jdog what's up with your city distance calc?

[BobTheTerrible]

Well, total treasury to population is a weird measure. Say I have 2 cities and 1500 gold - a high standard of living. I trade that gold for a tech or two, all of the sudden my people are penniless. I think gold per turn might be a better measure since it is relatively more stable, but it falls into the same problem with resource trading. I think something like resources/population or something like that might be better. I'm not sure how relevant this is, but in the third post of this thread I suggested replacing the standard happiness measure with the rev index, since they both are getting at the same concept - happiness of citizens. I'm still not sure how to factor wealth in, since it's very simplified in civ games.

 

[GoodGame]

It'd be per city, so pop per city would give each city their own standard of living.

I'd think of the gold per turn as potential, but not the actual accrued. Treasury would be actual wealth already generated.

I agree it would upset things where the AI only trades for big lumps of cash, and possibly those things might need some tweaking so it would except the financing of gold per turn. But that's the idea---that the taxes are now in how the government spends the money in hand, before the people can spend it themselves; If the people had that money in hand and circulated it amongst themselves--they'd be happier. IMHO, that's the most realistic model compared to happy face counting, viewing lightbulb slider bar as liberty, etc...


And the standard of living could be further refined if wanted as multipliers representing efficiency of trade. E.g. cities far from the capital or unconnected might not get as high a standard of living as treasurey/# of cities modified at each city per pop.

 

[BobTheTerrible]

I'm not sure I'm following you right- If I trade all 1500 of my gold away, I have 0 gold. 0 gold is still 0 standard of living no matter if the city is 15 pop or 1 pop. I think that using the government stockpile of gold to generate taxes/standard of living is a bad idea in the first place.

 

[GoodGame]

Yes, the average citizen would be completely destitute at zero gold in the treasury. I guess if you can accept the gold per turn and worked tile commerce as being potential wealth, then my idea is sound. I happen to like it very much.

Consider a midgame situation that at 1 gold in the treasury, with the army maintenance being paid from sliders before the treasury, the average populace will be destitute, but the army still maintained. The populace will probably be nearing revolt.

It might create a situation whereby era-based rising expecations would be needed, so that in the ancient era, a low treasury doesn't equal revolt. But as era/tech advances the gold per pop's minimum standard of living increases, simulating rising expectations.

 

[BobTheTerrible]

I still take issue with the idea that the treasury is being used to determine standard of living. It makes no sense to me that the government stockpile of gold, which it has collected through taxes/trade, be used to assess the average citizen's living standard. The gold is entirely the government's and has nothing to do with the citizens. Furthermore, the gold in the treasury fluctuates too much to be used as a measure anyway.

Here's a sample situation: A new military technology is discovered, so the government uses its treasury reserves to upgrade old units to new ones. Before the turn, standard of living was fine. During the turn, standard of living plummets. Why do the citizens suddenly live in disease and filth because the government used it's own money to upgrade troops?

As I said before, if anything, standard of living should be Health + Happiness / city size.

 

[phungus420]

Well, my main point of eliminating the tax based revolution penalty was to allow greater divergance of sucesful strategies. Look through the stories and tales thread, half the novel aproaches to varient games would be impossible strictly due to the tax implementation of Revolutions. My point is that it is a defacto way to pigeon whole the meta game into a max science strat, always, no matter what. It wreks havock on Specialist economies, and other novel economic concepts. And for what? I see no gains from the system as currently implemented, and certainly no benifits that outweigh it's gameplay effect.

Your idea of basing everything off the treasury would also force off novel economic strategies. So from a gameplay perspective I don't see what the benifit is.

For an idea related to what you are getting at GoodGame, a system that counted the Total Commerce Generated (all types). Then subtract losses from Maintence costs (unit, city, civic), inflation, imports, & foreign payments (buying a resource). Take the result and devide it by the total commerce and this will give you Economic spending ratio. The higher the number, the healthier your economy, the lower the number, the more waste that is experience, either in higher taxes or wealth being funneled away due to overseas trade.


Hmmm, now that I think about it, that seems like a really good system. I'll have to see about how to implement it.

 

[phungus420]

Drunk nao

So, I think, mostly commented, in fact, it's all commented, there are just some calls for traits, that probably don't fit

Also I should seperate out city distance, and the tax stuff, but the tax stuff is good. City distance is good, but the code I uploaded before was better, tweaked this out of range for this build on city distance. That's included and all, and better then default, but my last city distance was better, still commented, but just commented under phungus.

Now this tax build upload, it ain't perfect, but it works, and it works better then the old, gold rate hook, that made sure you produce gold. Now to me, if the gov takes my money, if they produce gold/Research/ or use to to snipe my enemies it's all good, so this just goes:

iGDP: All earned science, culture, esionage, whatever, you earn it you get it
iGovernment waste: Inlations, maintance, cost on troops
and it takes iGov / iGDP and says that's the money you all pay on taxes
Don't matter if its spying points, gold or whatever, just if it's wasted, it's a burden the gov takes.

Then it builds off of that.

So here is that code:

Now I commented all this, just comment out everything with TRAIT_ and it'll work as a good testing build. I just gave bonuses to weak traits in this, but just comment out them TRAIT lines, and it'll work fine (also added a trait, so Enlightened is a string that just will exist in this code, and better to comment it out), anyway, try this, I think you'll like it.

Though use my old city communication function. This one works, but I nerfed it in this build, and that din't work right. The old formula for city distance was better, though that's just all miner tweaks to number anyway.

This new taxes build completely definens the function.,,
and it really is better then the old system....

 

[phungus420]

What the hell?