JustBen
Prince
Thank you, kind lurker. The roster has been fixed to set our two GMTers adjacent to each other.
JB2 - Neo-Fascists (C3C Deity)
- Thread starter JustBen
- Start date
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
Not a bad start position but a lot is going to depend on whether we're alone on this island.
If we are alone and with no suicide galleys allowed then the Great Lib would seem to be our most important wonder.
Wonders are not something I normally worry about at Deity but in this case it'll be pretty much essential otherwise we'll be stuck 2 ages behind the AI when we finally make contact.
Ted
If we are alone and with no suicide galleys allowed then the Great Lib would seem to be our most important wonder.
Wonders are not something I normally worry about at Deity but in this case it'll be pretty much essential otherwise we'll be stuck 2 ages behind the AI when we finally make contact.
Ted
JustBen
Prince
If we can't cross water to make contact before Astronomy, how are we supposed to use the Great Library? Doesn't Education come before sea-friendly ships?
Honest, guys: I didn't mean for these rules to strap us into a straight-jacket where we were forced to go Lighthouse-Colossus-Library first thing.
But we haven't scouted the whole island/continent yet. It's pretty likely we'll find someone, or at least a coastway to another island if it turns out to be archipelago.
Honest, guys: I didn't mean for these rules to strap us into a straight-jacket where we were forced to go Lighthouse-Colossus-Library first thing.
But we haven't scouted the whole island/continent yet. It's pretty likely we'll find someone, or at least a coastway to another island if it turns out to be archipelago.
Improviser
Chieftain
Preturn-(3000 BC)
Everything looks good.
Turn 1 (2950 BC)- Warrior to south moves onto the mountain and sees more jungle. I begin roading the tile (a mine will have no effect
on the granary, or the first settler. The curragh uncovers the bottom tip of our landmass. The warrior remains for MP duty.
Turn 2 (2900 BC)- Nothing.
Turn 3 (2850 BC)- Warrior moves onto second mountain to see yet more jungle. Curragh spots a barbarian camp to the south.
Turn 4 (2800 BC)- Worker begins mining BG.
Turn 5 (2750 BC)- Granary completes, settler started. (City will grow at same time the settler completes). The treasury is
running a mild deficit.
Turn 6 (2710 BC)- It is confirmed, we are on an island. The scouting warrior continues to uncover more jungle.
Turn 7 (2670 BC)- I turn down the research rate and Warrior Code still comes in the same number of turns.
Turn 8 (2630 BC)- Nothing
Turn 9 (2590 Bc)- I turn down the research rate 1 more notch and make +1 gpt.
Turn 10 (2550 BC)- Settler completes at Byzantium. I send him to the red dot closest to Constantinople (on Greebley's dotmap).
Constantinople starts on a spearman (can be changed). I can't turn down the research rate any more. I send out the warrior from
Constantinople to escort the settler. The warrior in the south spots a barbarian. The worker moves 1 tile south to begin a road.
Save
Sorry about the brevity of this report. It was either submit it now, or wait another 12 hours before I could play and post.
Improviser
Edit: Sorry, I accidentally left the settler and the warrior protecting him on go to.
Everything looks good.
Turn 1 (2950 BC)- Warrior to south moves onto the mountain and sees more jungle. I begin roading the tile (a mine will have no effect
on the granary, or the first settler. The curragh uncovers the bottom tip of our landmass. The warrior remains for MP duty.
Turn 2 (2900 BC)- Nothing.
Turn 3 (2850 BC)- Warrior moves onto second mountain to see yet more jungle. Curragh spots a barbarian camp to the south.
Turn 4 (2800 BC)- Worker begins mining BG.
Turn 5 (2750 BC)- Granary completes, settler started. (City will grow at same time the settler completes). The treasury is
running a mild deficit.
Turn 6 (2710 BC)- It is confirmed, we are on an island. The scouting warrior continues to uncover more jungle.
Turn 7 (2670 BC)- I turn down the research rate and Warrior Code still comes in the same number of turns.
Turn 8 (2630 BC)- Nothing
Turn 9 (2590 Bc)- I turn down the research rate 1 more notch and make +1 gpt.
Turn 10 (2550 BC)- Settler completes at Byzantium. I send him to the red dot closest to Constantinople (on Greebley's dotmap).
Constantinople starts on a spearman (can be changed). I can't turn down the research rate any more. I send out the warrior from
Constantinople to escort the settler. The warrior in the south spots a barbarian. The worker moves 1 tile south to begin a road.
Save
Sorry about the brevity of this report. It was either submit it now, or wait another 12 hours before I could play and post.
