Removed upgrade path of Horseman to Hittite Three-Man Chariot to simplify unit upgrade chains.

- Removed upgrade path of Roman Legionary and Celtic Gallic Swordsman to Medieval Infantry, making them instead obsolete by Rifleman and removed access to Medieval Infantry for the Romans and the Celts. This reflects the unique units replacing both Swordsman and Medieval Infantry, as it was implemented for the Persians, thus granting uniqueness to the gameplay of these civilizations.

- Removed upgrade path of Persian Immortals to Guerilla, making them instead obsolete by Rifleman. This is done for both historical realism, as well as improved gameplay balance.

- Renamed Ancient Cavalry to Companion Cavalry to fit in better with history.

- Removed Naval Power flag from Curragh and added Transport Capacity of 1 and Naval Transport flag to it. This makes unit transportation over the sea available with Alphabet, instead of Map Making, albeit at half the capacity.

- Changed the stats of Galley from 1-1-3 to 2-2-3 and added Naval Power flag to it. This reflects its significantly higher combat capability when compared to the Curragh and encourages the AI to engage Galleys and Byzantine Dromons in combat.

- Changed the stats of Byzantine Dromon from 2-1-3 to 2-2-3 to balance the increased stats of the Galley.

- Added Wheeled flag to Curragh, Galley and Byzantine Dromon to deny them the ability to enter Ocean tiles. This improves historical realism, as Galleys were notorious for being unstable in anything but the calmest of seas. The change is disregarded when running the game with Flintlock's C3X Release 16 mod, however the player can use the house rule of not entering Ocean tiles with any of these ships.

- Removed upgrade path of Galley and Byzantine Dromon to Caravel, making them instead obsolete by Frigate and English Man-O-War. This reflects the units being used historically well into the late Medieval Era, albeit featuring significant evolutions compared to the Ancient Era Galleys.

- Renamed the Colosseum building to Amphitheater and reduced its shield cost from 120 to 90. This is done to better represent it as a universal, rather than specific, building, to increase the likelihood of it being used by the player and to normalize its shield cost to half of the shield cost sum of Temple and Cathedral.

- Removed the happy citizens scaling due to luxury resources from the Marketplace building and reduced its shield cost from 100 to 80. This creates new gameplay opportunities by ensuring the player has to actually manage citizen happiness, instead of simply building the Marketplace and securing every luxury resource.

- Decreased the shield cost of Courthouse from 80 to 60 to encourage it being built by the player.

- Changed The Statue of Zeus wonder to be made obsolete by Chivalry, instead of Metallurgy, improving historical accuracy. This will reduce the previously excessive power of the wonder and allow for an interesting judgment call on the part of the player, whether or not to postpone getting Chivalry to prolong the lifetime of Companion Cavalry.

- Decreased the shield cost of The Oracle wonder from 300 to 200, since previously its cost was exceedingly high for the advantage provided, especially when compared to the 300-shield cost of The Hanging Gardens wonder.

- Renamed The Mausoleum of Mausollos wonder to The Mausoleum at Halicarnassus to correct the duplication in meaning.

- Decreased the shield cost of The Temple of Artemis wonder from 500 to 400 and made it obsolete by Theology, instead of Education. This improves historicity and enhances game balance.


Medieval Era changes

- Changed the stats of Medieval Infantry from 4-2-1 to 3-3-1 and added Defense flag to it. This makes the unit a general-purpose one, highlights the unique units of the Romans, the Celts and the Persians and improves game balance around the other early Medieval Era units, such as Knight and Longbowman.

- Removed upgrade path of Medieval Infantry, Longbowman and Viking Berserk to Guerilla, making them instead obsolete by Rifleman. This is done for both historical realism, as well as improved gameplay balance.

- Removed upgrade path of Musketman to Dutch Swiss Mercenary and removed access to Musketman for the Dutch. There is no need for the Dutch to have a unit available that is similar to their unique unit and removing this upgrade path simplifies unit upgrade chains.

- Decreased the shield cost of Musketman and French Musketeer from 60 to 45. The previous high cost, double that of Pikeman, ensured these units remained largely unused by the player.

