JB01 Newb/Rookie C3C training game...

[jb1964]

Hey, if you want it, grab it...

 

[jb1964]

I think this, at one time, was the roster. The game's been dragging for a while so please consider this a free for all. Whoever wants it, take it... oh, and post an "I got it!"

If a week passes by w/o another set I'll also consider it free game.

azzaman333 (2) -
jb1964 (3+) - Played prior to guest, SW
Mr David (1.4) -
Vaiar (2) -
drakdan (3.1) -
Mirc (1) -

SW (1) - Thanks for advancing the game! And nice set of organization. I agree w/ the Lib sale. Why not!?!

The next player should have the option of starting a war. Kill Carthage just for sport.
The infrastructure is looking good, we have mondo Keshik armies but could probably use more keshiks.

 

[soul_warrior]

SW (1) - Thanks for advancing the game! And nice set of organization. I agree w/ the Lib sale. Why not!?!.

well, my reasoning for the libs was that sooner, rather than later, the GLib will become obsolete (in the hood of 10-20 turns would be my guess).
after which we would have to keep up the science rate.
Another reason was a DIRE lack of culture. libs will fix that.

The next player should have the option of starting a war. Kill Carthage just for sport.
The infrastructure is looking good, we have mondo Keshik armies but could probably use more keshiks.

Carthage would indeed be a nice parcel o' land. get to it ASAP.
BUT BEFORE you start that war -
remember we're a republic.
declaring is bad for us, so we need short nasty wars.
to do that:
We need MORE keshiks. LOTS MORE. id build another 10-15 before starting the offensive.
I would also finish the Infra rounds
(libs for 6 beaker towns, markets for the larger towns, courts in the reasonable productive ones {50% corrupt or less, making more than 6-8 shields <- IN YOUR FACE )
it would pay off very soon.

just a long term thought:
i would think about holding OFF science after reaching CAVS, use the money to upgrade the HORDES of KESHIKS we will have.
Later we will probably need ASTRONOMY to invade the other landmasses.

if we keep pounding dirt with the ponies, we wont need to face rifles.

also think about building libs in the new towns for those extra tiles after 10 turns.

 

[Theryman]

Nice game so far. I've learned a lot from this; now if I only had Conquerers, I could play a few of the sets. Oh well. Good luck!

 

[jb1964]

Nice game so far. I've learned a lot from this; now if I only had Conquerers, I could play a few of the sets. Oh well. Good luck!

A fellow Buckeye. Actually not, I graduated from another Big 10 school to the West.

Thanks for the note. Also, Conquests can probably be gotten off of eBay for about $10 or less. I much prefer it over "Vanilla" Civ.

 

[soul_warrior]

hey guys, the fact that the GLib is about to go out of fashion is no reason to assume a win

 

[drakdan]

I got it.

I was hoping someone else might want to take it but it looks like interest is waning. Perhaps we would want to make it an open sucession game, or do something else to raise interest.

 

[drakdan]

Please ignore the bad formatting. Notepad will do that to a person.

Preturn: Establish Embassy with Babylon. I see that we can attack Carthage whenever we choose, so I move units closer to Sabratha, spying a numidian Merc. I also see
the cities Oil Fields 1 and Oil Field 2, and wonder why they are there. Personally, I'd abandon both, but for the moment I'll leave them for someone else to explain.

Turn 1: I absolutely can not figure out why we have all these settlers around. We don't need more cities, we need better cities. I continue to set up units. I also switch
Karakorum to Leonardo's Workshop, done in 14. Next turn will be the attack.

Turn 2: Minor moves around the board, including sending defensive troops to the frontline. I notice that Greece is still at war with Carthage, Greece has only 5 cities, the Zulu
alone have Education, Babylon is the only civ I have an ongoing deal with, and the Inca are still too close in score to me. I sign a pact with Greece against Carthage just for
the positive PR with Alexander. I take Leptis Minor, Hadrumetum, & Sabratha immediately. I also piss off the Zulu (even more), hoping that they will declare war. Screw
them. Alexander can be drawn into a war against the Zulu soon.Gunpowder the next turn.