Improviser
Edit: Sorry, I accidentally left the settler and the warrior protecting him on go to.
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
Our Island in the Sun
It looks as if there might be sea routes Southwest or North.
Ted
It looks as if there might be sea routes Southwest or North.
Ted
Improviser
Chieftain
Just commenting, even now we might be too late to get the Great Library. If we do want to go for it, I think we need to go for maximum research on writing and then literature. If we fail to get it, we might not have another wonder to switch to, as acquiring Mathematics and building the SOZ (which likely only we can build- and it is likely to be a fairly useless wonder in this situation) will still take awhile.
A question- will the AI only make a crossing if there is no danger of its ship sinking?
A question- will the AI only make a crossing if there is no danger of its ship sinking?
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
On the Great Lib: in PTW the GL would give you all techs known to 2 AI (even if those techs were way beyond Education) because when the contacts are made Education is unknown. I don't know if this is still the case in C3C.
We would certainly need to start our 2nd city on a palace pre-build as soon as it's founded. Whether or not we'll succeed with the pre-build is unknown but if we have to self research all the way to Atronomy then the AI will certainly be contacting us rather than vice versa
AFAIK the AI will not risk their ships sinking.
Ted
We would certainly need to start our 2nd city on a palace pre-build as soon as it's founded. Whether or not we'll succeed with the pre-build is unknown but if we have to self research all the way to Atronomy then the AI will certainly be contacting us rather than vice versa
AFAIK the AI will not risk their ships sinking.
Ted
Kuningas
Deity
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2003
- Messages
- 2,092
pre turn
Everything looks good.
IT 3 barbs appeared near our Curragh.
1 - 2510BC
Worker ->road. Constantinopole ->Archer.
Research set to Writing. Max speed 46 turns.
IT scouting warrior is attacked by barb. win 1 hp left.
2 - 2470BC
Adrianople founded ->Granary.
Can't start palace prebuild on Adrianople. We don't have Masonry.
I really want the GLib. I change slider to 0% and research to CeremonialB. Hopefully I can grab Masonry from the hut.
3 - 2430BC
4 - 2390BC Constantinopole: Archer ->Settler
pop the hut and angry barbs appeared. Research to Masonry in 14 turns.
IT win: 3/3 warrior (mountain) vs 2/2 bw
5 - 2350BC
Worker ->road ivory.
IT win: 3/3 warrior (mountain) vs 2/2 bw
6 - 2310BC
IT win: 3/3 warrior vs 2/2 bw
7 - 2230BC
Ivory connected. Masonry in 8 turns.
8 - 2230BC
Barb camp dispersed + 25 gold.
9 - 2190BC
Constantinopole: Settler ->Archer
10 - 2110BC
Andianople's granary is prebuild for Palace. Palace is prebuild for GLib
We get Literature in ~50 turns by then Andianople has 400 shields. Merging workers in the town etc.
We'll see if this succeed.
ptw AI civs with seafaring trait do commit suicide galleys.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/jb2-2110bc.zip
Everything looks good.
IT 3 barbs appeared near our Curragh.
1 - 2510BC
Worker ->road. Constantinopole ->Archer.
Research set to Writing. Max speed 46 turns.
IT scouting warrior is attacked by barb. win 1 hp left.
2 - 2470BC
Adrianople founded ->Granary.
Can't start palace prebuild on Adrianople. We don't have Masonry.
I really want the GLib. I change slider to 0% and research to CeremonialB. Hopefully I can grab Masonry from the hut.
3 - 2430BC
4 - 2390BC Constantinopole: Archer ->Settler
pop the hut and angry barbs appeared. Research to Masonry in 14 turns.
IT win: 3/3 warrior (mountain) vs 2/2 bw
5 - 2350BC
Worker ->road ivory.
IT win: 3/3 warrior (mountain) vs 2/2 bw
6 - 2310BC
IT win: 3/3 warrior vs 2/2 bw
7 - 2230BC
Ivory connected. Masonry in 8 turns.
8 - 2230BC
Barb camp dispersed + 25 gold.
9 - 2190BC
Constantinopole: Settler ->Archer
10 - 2110BC
Andianople's granary is prebuild for Palace. Palace is prebuild for GLib
We get Literature in ~50 turns by then Andianople has 400 shields. Merging workers in the town etc.
We'll see if this succeed.
ptw AI civs with seafaring trait do commit suicide galleys.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/jb2-2110bc.zip
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
Got it
Playing soon
Ted
Playing soon
Ted
Ben,
There is a good chance that things will be ok. If we get the Great Libary we simply wait until the AI finds us rather than visa versa. When they do, we will catch up in tech. No need for us to go for Astonomy.