- Removed Offense flag from French Musketeer. This was a developer oversight, when updating the unit's stats from 3-4-1 in vanilla to 2-5-1 in Conquests.

- Added defensive bombard stats of 2-0-1 to Mongol Keshik. This adds distinctiveness to the unit's gameplay in accordance with its history.

- Decreased the shield cost of Spanish Conquistador from 70 to 60. The previous cost was too high, considering the unit's niche utility.

- Changed the technological availability of Korean Hwach'a from Metallurgy to Chemistry. This reflects the unit not requiring the strategic resource Iron and overall enhances Korean gameplay.

- Removed access to Cannon for the Koreans, since they already have their Cannon-like unique unit Hwach'a.

- Increased the shield cost of Cavalry from 80 to 90, of Russian Cossack from 90 to 100 and of Ottoman Sipahi from 100 to 110 and made them obsolete by Tank and German Panzer. The previous low cost and unrestricted availability of the most popular late Medieval Era units allowed them to be upgraded en masse from Knights, effortlessly transforming a Knight-based force into a Cavalry-based one to be used with impunity even into the Modern Era.

- Increased the Portuguese Carrack transport capacity from 3 to 4 and made it upgrade directly to Transport, while removing Galleon for the Portuguese. This grants the Portuguese a better and cheaper unit than Galleon ahead of time.

- Changed the stats of Frigate from 2-2-5 to 3-3-5, English Man-O-War from 4-2-5 to 4-4-5 and shield cost from 65 to 60 and Privateer from 2-1-5 to 3-2-5 to balance the increased stats of the Galley and Byzantine Dromon.

- Made Frigate, English Man-O-War and Privateer obsolete by Ironclad. This is done for both historical realism, as well as improved gameplay balance.

- Decreased the shield cost of Cathedral from 160 to 120. This achieves a 2-to-1 shield cost ratio to Temple and makes it more likely to be built by the player.

- Decreased the shield cost of University from 200 to 160. This achieves a 2-to-1 shield cost ratio to Library and makes it more likely to be built by the player.

- Removed the Coastal Fortress building, since it was bugged, thus having no effect in the game.

- Removed the ability of Military Academy small wonder to allow the creation of armies without using a Leader and decreased its shield cost from 400 to 200. This ensures the game remains challenging into the Industrial and Modern Eras for a warmonger player.

- Changed Knights Templar wonder to be made obsolete by Military Tradition, instead of Steam Power, improving historical accuracy. This will allow for an interesting judgment call on the part of the player, whether or not to postpone getting Military Tradition to prolong the lifetime of Crusader.

- Changed Feudalism's unit cost from 3 to 2, since previously Feudalism was an unappealing government that the player never used, except in highly specific circumstances.

- Made Printing Press a required technology for Era Advancement to acknowledge its importance to history and to ensure communication trading is available to both the player and the AI by the end of the Medieval Era.


Industrial Era changes

- Decreased the shield cost of Rifleman from 80 to 70 to balance the lower shield cost of Musketman and French Musketeer.

- Decreased the shield cost of Guerilla from 90 to 80 to allow asymmetric warfare with a cheaper unit, requiring no resources, that can still stand a chance against superior forces.

- Increased the shield cost of Tank and German Panzer from 100 to 120. The previous low cost of these very popular late-game units allowed for an over-abundance of them.

- Removed Offense flag from Paratrooper and added Defense flag to it, as the unit's stats are defensive in nature.

- Added Wheeled flag to Artillery, since, historically, Industrial Era Artillery used wheels with tires, rather than tracks.

- Changed Ironclad stats from 5-6-3 to 6-6-5 and removed its upgrade path to Destroyer, making it instead obsolete by Battleship. This makes the unit more attractive to the player, both in terms of improved stats and extended availability and is in line with its historical development.

- Changed Destroyer bombard stats from 6-1-2 to 8-1-2, Cruiser bombard stats from 7-1-2 to 10-1-2 and Battleship bombard stats from 8-2-2 to 12-2-2. This harmonizes the combat ships' bombard damage with the Artillery bombard damage of 12.

