Jewish Civilization - Israel

[volbound1700]

This may not just be limited to Civilization 6 but why hasn't there been a Jewish/Hebrew/Israel Civilization yet in Civilization?

The Jewish Civilizations of David and Solomon are more iconic than over half the Civilizations present in the series.

I would have thought Civilization 4 would have been a great starting place with Judaism added as a religion.

I know that Civilization: Call to Power had Israel as a playable Civilization but why not in the main series?

 

[leif erikson]

It is a controversial choice.

 

[General_Sahib]

I think an Israel civilisation should very much be considered but to avert the risk of controversy over city name choices, perhaps a Palestine civilisation should also be considered simultaneously.

In fact, I dare say, this "2 civ solution" may be the best way forward...

 

[Cerilis]

It will probably come in a 2-civ dlc pack together with Tibet.

/s

 

[Linklite]

Israel would be a very contentious choice, who gets Jerusalem? What cities do they get? No matter what choice is made, they alienate a good number of people. Maybe you could do a Semitic civ, but would that offend people, forcing them together? Genuine question - I don't know.

I think Firaxis are content to just avoid the minefield.

 

[volbound1700]

Civilization Call to Power and Empire Earth both went with it and you don't see "controversy". You got tons of controversy with existing civilizations. How they would play it is going of ancient Israel which would be the focus and not necessarily focusing on Modern Israel.

Jerusalem would have to be Capitol. Other cities would be Jericho, Hebron, Shechem, etc.

David or Solomon would be the leader.

I mean using the controversy angle, why are religions in the game?

The only people that seemed to be afraid was Age of Empires (another series that had Israel missing but then again they also left out the Celts in the original AOE) and Civilization.

 

[leif erikson]

Firaxis has been very careful with how they portray religion in the game because it is controversial.

Go back and read how religion was implemented in Civ4. The effects of religion are nearly all the same.

In Civ6, you pick what your religion effects will be and they are not tied to specific religions.

 

[Zegangani]

Jerusalem would have to be Capitol

That's one of the main reasons. I even dislike it that the Jerusalem City-State in Civ6 has a Lion as the Civ Icon. I'd rather not have it at all (as a minor or major Civ) than see it associated with Israel exclusively.

 

[bbbt]

They could do Canaan, which would cover all the bases.

To me honestly Israel isn't terribly interesting. The most interesting/impressive part about the Jewish civilization was the fact that they've managed to maintain their culture and language for thousands of years as culturally distinct groups within other countries as minority groups. But that's beyond something that the Civ series as it stands could do.

 

[kaspergm]

It will probably come in a 2-civ dlc pack together with Tibet.

/s

No, Israel would come with Palestine.

Tibet would be paired with Hong Kong.

 

[iammaxhailme]

I mean, they could just do ancient Israel instead of modern Israel. Which is too young anyway.

 

[Thomas Levy]

I think a Jewish civilization could work, but maybe focusing on the Kingdom of Judah instead of the United monarchy. Hezekiah as leader with emphasis on defence/tunnels tied to religion or Josiah with expanded religious reforms similar to Civ 5's Byzantium?

 

[Krajzen]

I don't see how ancient Judea would be controversial. It is a historical, factual entity from over 2000 years ago. Modern country Israel involves a lot of political issues to put it lightly, but only ones who would deny the existence of Jewish civilization here 2000 years ago are antisemitic followers of pseudohistory, and I have no idea why should we cater to them. When Nubia was released 20% of YT comments disliked the video because the leader was an oberweight black woman. Why on Earth should we cater to racists, ultra nationalists, sexists and other lunatics.

You make ancient Judea, give it Jerusalem as capital obviously because it was a fact, if you really have problems with Jerusalem then give them Hebron or whatever other city, you have a wonderful civilization to play with. If you are afraid of the word 'Jews' which is stupid to begin with then you name them Hebrews for example or whatever.