If we miss the GLib, then there may also be land within range. We can expore one square further by fortifying or going one square out into the sea (and back if we don't find anything.
If neither occur, then we need to play catchup. Meeting all the civs would then be important so we can buy techs at last place cost. This final case would be very challenging, but I think others have won from this position.
There is a good chance that things will be ok. If we get the Great Libary we simply wait until the AI finds us rather than visa versa. When they do, we will catch up in tech. No need for us to go for Astonomy.
If we miss the GLib, then there may also be land within range. We can expore one square further by fortifying or going one square out into the sea (and back if we don't find anything.
If neither occur, then we need to play catchup. Meeting all the civs would then be important so we can buy techs at last place cost. This final case would be very challenging, but I think others have won from this position.
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
JB2-2110BC
Pre-flight checks... OK
Pre-turn... Switch Constantinople to Settler (need more production and to control pop)
Press button...
Bugger! the NW barbs move closer
1 - 2070BC
Curragh E, SE (track barbs)
Archer W (ready to move N to intercept barbs next turn)
Settler & escort E
Warrior W
2 - 2030BC
Archer N (barbs didn't move)
Caesarea founded - Warrior (barb Warrior NE, barb Horse 2E)
Warrior fort Caesarea
Warrior NW
Research 90% (Masonry 4 turns @ 0gpt, 41gp in the bank)
IBT
Barb Warriors (NW) move SE
Barb Warrior (NE Caesarea) N
Barb Horse (2E Caesarea) NW
3 - 1990BC
Archer kills barb warrior
Warrior NW
Curragh SE
IBT
Our brave Archer fends off 2 barb Warriors and is promoted to elite 3/5
Barb warrior is now 2SE Constantinople
Barb Horse is 3SE Constantinople
To add insult to injury another barb horseman shows up 3NW of our Archer
4 - 1950BC
Archer fort (heal)
Curragh 2NW, W (check if more barbs are coming. Luckily none are seen)
Worker mine - SE (should have been E
)
Research 70% (still 2 turns but now +4gpt)
Lux 10% (Constantinople)
IBT
Barbs warrior & Horse arrive SE Constantinople
another barb horse appears from the NW
Constantinople Settler - Barracks
5 - 1910
Settler (Constantinople) to Adrianople (short-term safety)
Warrior NW (arrives Caesarea)
Warrior (Caesarea) W
IBT
Constantinople ransacked for 14gp
Constantinople ransacked for 10gp
Barb Horse arrives WSW Constantinople
Discover Masonry - Writing
6 - 1870BC
Elite Archer kills barb Horse without getting a scratch
Settler joins Archer (will head for Black dot site to the NW of Constantinople)
Warrior fort Caesarea
Warrior W
MM all cities to maximise use of mined tiles
Lux 0% (forgot last turn)
IBT
Caesarea Warrior - Barracks (I don't really see an alternative with barb Horsees on the loose)
7 - 1830BC
Settler & Archer N
Warrior (Caesarea) NW (heading for Constantinople)
Warrior guards Worker (roading to Caesarea)
IBT
Barb horse moves in range of our Archer
8 - 1790BC
Elite Archer kills barb Horse (W)
Settler joins Archer
Curragh W (lookout)
Warrior N
IBT
Adrianople Granary - Palace
9 - 1750BC
Settler & Archer N
Warrior arrives Constantinople
Curragh heads NW around coast to see if we can spot barb camp
MM cities to speed Barracks in Constantinople & Palace in Adrianople
10 - 1725BC
Nicaea founded - Warrior
Archer fort Nicea
Warrior fort Constantinople
Curragh continues anticlockwise
Empire
Notes
I mis-moved the Worker earlier but didn't want to waste a turn so I carried on roading.
I chose to let the barbs pillage Constantinople rather than risk losing the few military we had.
Writing is due in 17 @ -2gpt. We can't maintain that unless we road and mine another river tile.
Our biggest problem is going to be happiness (or the lack of it). With only 1 luxury for the forseeable future we're going to have a hard time.
The save is > here <
Ted
Pre-flight checks... OK
Pre-turn... Switch Constantinople to Settler (need more production and to control pop)
Press button...