- Increased movement stat of Destroyer from 8 to 12, Cruiser from 6 to 12, Carrier from 7 to 12 and Battleship from 5 to 10. This amends the units' movement according to their historical capability.

- Removed upgrade path of Cruiser to AEGIS Cruiser, since the historical purpose of AEGIS Cruiser was different from that of Cruiser.

- Increased Submarine movement stat from 4 to 6 and added Hidden Nationality flag to it. This improves historicity and allows for enhanced naval gameplay in the late Industrial Era and early Modern Era. The change bypasses the submarine bug, which is fixed when running the game with Flintlock's C3X Release 16 mod.

- Changed Fighter bombard stats from 3-0-1 to 4-0-1 to marginally increase its bombing efficacy.

- Removed Lethal Land Bombardment from Bomber and increased its shield cost from 100 to 120. The previous low cost and self-sufficiency of this very popular late-game unit discouraged a combined arms approach and encouraged the player to over-rely on it.

- Decreased the shield cost of Police Station from 160 to 120 and changed its prerequisite technology from Communism to Nationalism. This improves historical accuracy, decouples the building from a government the player may not intend to research and use and encourages it being built by the player.

- Decreased pollution for Iron Works from 4 to 2, for Factory and Coal Plant from 2 to 1 and for Commercial Dock and Airport from 1 to 0. This reduces the excessive effects of pollution in the late Industrial Era and Modern Era.

- Added the prerequisite technology of Nationalism to The Pentagon small wonder to tie large armies to the concept of nationhood, disallow fielding four-unit armies ahead of time and improve game balance.

- Renamed Secret Police HQ small wonder to Secret Service HQ, changed its prerequisite technology from Espionage to Nationalism and removed its government prerequisite. This allows an additional corruption reduction mechanism to be available to all governments, thus reducing the excessive advantage Communism had over all of the other governments in terms of corruption mitigation.

- Decreased the shield cost of Longevity wonder from 1000 to 800 and changed its prerequisite technology from Genetics to Sanitation. This moves the wonder one era earlier where its impact is more strongly felt, normalizes its shield cost with the other wonders of the era and provides an additional incentive for researching the optional technology Sanitation.

- Changed Fascism's Hurry Method from Forced Labor to Pay Citizens, since, unlike in Communism, Fascist governments allowed free enterprise, albeit, in many instances, tied to the government. This improves game balance by providing an Industrial Era government that is sufficiently distinct in characteristics from Communism.

- Made Nationalism a required technology for Era Advancement to improve historical accuracy and highlight its importance to the gameplay.


Modern Era changes

- Increased the shield cost of Mechanized Infantry from 110 to 120 to account for its significantly higher stats compared to Infantry.

- Decreased the shield cost of TOW Infantry from 120 to 110 to allow asymmetric warfare with a cheaper unit, requiring no resources, that can still stand a chance against superior forces.

- Changed Modern Armor stats from 24-16-3 to 24-12-3 and increased the unit's shield cost from 120 to 140 to maintain the 2-to-1 offense-to-defense ratio of Tank and Panzer, emphasize the defensive role of Mechanized Infantry and TOW Infantry and balance the higher shield cost of Tank and Panzer.

- Removed Offense flag from Modern Paratrooper and added Defense flag to it, as the unit's stats are defensive in nature.

- Decreased Cruise Missile shield cost from 60 to 50 to have it as half the cost of Jet Fighter and American F-15.

- Increased AEGIS Cruiser movement stat from 7 to 12, changed its bombard stats from 6-2-2 to 6-1-2 and increased the unit's Anti-Air Defense from 3 to 4. This adjusts the unit to better fit in with its historical purpose as an anti-air defender.

- Changed Nuclear Submarine stats from 8-4-5 to 12-6-9, increased the unit's shield cost from 140 to 150 and added Hidden Nationality flag to it. This improves historicity, allows for enhanced naval gameplay in the Modern Era and justifies the shield cost difference of 50, when compared to Submarine. The change bypasses the submarine bug, which is fixed when running the game with Flintlock's C3X Release 16 mod.

