Bulgaria Civ Overview (Exploration Age)

[Daigotsu Max]

I don't find the civ super interesting, but I have a new favorite Exploration wonder. Turn the stupid Exploration Age culture victory into a wonder victory? Yes, please. I'll take a Modern equivalent, too. The Louvre or Smithsonian, perhaps?

Oh wow I hadn't noticed. Yeah it completely transforms the game. Nice!

 

[Ryansinbela]

Modern era cultural victory has a lack of artwork which is what I associate the era with
BringBackGreatArtists

 

[Zaarin]

Modern era cultural victory has a lack of artwork which is what I associate the era with
BringBackGreatArtists

I'd love to see alternate paths for Culture in both Exploration and Modern, including the return of Great Works of Art, Writing, and Music. ("Build the most monuments to your greatness" does feel very on-point for Antiquity.)

 

[Ryansinbela]

Would you want traditional great people back or do you think unique great people is the better choice

 

[Zaarin]

Would you want traditional great people back or do you think unique great people is the better choice

I think they can coexist. You could still have the existing Unique Great People but also have other ways to earn Great Works, whether it's from traditional Great Artists or some other method.

 

[Ryansinbela]

I think they can coexist. You could still have the existing Unique Great People but also have other ways to earn Great Works, whether it's from traditional Great Artists or some other method.

Yeah I didn’t suggest getting rid of unique great people, those are cool too (also would help if they actually got GOSHDANG CIVILOPEDIA ENTRIES)

 

[Leucarum]

I don't find the civ super interesting, but I have a new favorite Exploration wonder. Turn the stupid Exploration Age culture victory into a wonder victory? Yes, please. I'll take a Modern equivalent, too. The Louvre or Smithsonian, perhaps?

Could we get a super-like button? This post needs one!

 

[Siptah]

I don't find the civ super interesting, but I have a new favorite Exploration wonder. Turn the stupid Exploration Age culture victory into a wonder victory? Yes, please. I'll take a Modern equivalent, too. The Louvre or Smithsonian, perhaps?

First Rila, then House of Wisdom...

 

[King of Prussia]

I'd love to see alternate paths for Culture in both Exploration and Modern, including the return of Great Works of Art, Writing, and Music. ("Build the most monuments to your greatness" does feel very on-point for Antiquity.)

tbh i would like to see that for any victory type. Give me more options.

 

[Zaarin]

tbh i would like to see that for any victory type. Give me more options.

Indeed, I'd love to see more paths for all the Legacies; I just think Culture is in the most pressing need for it.

 

[Navelgazer]

I don't find the civ super interesting, but I have a new favorite Exploration wonder. Turn the stupid Exploration Age culture victory into a wonder victory? Yes, please. I'll take a Modern equivalent, too. The Louvre or Smithsonian, perhaps?

I'll be interested to see where in the civic path this lands for Bulgaria and where for the general public. It's a massive early-grab if you can get to it soon enough.

 

[The Fanatical]

Descriptive names can work if the original name itself isn't well-attested. Bulgarian - unfortunately - is very well attested.

I don't mind Punic Port, for instance, but i VERY strongly mind "dockyard" which is one of the two buildings that goes into the Punic Port. Even "Bireme Wharf" would have been more flavourful.

Cothon should have just been the unique quarter. I think it would have been more flavorful to just call one building the "inner harbor" (the production-based building) and the other one "outer harbor" (the gold-based building).

Unique Quarter: Punic Port Cothon
Unique Building: Cothon Ûbôn or Maleth (harbour in Punic)
Unique Building: Dockyard Neosoikos (dockyard in Greek)

 

[Zaarin]

Ûbôn (harbour in Punic)

Another Punic word I'd like a citation for. (Not because I'm saying it's wrong but because I haven't seen it in any of my dictionaries. Is the onset aleph or ayin? Related to ʿ-B-N, "to inter"?) The Phoenician word for harbor I'm familiar with is malṭ or possibly melīṭ 𐤌𐤋𐤈 (either way, whence Malta).

Neosoikos (dockyard in Greek)

Call one a ʾ/ʿūbōn and the other a Malṭ; then no Greek is necessary. Or Malṭ + Maqōm ("district"). Or Malṭ + Bēt ʿabdūt, but IMO that feels kind of Aramaic. The only "house of" construct I know of in Phoenician is bēt ʿūlōm, "house of eternity," as a euphemism for the grave.