Bugger! the NW barbs move closer
1 - 2070BC
Curragh E, SE (track barbs)
Archer W (ready to move N to intercept barbs next turn)
Settler & escort E
Warrior W
2 - 2030BC
Archer N (barbs didn't move)
Caesarea founded - Warrior (barb Warrior NE, barb Horse 2E)
Warrior fort Caesarea
Warrior NW
Research 90% (Masonry 4 turns @ 0gpt, 41gp in the bank)
IBT
Barb Warriors (NW) move SE
Barb Warrior (NE Caesarea) N
Barb Horse (2E Caesarea) NW
3 - 1990BC
Archer kills barb warrior
Warrior NW
Curragh SE
IBT
Our brave Archer fends off 2 barb Warriors and is promoted to elite 3/5
Barb warrior is now 2SE Constantinople
Barb Horse is 3SE Constantinople
To add insult to injury another barb horseman shows up 3NW of our Archer
4 - 1950BC
Archer fort (heal)
Curragh 2NW, W (check if more barbs are coming. Luckily none are seen)
Worker mine - SE (should have been E
)Research 70% (still 2 turns but now +4gpt)
Lux 10% (Constantinople)
IBT
Barbs warrior & Horse arrive SE Constantinople
another barb horse appears from the NW
Constantinople Settler - Barracks
5 - 1910
Settler (Constantinople) to Adrianople (short-term safety)
Warrior NW (arrives Caesarea)
Warrior (Caesarea) W
IBT
Constantinople ransacked for 14gp
Constantinople ransacked for 10gp
Barb Horse arrives WSW Constantinople
Discover Masonry - Writing
6 - 1870BC
Elite Archer kills barb Horse without getting a scratch
Settler joins Archer (will head for Black dot site to the NW of Constantinople)
Warrior fort Caesarea
Warrior W
MM all cities to maximise use of mined tiles
Lux 0% (forgot last turn
)IBT
Caesarea Warrior - Barracks (I don't really see an alternative with barb Horsees on the loose)
7 - 1830BC
Settler & Archer N
Warrior (Caesarea) NW (heading for Constantinople)
Warrior guards Worker (roading to Caesarea)
IBT
Barb horse moves in range of our Archer
8 - 1790BC
Elite Archer kills barb Horse (W)
Settler joins Archer
Curragh W (lookout)
Warrior N
IBT
Adrianople Granary - Palace
9 - 1750BC
Settler & Archer N
Warrior arrives Constantinople
Curragh heads NW around coast to see if we can spot barb camp
MM cities to speed Barracks in Constantinople & Palace in Adrianople
10 - 1725BC
Nicaea founded - Warrior
Archer fort Nicea
Warrior fort Constantinople
Curragh continues anticlockwise
Empire
Notes
I mis-moved the Worker earlier but didn't want to waste a turn so I carried on roading.
I chose to let the barbs pillage Constantinople rather than risk losing the few military we had.
Writing is due in 17 @ -2gpt. We can't maintain that unless we road and mine another river tile.
Our biggest problem is going to be happiness (or the lack of it
). With only 1 luxury for the forseeable future we're going to have a hard time.The save is > here <
Ted
JustBen
Prince
Wow. This opening makes me sad. Not exactly the game I was hoping for, Seafaring notwithstanding. Who was it that had his fingers crossed for an archipelago? 
Anyway, it's clear we have a desparate need for more population. That's the best way to get the science up. Since we have no particular pressure to expand rapidly, we should let a couple cities get up to 5/6 range to start alternating military & settler/worker.
Roster:
Ben
Improviser
Kuningas
TedJackson
Mad-Bax (up next)
Greebley (on deck)
Anyway, it's clear we have a desparate need for more population. That's the best way to get the science up. Since we have no particular pressure to expand rapidly, we should let a couple cities get up to 5/6 range to start alternating military & settler/worker.
Roster:
Ben
Improviser
Kuningas
TedJackson
Mad-Bax (up next)
Greebley (on deck)
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
Actually I think we'll do better with more, lower pop cities as otherwise all our income will be spent on luxury taxes.
We'll also probably need to build more workers than normal to keep the pop down to a manageable level. Once we've improved/roaded all our tiles then we could disband them to help build infrastructure (2 sheilds apiece IIRC)
Ted
We'll also probably need to build more workers than normal to keep the pop down to a manageable level. Once we've improved/roaded all our tiles then we could disband them to help build infrastructure (2 sheilds apiece IIRC)
Ted
Improviser
Chieftain
Well, Adrianople on the Palace prebuild will continue to grow in size anyway, and if we have to up luxuries for one city, we might as well do it for others as well.
Also, I think all the barbarians will be cleared off the island before the barracks in Caesarea completes, although the completion time will drop due to growth, and worker improvements, it will still take 20 turns or so to complete. A few warriors might be more useful than a barracks.
I agree with Ted's call for more workers, the bottom half of our island is mainly jungle and being a non-industrious civ it will take a long time to clear.