- Changed Jet Fighter bombard stats from 3-0-1 to 6-0-1 and American F-15 bombard stats from 6-0-2 to 8-0-2 to marginally increase their bombing efficacy.

- Changed Stealth Fighter bombard stats from 6-0-2 to 8-0-2 to marginally increase its bombing efficacy and keep it synchronized with the American F-15.

- Removed Lethal Land Bombardment from Stealth Fighter and Stealth Bomber. The previous self-sufficiency of these units, especially the Stealth Bomber, discouraged a combined arms approach and encouraged the player to over-rely on them.

- Decreased pollution for Offshore Platform and Manufacturing Plant from 2 to 1 and for Research Lab from 1 to 0. This reduces the excessive effects of pollution in the Modern Era.

- Changed Cure for Cancer wonder from making one to making two unhappy citizens content. At the very late stage in the game this wonder is made available and considering its high cost, the previous benefits of the wonder were underwhelming.
 

Attachments

  • Civilization Reborn.zip
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If I may, I'd humbly suggest having a look through, "An Intro To & An Encyclopedia Of Modding." Its basis was the old "Apolyton University Mod," a community effort, with the same goals as yours, and led by one of the game's devs (alexman), plus a healthy dose of commentary from a tester called Sulla's thrown in.

- And, with that being said, your own work looks very, very good. :cooool:

:D
 
A lot of your changes I have already done, one being tying the Pentagon to Nationalism. One you did not mention as having made was changing the Printing Press from "not required for era advancement" to a required technology. Try to envision the changes in Europe from 1500 to 1800 without the printing press.
 
Thanks timerover51 for your suggestion! :)

It was quite easy to overlook Printing Press, as there was no gameplay balancing action to be taken about it, although, I fully agree, its historical importance cannot be downplayed.

I'll make the technology mandatory for era advancement with the next iteration of the mod.
 
- Removed upgrade path of Galley and Byzantine Dromon to Caravel, making them instead obsolete by Frigate and English Man-O-War. This reflects the units being used historically well into the late Medieval Era, as well as keeping their identity, as both naval transport and power, longer, for gameplay purposes.
The Dromon essentially vanished following the capture of Constantinople by the 4th Crusade in 1204. After that, any seapower of the Byzantines was based on vessels supplied by the various Italian city-states with galley fleets.
As for the late Medieval Galley, that was far removed from the Ancient Era galley. The late Medieval galley was far larger, and carried far more men that the ancient galley. Don Juan of Austria's flag galley at the Battle of Lepanto carried in addition to its normal crew 400 Spanish musketeers, along with 5 bow cannon, and no capability of ramming a ship underwater. They were both rowed, aside from that, they were completely different. The Age of Discovery (World Map) scenario has some good Medieval Galleys. The ancient galley made for a very poor transport because of its very limited capacity for food and water storage.

Made Frigate, English Man-O-War and Privateer obsolete by Destroyer. This is done for both historical realism, as well as improved gameplay balance.
The Destroyer came into existence in the 1890s to counter the development of the very small torpedo boat in attacking ships. It was originally called the torpedo-boat destroyer, and as it grew large and more seaworthy, the destroyer of torpedo-boat destroyers, which was shorter to just Destroyer. It also took over the role of the torpedo boat in attacking larger ships with torpedoes. The German Navy's destroyer-sized ships in the First World War were called torpedo boats, not destroyer.

The Frigate evolved into the Cruiser, being intended as a scouting ship, protector from enemy raiding ships, and ship of force in areas not requiring an Ironclad. It had no connection with the Destroyer. The English Man-of-War evolved into the Ship of the Line, which in turn evolved into the Ironclad. Indeed, some of the early English Ironclads were built by taking wooden ships of the line that were being built, lengthening them to take larger engines, and adding iron armor to them. The correct progression should be Man-of-War to Ironclad to Battleship.

I have discussed the bombardment values of aircraft and battleships in the following thread.
A World War Two destroyer would typically mount between 4 to 6 guns of approximately 5 inch in caliber, with a shell weight on the order of 50 pounds. A World War Two U.S. Navy battleship of the North Carolina, South Dakota, and Iowa class mounted nine 16 inch guns, firing a High Explosive shell weight 1900 pounds and an Armor-piercing shell weighing 2700 pounds. In addition, they had secondary batteries of twenty 5 inch guns, except for the South Dakota which carried 16 to allow for additional space to function as a Fleet Flagship. The battleship had far more firepower than a destroyer.