 

[The Fanatical]

Another Punic word I'd like a citation for. (Not because I'm saying it's wrong but because I haven't seen it in any of my dictionaries. Is the onset aleph or ayin? Related to ʿ-B-N, "to inter"?) The Phoenician word for harbor I'm familiar with is malṭ or possibly melīṭ 𐤌𐤋𐤈 (either way, whence Malta).


Call one a ʾ/ʿūbōn and the other a Malṭ; then no Greek is necessary. Or Malṭ + Maqōm ("district"). Or Malṭ + Bēt ʿabdūt, but IMO that feels kind of Aramaic. The only "house of" construct I know of in Phoenician is bēt ʿūlōm, "house of eternity," as a euphemism for the grave.

Apparently Hippo Regius (ʿpwn, 𐤏𐤐𐤅‬𐤍) derived its name from the word ûbôn that means harbour in Punic, but I can't find it in a dictionary. The more modern French name Bône or Bona of the current city (Annaba), was derived from Ubbo, a local version of the long forgotten ancient Punic and Latin names of the city. Hippo Diarrhytus had the same Punic name ʿpwn (𐤏𐤐𐤅‬𐤍) as Hippo Regius and the two cities had to be called differently by both Greeks and Romans. The source for ûbôn is page 326 of the book Through the Eye of a Needle: Wealth, the Fall of Rome, and the Making of Christianity in the West, 350–550 AD by the historian Peter Brown.

As you suggested, Maleth can work too instead of Ûbôn. Neosoikos isn't a bad choice considering that Cothon is taken directly from Greek (Kothon: the name of a drinking vessel), even if the origin of the word Kothon could be pre-Greek or Phoenician.

 

[Zaarin]

Apparently Hippo Regius (ʿpwn, 𐤏𐤐𐤅‬𐤍) derived its name from the word ûbôn that means harbour in Punic, but I can't find it in a dictionary. The more modern French name Bône or Bona of the current city (Annaba), was derived from Ubbo, a local version of the long forgotten ancient Punic and Latin names of the city. Hippo Diarrhytus had the same Punic name ʿpwn (𐤏𐤐𐤅‬𐤍) as Hippo Regius and the two cities had to be called differently by both Greeks and Romans. The source for ûbôn is page 326 of the book Through the Eye of a Needle: Wealth, the Fall of Rome, and the Making of Christianity in the West, 350–550 AD by the historian Peter Brown.

Thank you!

Neosoikos isn't a bad choice considering that Cothon is taken directly from Greek (Kothon: the name of a drinking vessel), even if the origin of the word Kothon could be pre-Greek or Phoenician.

Another word I don't think is directly attested in Phoenician, but cothon is at least generally accepted to be from Phoenician (it does look Semitic to me).

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Another word I don't think is directly attested in Phoenician, but cothon is at least generally accepted to be from Phoenician (it does look Semitic to me).

Switch the letter "K" to "C" and any word would sound less Greek.

Now speaking of Bulgaria, what are the chances that the cities might be in Cyrillic script?

 

[Zaarin]

Switch the letter "K" to "C" and any word would sound less Greek.

The Phoenician form is presumably qotōn 𐤒𐤕𐤍. The phonotactics and assimilated vowel definitely look Phoenician.

 

[Menocchio]

Switch the letter "K" to "C" and any word would sound less Greek.

Now speaking of Bulgaria, what are the chances that the cities might be in Cyrillic script?

After the disaster that is "Nijni-Novgorod" (to say nothing of the other Russian city names) I do not have high hopes. For what it's worth, I like Anglicised names and endonyms both well enough, so long as they're recognisable and transliterated with some consistency and sense. The appearance of "Qrt-ḥdšt" would kill people I fear.

 

[Zaarin]

The appearance of "Qrt-ḥdšt" would kill people I fear.

Civ6's Phoenician city list was a bizarre mixture of Hellenized, Latinized, and consonantal names. I believe LPQY and MRT were among the latter; no idea why they didn't just use a probable reconstruction like Lepqī and Mart.

 

[Evolena]

Bulgaria's link graph: