ITT: We discuss and evaluate Unique Units

Brawndo

Warlord
Joined
Jul 30, 2010
Messages
255
I'm only going to talk about the ones I've used a lot, or have had experience fighting against.


English Longbowmen
: Needs to be nerfed. 3 range is ridiculous this early in the game; on offense I can safely bombard cities into the red without retaliation and then run in with a Horseman or Knight for a one-hit conquest. On defense, having Longbowmen is like a hack, especially considering the AI sucks at combat 9 times out of 10. They are so overpowered that my conquering army for 150+ turns was basically a handful of Swordsmen and Longswords as blockers, and the rest nothing but Longbows. IMO, a more balanced Longbowmen unit would be 14 (+2) Ranged combat and -10% cheaper than Crossbowmen, while retaining the same range.

Naursen's Elephant: I had Siam use them against me in a 30+ turn war. In practice, the reduced movement was not a big deal, because most battles I fought were in rough terrain or around cities. The +4 strength definitely helps, because NEs were able to 1v1 Pikemen without getting whooped.

Chinese Cho-Ko-Nu: Another completely OP unit. They need to be nerfed to 8 ranged strength or something, or at least increase their production cost. It got to the point the AI could not touch me in my own territory for half the game, because Cho-Ko-Nus were effective as late as when Riflemen were on the field.

Egyptian War Chariot: The extra movement helps a bit, but to be honest, in the early game production times are so long and techs come so quickly (compared to production) that I had Horsemen unlocked before I even finished a single War Chariot. I think the ability to melee and more combat strength would make this unit worth investing in more so than extra movement and no horse requirement.

Roman Legion: IMO +2 Strength isn't THAT great considering Legions cost 10P more, which only further delays already long production times in the early game by several turns. Also, it might add historical flavor, but I've never once used their ability to build roads or forts.

Ottoman Janissary: This UU is amazing - the 25% attack bonus helps, but the instant heal upon kills is almost OP. If the AI I was fighting had been more aggressive, they would have crushed me.

Persian Immortal: I didn't find the Immortals to suit my play style when it comes to war - I like to stay on the offensive and move a lot. Faster healing doesn't really help here, but I could definitely see how that would be useful on defense in your own territory.

Greek Hoplite: +2 strength is pretty useful this early in the game, because it allowed the Greek AI to give a decent fight to my Swordsmen and Horsemen couldn't touch them unless they were at < 3 HP. I haven't used them myself, but considering that Pikemen have 1 more strength, I could see Hoplites being useful well into the medieval age.


I haven't played very many games (mostly due to my numerous issues with vanilla CiV's gameplay balance and AI), so these are really the only UUs I have a lot of combat experience with. Please share more!
 
Well I have a lot of games played with greece

Companion cavalry is just amazing, 5 movement and 14 strength. It can be rushed easily, generally I just go straight to horseback riding, get a few horses during that time and build as many as I can, even on deity they just wipe the floor with anything the AI can build at this point in the game and can destroy a city with ease. The best early rush unit in my opinion. It can even be supplemented with hoplites(and archers) once you are out of horse, because 1 UU just isn't enough :P .
 
English Longbowmen: Needs to be nerfed.
No it doesn't. Its a powerful UU, but on a civ that is otherwise entirely naval oriented (which has no synergy with the longbow) and its a unit that can't be effectively upgraded (ranged units don't translate). Similarly the CKN. These units are strong because all their power is concentrated into "now".
With many other units, the unit can upgrade, and often retains many of the UU's bonuses in its upgraded form.

In practice, the reduced movement was not a big deal, because most battles I fought were in rough terrain or around cities
Doesn't really make sense; 3 moves is still very useful in rough terrain, because they let you move 2 tiles, whereas a 2 move unit can only move 1 tile.

Ottoman Janissary: This UU is amazing
Its supposed to be amazing, to compensate for the worst UA in the game.

I like to stay on the offensive and move a lot. Faster healing doesn't really help here
Totally disagree. Faster healing helps primarily in this case, because it means you don't have to spend a lot of time sitting around healing - you are ready to go and move offensively again soon.
Its also nice offensively in that even in enemy territory they can heal city bombardment damage fast and move on.

Greek Hoplite: +2 strength is pretty useful this early in the game,
The hoplite is very nice, but consider that none of its bonuses translate once you upgrade it, because they aren't promotion based.

Companion cav are even more powerful than hoplites though.
 
No it doesn't. Its a powerful UU, but on a civ that is otherwise entirely naval oriented (which has no synergy with the longbow) and its a unit that can't be effectively upgraded (ranged units don't translate). Similarly the CKN. These units are strong because all their power is concentrated into "now".
With many other units, the unit can upgrade, and often retains many of the UU's bonuses in its upgraded form.

CKN retains the double attack all the way up to mech infantry, mass CKN with a beeline to riflery is a common strategy.
 
CKN retains the double attack all the way up to mech infantry, mass CKN with a beeline to riflery is a common strategy.
CKN ranged promotions (barrage, etc.) do not translate into advantages for a melee unit.
I agree that blitz is still useful, but I would prefer to upgrade a unit with a lot of shock or drill promotions.

Archery units are still much less promotable than other units. If you focus your strat around CKN, you will have weak riflemen.
 
Sadly you cannot use promotions to give CKNs three attacks. You can get the promotion, but still only have two attacks. I was disappointed.
 
Its supposed to be amazing, to compensate for the worst UA in the game.

This. Most of the problems with imbalance relate to civs with strong UUs and strong UAs/UBs. Babylon is the only civ that is in the top tier solely for its UA.