As for the Aegis, it mounts a single 5 inch/54 caliber gun with a limited amount of ammunition. The World War Two destroyer had far more bombardment capacity than an Aegis ship. Their primary function is long-range surface to air missile defense of a task force. Using them for shore bombardment is basically a waste of the ship.

With respect to ship speed, the standard game is horribly out of whack. The ancient galley had a sustained cruising speed of 3 knots, and could make a much as 11 knots for a period of 20 minutes, as which point the rowers were exhausted. A transport ship will typically cruise at 15 knots, and the very large cruise ships will typically make about 20 knots.

U.S. Navy World War Two era ships were built to cruise at 20 knots, with the top speeds for the carriers, cruisers, destroyers, and the Iowa-class battleship on the order of 32 or more knots. They also had far more range than the ancient galley, as well as much better seaworthiness. I give the galley a 3 for movement, but the carrier, cruiser, and destroyer a movement of 12 (it actually should be higher, but unless you are on a very large water map, the increased movement becomes a little ridiculous). Battleships get a movement of 10, as the Iowa-class ships were unique in their high speed. Twenty-seven to thirty knots were more normal for ships built in the 1930s.

It is your mod, and you can do whatever you want with it.
 
Thank you very much for your thorough explanation of navies throughout history, timerover51! :)

I'll have to think of a way of implementing the proposed changes, such that proper game balance is ensured.
 
"Balanced Game Play" is perhaps the most important and difficult aspects of creating a Game.

Balanced Game Play must have intermittent imbalances on all sides throughout the Game to be Balanced because IF all sides were absolutely Equal there would be no Winner... a "Stale Mate"

I think of it as multiple areas where one or more opponents have the ability to advance stronger than the others. This can be obvious or complex and it also adds to the Player's satisfaction to solve the intermittent difficulties.

Sort of like having "Many Battles" to have success with before one can Win in the end.

I have found that each thing that is "adjusted" or changed will affect the AI and Game Play much more than expected.
It all Requires a Great Deal of overall Game Play testing as it is all adjusted, especially concerning the AI in the Civ Game.

How one achieves a "Balanced Game" will differ between creators and will be liked or disliked due to individual preferences because like Beauty, it is also in the eyes of the beholder...subjective.

I do like "Plausible Reality" within the realm of the game and solving the intermittent difficulties along the way to the end enhances Game play Fun because that allows players to solve problems their way for more satisfaction.

All Games require a learning curve to gain knowledge and understanding to play well. If the game is made too difficult to learn or too easy to play, it will probably not be played much. Challenging, yes, Almost impossible, no.

Pleasing everyone with how a Game is "Balanced" is not possible. That said, there are universal aspects of how a Game is Balanced that are more acceptable and pleasing.
A well Balanced Game provides the player the ability to deal with the situations that happen without having to be equal to opponents in all ways... allow for multiple methods to defend and advance.

Winning in the end of a Game is generally satisfying but multiple wins toward that goal enhance the game overall... many ways to win or lose requires knowledge and understanding of the game.
Everyone wants to feel that their method of playing a Game is Best, at least for them. This is why it is important to allow for many individual Game Play styles and approaches to win. Not too easy and not overwhelmingly difficult.

Bottom Line: A Balanced Game must have imbalances to create challenges throughout the Game.
 
The late Medieval galley was far larger, and carried far more men that the ancient galley. Don Juan of Austria's flag galley at the Battle of Lepanto carried in addition to its normal crew 400 Spanish musketeers, along with 5 bow cannon, and no capability of ramming a ship underwater. They were both rowed, aside from that, they were completely different. The Age of Discovery (World Map) scenario has some good Medieval Galleys.
Would these not then have been considered "galleases?"
The Destroyer came into existence in the 1890s to counter the development of the very small torpedo boat in attacking ships. It was originally called the torpedo-boat destroyer, and as it grew large and more seaworthy, the destroyer of torpedo-boat destroyers, which was shorter to just Destroyer. It also took over the role of the torpedo boat in attacking larger ships with torpedoes. The German Navy's destroyer-sized ships in the First World War were called torpedo boats, not destroyer.
"Torpedo Boat Destroyers?"
The Frigate evolved into the Cruiser, being intended as a scouting ship, protector from enemy raiding ships, and ship of force in areas not requiring an Ironclad. It had no connection with the Destroyer. The English Man-of-War evolved into the Ship of the Line, which in turn evolved into the Ironclad. Indeed, some of the early English Ironclads were built by taking wooden ships of the line that were being built, lengthening them to take larger engines, and adding iron armor to them. The correct progression should be Man-of-War to Ironclad to Battleship.

A World War Two destroyer would typically mount between 4 to 6 guns of approximately 5 inch in caliber, with a shell weight on the order of 50 pounds. A World War Two U.S. Navy battleship of the North Carolina, South Dakota, and Iowa class mounted nine 16 inch guns, firing a High Explosive shell weight 1900 pounds and an Armor-piercing shell weighing 2700 pounds. In addition, they had secondary batteries of twenty 5 inch guns, except for the South Dakota which carried 16 to allow for additional space to function as a Fleet Flagship. The battleship had far more firepower than a destroyer.

As for the Aegis, it mounts a single 5 inch/54 caliber gun with a limited amount of ammunition. The World War Two destroyer had far more bombardment capacity than an Aegis ship. Their primary function is long-range surface to air missile defense of a task force. Using them for shore bombardment is basically a waste of the ship.

With respect to ship speed, the standard game is horribly out of whack. The ancient galley had a sustained cruising speed of 3 knots, and could make a much as 11 knots for a period of 20 minutes, as which point the rowers were exhausted. A transport ship will typically cruise at 15 knots, and the very large cruise ships will typically make about 20 knots.

U.S. Navy World War Two era ships were built to cruise at 20 knots, with the top speeds for the carriers, cruisers, destroyers, and the Iowa-class battleship on the order of 32 or more knots. They also had far more range than the ancient galley, as well as much better seaworthiness. I give the galley a 3 for movement, but the carrier, cruiser, and destroyer a movement of 12 (it actually should be higher, but unless you are on a very large water map, the increased movement becomes a little ridiculous). Battleships get a movement of 10, as the Iowa-class ships were unique in their high speed. Twenty-seven to thirty knots were more normal for ships built in the 1930s.

It is your mod, and you can do whatever you want with it.
:worship:


:D
 
Would these not then have been considered "galleases?"
The galleass was a totally different type of ship, typically carrying a row of light guns on a deck above the rowing deck. Under oars, they were slower than a true galley, as they were heavier.
"Torpedo Boat Destroyers?"

:worship:


:D
I keep thinking about putting together a booklet on useful military data for wargame designers, covering material like the above.
 
The galleass was a totally different type of ship, typically carrying a row of light guns on a deck above the rowing deck. Under oars, they were slower than a true galley, as they were heavier.
My friend, might you elaborate? (The distinction is critical for Terra Fantasia.)
I keep thinking about putting together a booklet on useful military data for wargame designers, covering material like the above.
:agree::woohoo:


:D
 
I keep thinking about putting together a booklet on useful military data for wargame designers, covering material like the above.
Timerover51... That would be an Outstanding Endeavor and Extremely Helpful for Everyone :yup:
 
My friend, might you elaborate? (The distinction is critical for Terra Fantasia.)

:agree::woohoo:


:D
I think that I have some images of a galleass in my image libraries. I will look and post what I find.

Moderator Action: The follow-up is this post here, now moved to a galleass-specific thread. - Quintillus
 
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Moderator Action: I've moved the galleass-specific discussion to the thread Civinator proposed and that timerover51 and Vuldacon agreed would be a more appropriate home for them. Thanks for noticing and reporting when the discussion was veering too far from the new mod!
 
Quintillus, thank you very much for moving these posts. :)
 
Moderator Action: The thread has now been moved to its new home. Enjoy the mod!
 
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