By the way, I am obviously talking about state of Judea existing in the post hellenic era (between Seleucids and Rome), because 'Solomon's kingdom 1000 BC' has never existed beyond any scientific soubt. Like, not only we have no evidence of it existing, but we have a convergence of countless pieces of archeology and history that explicitly and utterly contradict it existence on every level possible. Solomon is a mythical entity. Zero, null, nothing, not a metaphor, not an exaggeration, by 1000 BC Judaism was centuries from formative period and nothing resembling large Jewish kingdom existed in the area for centuries.

 

[volbound1700]

I mean, they could just do ancient Israel instead of modern Israel. Which is too young anyway.

That was entirely what I am saying. It should be ancient Israel/Judah focused. Perhaps called it Judea or Hebrew civilization or something.

Also it isn't like having Constantinople the capitol of the Ottomans are not offensive to Christians Greeks who the Ottomans genocide most of the Greeks out of most of what is Turkey today or having Stalin as the leader of Russia and Mao as the leader of China isn't controversial. (To be honest, I think the Ottomans should be in the game and are highly deserving).

You could go through most of the Civilizations in this game and find some controversy about them.

 

[volbound1700]

I don't see how ancient Judea would be controversial. It is a historical, factual entity from over 2000 years ago. Modern country Israel involves a lot of political issues to put it lightly, but only ones who would deny the existence of Jewish civilization here 2000 years ago are antisemitic followers of pseudohistory, and I have no idea why should we cater to them. When Nubia was released 20% of YT comments disliked the video because the leader was an oberweight black woman. Why on Earth should we cater to racists, ultra nationalists, sexists and other lunatics.

You make ancient Judea, give it Jerusalem as capital obviously because it was a fact, if you really have problems with Jerusalem then give them Hebron or whatever other city, you have a wonderful civilization to play with. If you are afraid of the word 'Jews' which is stupid to begin with then you name them Hebrews for example or whatever.

By the way, I am obviously talking about state of Judea existing in the post hellenic era (between Seleucids and Rome), because 'Solomon's kingdom 1000 BC' has never existed beyond any scientific soubt. Like, not only we have no evidence of it existing, but we have a convergence of countless pieces of archeology and history that explicitly and utterly contradict it existence on every level possible. Solomon is a mythical entity. Zero, null, nothing, not a metaphor, not an exaggeration, by 1000 BC Judaism was centuries from formative period and nothing resembling large Jewish kingdom existed in the area for centuries.

I like the sentiment about the game but I disagree with your last paragraph and I have a doctorate degree. Like most of Ancient History, there isn't a lot of evidence but there is a general belief that a united Jewish State existed around the time associated with Solomon. The Bible is no different than the writings of Homer, there is some historic data mixed in with mythology.

 

[volbound1700]

Sounds like this is very controversial on this board, just close the thread.

I am bothered that there is no Jewish/Hebrew/Israel Civilization in the game so you really cannot avoid offending people.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

It will probably come in a 2-civ dlc pack together with Tibet.

/s

I know you're joking but I would be down for that.

Sounds like this is very controversial on this board, just close the thread.

I am bothered that there is no Jewish/Hebrew/Israel Civilization in the game so you really cannot avoid offending people.

I don't think anyone here is particularly offended by the idea, and I know a lot of people here that would love it, including me. But outside of the forums is a whole different matter.

 

[Henri Christophe]

I would like to see Israel in this game, but is controversial because Palestine issue goes to today

 

[GeneralZIft]

Because of clear global political issues, Firaxis with good reason, have dodged a bullet by choosing not to add an "Israel" state - such a one is illegitimate anyway - but mostly because it's extremely controversial.

For the sake of everyone, it's very smart of them to just keep it as a Religious City State;
Not only does it make sense, but Jerusalem is the world's holiest city that has exchanged hands so many times that a City State makes the most logical sense.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Because of clear global political issues, Firaxis with good reason, have dodged a bullet by choosing not to add an "Israel" state - such a one is illegitimate anyway - but mostly because it's extremely controversial.

No one is asking for modern day Israel though, but a legitimate Israel Kingdom under leaders such as David or Solomon.