Turn 3: I move units towards Oea, Carthage's last city. Science is set to 100% at -80 GpT, for Chemistry in 4. I personally do not like taking the tech pace fast like this, but
since we are already set in our path I'll have to follow.

Turn 4: Oea taken, Carthage has fallen. I re-arrange units to be able to head off any Zulu sea invasion, while sending leftover units towards the front. Golden Age is done. I
set science down to 70%, for Chem is 7 turns. I don't particularly want to wait for Calvary to invade another nation. I decide to declare war on the Incas (they can not get to
me). I get Babylon in an alliance against the incas. Hopefully they'll stop attack Spain soon, so I can get spain in. The Histograph says that babylon has the strongest AI army. Neato.

Turn 5: I do little.

Turn 6: I rushbuild some temples to expand them borders. I dislike holes.

Turn 7: I do little.

Turn 8: I do little. Zulu has 3 knights near the border. Hurray. Chem in 1 turn.

Turn 9: Zulu declares war, we fend off 3 Knights, all cities get a nice happiness boost. We learn Education and Chemistry. I set science to zero to raise some funds for the
moment. I go into Zulu territory, just to discover their main army. It's outdated, and gets decimated. Mpondo is taken, and I should of razed it. Instead I took it, then abandoned it.

Turn 10: Ngome taken. This culture thing has me very edgy. Most of their army is attacked and killed off. We have a tech lead, though the Zulu are going through the top
level of the tree and have at least 1 technology we do not have. Greece looks horribly weak, and most of their land has no improvements. My only worry with the zulu war is
that they'll get a Galley/Caravel with knights past our defenses and decide to raze some towns easy. The Inca have met the Greeks, so we give them Invention in return for 26 gold and an alliance against the Zulu and Incas.

Turn 11: I start to move units into Ngome, then I caught myself playing an extra turn and knocked it off. Saved here, without doing anything else to the turn.

Summary: Why was Oil Field 1/2 founded? Carthage Killed. Zulu War started. Inca war Started, but it does us zero harm. Eventually when we make peace they will barely be angry at us. The zulu, not so much. We should sue for technologies. Our culture is positively pathetic. Leo's in 8. I set Theveste to prebuild with the Palace in anticipation of Economics and Smith's. There has not been a lot of build up though. We should do all we can to prevent the Incas from meeting the Zulu and tech trading. Also, someone should review the choices I made in several towns for what to build. I picked a lot pretty much arbitrarily because they wouldn't finish in 10 turns.

 

[soul_warrior]

Summary:
Why was Oil Field 1/2 founded? .

as a part of my grand scheme [insert evil laughter here]
we need more towns for unit support, and those backwater desert things will never grow past size 3-4 tops.
might aswell use the tiles, no?

Carthage Killed. Zulu War started. Inca war Started, but it does us zero harm. Eventually when we make peace they will barely be angry at us. The zulu, not so much. We should sue for technologies. .

all looks good.
regarding the Zulu, it depends what they have to offer.
my view, since we'll be able to get only ONE tech, is to keep pounding them.

Our culture is positively pathetic.

ahem.
i beg to differ.
please notice in my set (previous one) that i have spent mucho mulla on libraries, as well as give my reasoning for it:

Spoiler :

i.e. - we will need to self research VERY soon, and libs are much more valuable than temples.
i prefer using the lux slider. its cheaper in the long run.

Leo's in 8. I set Theveste to prebuild with the Palace in anticipation of Economics and Smith's. There has not been a lot of build up though. .

with i agree wholeheartedly.
the Heroic Epic would have been nice, but leo's is very handsome aswell, more so.

We should do all we can to prevent the Incas from meeting the Zulu and tech trading..

Also, someone should review the choices I made in several towns for what to build. I picked a lot pretty much arbitrarily because they wouldn't finish in 10 turns.

 

[soul_warrior]

ahh,
and all those runaway settlers?
plan is to use them to fill in the RAZED ai towns.

like drakdan said, we're behind on the culture front, and face some serious flip risks.

 

[jb1964]

Most of the far off territory will always and forever be corrupt.

Things those cities can do for you...
Make workers
Make settlers (We're going for domination so settlers are good)
Become science farms, with proper irrigation
Reduce unit support costs (Cram them in CxC style)

As far as I'm concerned this game is wide open for anyone that wants to play a set. After sitting fallow for a week I was half temped to play it to an end. But my latest endevor is going for stupid early space victories. It's entertaining and goes pretty quick.

Instigating a war on the other continent was a good idea.

Nice set drakdan.

 

[drakdan]

It's my favorite trick to slowing the tech pace, and I do love a slow tech pace. Another game I'm playing is just nearing the end of the middle ages around 700 AD on emporer. Also, doesn't less cities mean less corruption because of a lower OCN, or something like that?

And yes, despite those few recent libraries we are still horribly behind in the culture race.

 

[jb1964]

There's an old saying, "The best time to plant a tree is today." The culture isn't going to pop up quickly but the libs planted today will start to staunch our lack of culture.

I'm not so concerned about it though. Once we scrub these lands flipping from over the sea isn't going to be a problem. But I do understand the problem presented here when we try and hold the Carthage, Zulu, and soon, Grreek cities. When we get over the pond I imagine we'll be doing a lot of razing and replanting cities. Plus there's something sort of fun about thinking ourselves uncultured swine.

I have often wondered about the increase in corruption vs. additional unit support. You're trading shields for gold but at what pace I just don't know. Under Communism in Vanilla Civ it was VERY obvious. In C3C I just haven't seen a big drop in productivity. Maybe we should see if we can note when some of our more productive cities start to lose a higher percentage of shields as our city count climbs? A good point to start paying attention at would be when we start getting the "New Cityname" suggestions.

I took a page from your book and have kept the tech pace slow once my UU, Chinese Riders, started showing up. Oddly, I have not had to start a single war. Each time I was about the pull the trigger the AI's decided that I must die. Korea, Byz, Persia, Japan and the Hittites have all gone bye-bye.

 

[jb1964]

OK gang, this game seems to have been abandoned by all by myself and drakdan with an occasional participation by SW. I also need to walk away to concentrate on other tasks but I felt this needed to be finished.

Rought write-up

Tech path
Military Tradition - Hmmm, Cavalry
Banking, Econ - to turn the palace pre-build into Smiths
Astronomy - caravels needed to cross to other continent
Physics, Magnatism - needed to send 3 Keshik armies to greet our other friends
ToG & Steam - laying down rail-net, we had 91 workers at the end of the game and countless slaves
Electricity, Rep Parts - make our workers fast, only promoted a single musket to infantry, Last Tech

The turns
Don&#8217;t need to mine around corrupt cities. Food cannot be corrupted and the added population only helps us w/ unit support. We set to irrigate the corrupt lands.

@Drakdan, you did a good job spreading the AC&#8217;s around to play defense against back door landings and sending the better units to the front lines. The Zulu did drop two knights into the mountains but the AC&#8217;s were able hold them off while keshiks showed up the turn afterwards to finish the job.

I changed temple builds to libraries and settlers. (I later switched that to workers because libs were no longer needed.) The temples can come in handy when the population starts outgrowing the luxuries and you can provide targeted happiness in the larger cities rather then paying for moving the slider. Besides, for 20 more shields for the library you get twice the culture.