Improviser
Also, I think all the barbarians will be cleared off the island before the barracks in Caesarea completes, although the completion time will drop due to growth, and worker improvements, it will still take 20 turns or so to complete. A few warriors might be more useful than a barracks.
I agree with Ted's call for more workers, the bottom half of our island is mainly jungle and being a non-industrious civ it will take a long time to clear.
Improviser
More cities does give us more income in the long run (but less in the short). We will want to achieve a balance I think. Having the more corrupt cities build settlers and workers as soon as they are big enough is a good idea. I like doing this when I want to grow fast with little in the way of food bonuses. The area with 3 fishes, will be especially good at buiding the workers we need if we go for map making fairly early (it won't have the shields for settlers) as it can build a worker every 4 turns (2 with granary though it wouldn't have the shields) (instead of every 10 for other locations).
I just realized a major problem with Nicea's placement. I wish I had spotted it before we built it. We want the town one square to the NW on the hill. The reason is that otherwise we cannot get irrigation to the peninsula and no irrigation for all the plains will really hurt us. Ironically, all we need to do is build the city there, irrigate, and then remove it to place Nicea back where it is. (I guess the farmers will continue to use the old cities pipes that run through the hill).
Question: Is it worth moving Nicea to get irrigation to the peninsula? I am thinking the answer is yes.
I just realized a major problem with Nicea's placement. I wish I had spotted it before we built it. We want the town one square to the NW on the hill. The reason is that otherwise we cannot get irrigation to the peninsula and no irrigation for all the plains will really hurt us. Ironically, all we need to do is build the city there, irrigate, and then remove it to place Nicea back where it is. (I guess the farmers will continue to use the old cities pipes that run through the hill).
Question: Is it worth moving Nicea to get irrigation to the peninsula? I am thinking the answer is yes.
JustBen
Prince
Have you checked that with the latest patch, G? The irrigate-thru-a-hill-city bug/feature is one that flips back and forth. I don't think it's supposed to be possible, but I haven't checked with 1.13b.
Improviser
Chieftain
Should we patch this game to 1.15b?
JustBen
Prince
I think it would be appropriate for us to patch to 1.15b. Since we're barred from Fascism, we may try going Communist late-game, so I'd hate to see us cheating on the SPHQ.
Does anyone know how the FP works in this latest version? My interpretation of the info thread is that it's still only doing half the job of the Palace, but details are scarce.
MB & Greebley -- feel free to play at whichever version you prefer. When it gets back around to me, we'll "officially" start using the new patch.
Does anyone know how the FP works in this latest version? My interpretation of the info thread is that it's still only doing half the job of the Palace, but details are scarce.
MB & Greebley -- feel free to play at whichever version you prefer. When it gets back around to me, we'll "officially" start using the new patch.
JustBen,
The FP helps reduce distance corruption, but does not work as the foundation for a second core as it did in PTW. In game terms it means that the AI will get the benefit of the FP - without suffering as it used to - by the fact that the AI never built it far away enough from the Palace. The increased OCN will also give the AI more of an incentive towards domination victories and fewer razed cities in the late game.
For the Human player - you will find that building Police Stations and Courthouses in the far reaches of your empire - WILL actually have a noticeable affect - unlike PTW. Also your OCN number has increased, and overall corruption is reduced. Another advantage for the human player is that he no longer waits to build his FP in some low shield producing, perfectly distanced second core city - so build it ASAP.
I suspect ( I can not prove this -yet-) that a secondary effect of this will be a stronger Republic and Democracy Govs in wartime - lower corruption equals more commerce, equals more luxery slider manipulation against WW - equals longer wars in representative Govs. Another effect should be a small boost to the commercial trait - especially late game.
Ision
The FP helps reduce distance corruption, but does not work as the foundation for a second core as it did in PTW. In game terms it means that the AI will get the benefit of the FP - without suffering as it used to - by the fact that the AI never built it far away enough from the Palace. The increased OCN will also give the AI more of an incentive towards domination victories and fewer razed cities in the late game.
For the Human player - you will find that building Police Stations and Courthouses in the far reaches of your empire - WILL actually have a noticeable affect - unlike PTW. Also your OCN number has increased, and overall corruption is reduced. Another advantage for the human player is that he no longer waits to build his FP in some low shield producing, perfectly distanced second core city - so build it ASAP.
I suspect ( I can not prove this -yet-) that a secondary effect of this will be a stronger Republic and Democracy Govs in wartime - lower corruption equals more commerce, equals more luxery slider manipulation against WW - equals longer wars in representative Govs. Another effect should be a small boost to the commercial trait - especially late game.
Ision