Companion cav are even more powerful than hoplites though.

Quite. The Hoplite is a placeholder unit that lets you get away with not bothering with real melee or melee tech, yet dominate the AI's rush. It does just fine at its job until Lancers appear, so upgrading them is not a priority.

The fact that the Hoplite doesn't benefit from promotions isn't a huge deal, since you won't want to make many. Once you get CCs, it's far more efficient to just spam them to the cap and use tactics to cope with Pikes. Killing a target with melee almost always gets it killed. Living, healing CCs that cannot be touched are much better than dead melee units.

The extra moves and GGs are so strong that I tend to defer the Knight promotion. It's quite easy to get huge flanking bonuses using CCs to compensate for the lower strength rating, yet never suffer counterattacks. Only Pikes are challenging to kill, but AIs other than Bismarck seem to prioritize Steel over CS. The solution there, of course, is simply to leave Bismarck for last.
 
I think its funny from a historic perspective that Greece vs Persia is likely to be dominated by Greek cavalry vs Persian infantry, whereas in reality it was the other way around.

but AIs other than Bismarck seem to prioritize Steel over CS. The solution there, of course, is simply to leave Bismarck for last.
Which is of course a big problem for the AI, since CS is possibly the most powerful tech in the game.
 
CKN ranged promotions (barrage, etc.) do not translate into advantages for a melee unit.
I agree that blitz is still useful, but I would prefer to upgrade a unit with a lot of shock or drill promotions.

Archery units are still much less promotable than other units. If you focus your strat around CKN, you will have weak riflemen.

The whole point of bee-lining is not to have riflemen with a couple extra %, but riflemen that can crush the opposition that has nothing to compete against them, and do it twice as fast, no other civ can have that many multi-attacking units which makes this early rifling very effective as you can maximize the time during which you have the undisputed military advantage.
 
The whole point of bee-lining is not to have riflemen with a couple extra %, but riflemen that can crush the opposition that has nothing to compete against them,
So?
This isn't about beelining, its about the value (or not) of the archery UUs.

Yes, beelining rifling is powerful.

That doesn't somehow make longbows or CKN more powerful.

The simple fact is that a crossbow UU is, all else equal, less valuable than other UUs, because almost any promotions it accrues are wasted when it upgrades.
 
I think its funny from a historic perspective that Greece vs Persia is likely to be dominated by Greek cavalry vs Persian infantry, whereas in reality it was the other way around.

Hadn't thought about it that way, that is funny!

Which is of course a big problem for the AI, since CS is possibly the most powerful tech in the game.

Not if you're an AI with tiny food boxes already, and spam TPs rather than Farms as a result. A couple of extra pop points doesn't matter all that much under those conditions. Having the ability to spit out early Longswordmen with the mad production bonuses is a lot scarier against anyone other than Alex. Turn 85-90 Longswordmen always make me frown.
 
War Chariots - So, this is a bit hard to get, but pays off greatly (esp if you thought chu-ku-nu were good, at 2x10 attack). After 4 promotions (3 of either drill or formation), get blitz. Then they attack 5 times a turn (5x6). VERY GOOD. I was killing ~20 (!) strength units and cities with these guys, just roll forward, shoot 3 times, roll back. Get 2-3 (4-6 with Honor) exp for EACH attack. Once you get 4 promotions, you'll quickly get another 4. Seriously. After I finally upgraded them to knights (18 strength), I felt that they felt weaker and less useful.

Also, for the Romens, their legionnaires are ok, but their ballista is OP. 18 range strength (trebuchet is 20, and costs double, at a later era), at the same time as their other unit, legionnaries, means that most cities are 1-shot! You can hold off any early attack as the Romens, even on diety, since a ballista in a city can 1-shot all classical units.
 
So?
This isn't about beelining, its about the value (or not) of the archery UUs.

Yes, beelining rifling is powerful.

That doesn't somehow make longbows or CKN more powerful.

The simple fact is that a crossbow UU is, all else equal, less valuable than other UUs, because almost any promotions it accrues are wasted when it upgrades.

I love how you stopped the quoting right before the ",". Go troll somewhere else.
 
I agree that the war chariots are great. You can get them very early by just researching wheel (in a 'normal' build order, can get one right after your first settler), and once you get blitz on them they tear up ancient/classical armies.

They go well with honor so you can explore everywhere and know when encampments appear. Then just beeline over with your 5 move and take the free money and xp.
 
War Chariots - So, this is a bit hard to get, but pays off greatly (esp if you thought chu-ku-nu were good, at 2x10 attack). After 4 promotions (3 of either drill or formation), get blitz. Then they attack 5 times a turn (5x6). VERY GOOD. I was killing ~20 (!) strength units and cities with these guys, just roll forward, shoot 3 times, roll back. Get 2-3 (4-6 with Honor) exp for EACH attack. Once you get 4 promotions, you'll quickly get another 4. Seriously. After I finally upgraded them to knights (18 strength), I felt that they felt weaker and less useful.

I definitly have to try that.

The War Chariot is cheaper then an archer, 60 vs 70, much faster. Same range attack and 1 less in combat.

Another factor to consider with the longbowmen and the Janissary is you don't get them until the medival age. You have to play the first part of the game with no advantage at all. Just hope your not in too big of a whole by then.

The other special unit for the English is a boat. For land based maps that is useless and from what I've read about the AI stinking at sea and especially land invasion it wouldn't be that powerful for sea maps. I don't know what the ottoman other advantage is.
 
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