We cranked the research up to get to Cavalry sooner. After that there&#8217;s another good point to slow down the research when we take an offensive advantage. Besides, the Zulu are throwing a few knights at us. (Again, later we went directly for Astro & Mag for transports and Steam for obvious reasons. Lastly, Rep Parts for fast workers)

I just saw the Zulu get a GL. He&#8217;ll probably rush an Impi. J

We get a GL and I create another army but will keep it empty for cavalry over the sea.

710AD, Zulu are dead and they took Banking and Astro with them. I tried to extort it but Shaka wouldn&#8217;t have it.

We have MilTrad but we&#8217;ll need Astro to get over the pond. We&#8217;ll research it at a slower pace because we&#8217;re going to kill Greece and fill in some open spaces first. Can&#8217;t count on the other civs to research it for us. Excess gold can go for rushes.

750 AD, A city flips to Greece. I would like to attack now but need more forces.

Isabella wanted us to join in the fight against Babylon. We said no and a few turns later she declared on us.

860 AD, It took about three turns to kill off the Greeks after cavalry and armies were brought into place. We&#8217;ll want to go for Magnetism so we can transport our Keshik armies over to tear up resources.

980 AD, We land troops in Spain and sack Madrid.

1000AD, taking a queue from drakdan, we paid Babylon 50g to declare again on the Inca.

1050AD, Madrid, Seville, and Salamancha have been captured. Spanish cities raised to reduce cultural pressure. Some universities have been built there&#8217;s little reason to keep making them rather than cavalry. We&#8217;ll keep making them and rolling the AI&#8217;s back.

1070AD, the people are starting to get restless. The western conquered lands are set up as science farms now that they&#8217;re largely irrigated. Spain will be dead in a turn or two which will help. We have 12 settlers to grab territory and several 3-5 spt cities cranking them out. Filling the gaps quickly while we trash Spain, and others, will get us the Domination victory post haste.

1080 AD, the Spanish are dead but the War Weariness is from our struggle w/ the Inca. We make peace w/ Inca and spend a few turns planting our settlers.

1100AD, The Babylonians are unhappy that we broke the deal so they attack. Fine, we trade some tech, Econ, to the Inca for wines and start picking off units.

1130AD, Steam comes in and well keep researching to Rep Parts to double the speed of the workers and further amp up our productions. Rail-net is laid down.

1160AD, Cavalry, Cav & Keshiks armies allow us to take 7 Babylonians cities in six turns.

1255AD, Babylon has two cities left but we don&#8217;t get the chance to take them because we have 67% of the territory.

Pics... The win, the core, the FP

 

[soul_warrior]

talk about a lightning strike
nice wrapup,JB.

 

[Theryman]

You should start another newb SG, so I can play this time!
Suely you'd do it for a fellow Cincinnatian?

 

[jb1964]

You should start another newb SG, so I can play this time!
Suely you'd do it for a fellow Cincinnatian?

If you can gather up a group of other newbs that are interested in seeing a game to the end I'll be glad to join and point out all the things I have learned from hanging out at this Forum far too much.

This last game seemed to have players that were new up to a player or two that had more experience than me. I honestly think we got into a mode where some of the players were squeemish about playing turns out of fear that they would screw up the game. Believe me, I was there once at well... concerned that I was in over my head and my turnset would let everyone know it in spades!

I'm better off w/ a team of equals playing a SG that has parameters that's going to challenge everyone equally or a game where there's little chance of anyone doing harm to the overall goals. For example, a regent game.

Yep, get together one, two, three or more players that are having troubles w/ Civ basics and we'll run through a Regent game to show everyone that with a few basic principles this game is hard to lose.

PM me anytime you would like.

 

[Theryman]

Would it be Vanilla or Conquerers?

 

[jb1964]

I prefer C3C. If Vanilla's all you got then I'de suck it up for a game.

Then again, the entire Civ Gold edition is $20 at WalMart.

 

[soul_warrior]

how about training in a trench warfare style game?

we will aim for a conquest game, on a pangea, with only grunts as troops?
no ponies nor artillery?

should hone the war like skills of all involved.