1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

JFD's mods (not custom civs)

Discussion in 'General Balance' started by Funak, Feb 18, 2016.

  1. Funak

    Funak Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    9,127
    Figured I'd finally make this thread as I got around to trying the full thing out(I think).

    All I've done so far is making a full installation from steam, running it alongside with the full CPP. I'll just list the things that I see clearly not working out properly, or things that are clearly under/over-tuned.


    First of all, forges(which are a staple building in CPP and a requirement for workshop, factory and windmill are not buildable without a workable source of iron/copper in range.

    EDIT: Pioneers and Colonists seems to bypass this problem and start with a forge, guess delayed expansion pays off.

    EDIT: Turns out I was wrong about windmills, they are buildable everywhere (even though the building itself claims it can't be built on hills) it also has really weird yields, including +10% food.

    Second, a lot of the pantheons added are extremely underpowered compared to the CPP ones (this isn't exactly a problem as you can just ignore them, but they should probably be dropped if only to avoid the AI accidentally picking them)

    One of the mods, no idea which one seems to pretty much break the EUI top-bar, which is kinda sad to me because I like that bar :D
    EDIT: Turns out I managed to miss the EUI installation step on one of the mods, fixed it now. Instead there is some weirdness where your current 'piety' level doesn't really show up, it tells you how many turns you have left until you drop/gain a level, which is a lot less useful than just seeing the number you're on, at least in my opinion.

    The Forum Magnum, requires liberty (I was able to build with with progress, no idea if it is buildable without it). CPP still adds the Parthenon as a progress wonder meaning if the Forum is policy-tree locked, progress have two wonders available to them now.

    The top right industry-policy is replaced by Mercenary army (reducing merc costs by 20%), that is a lot worse than the current top right industry policy.
    The top left Imperialism policy, "Martial Law" gives you 15% cheaper mercenaries while still having all its old effects (cheaper upgrade-costs and more productions in puppets)

    One of the mods seems to break the economic view, I can only see my capital on the list, and most of the yields are all over the place.

    The monopolies window seems a bit bugged as well, the only resource I can see on the monopoly-list is Ginger (which I don't have a monopoly of) while Saffron and Salt (which I have monopolies of) won't show up.
    The foreign and potential monopoly doesn't seem to be working either.

    I'm also able to build all land-units with faith (but that might be intended :D

    I have access to two completely different buildings called Chancery, one with dignitary slots and one with civil servants.

    The mod seems to overwrite Gazebo's auto-assign thing for great works, the buttons are missing.

    The monastery policy in Piety does nothing, as you're already using the monastery as a normal building. (it doesn't even give you the ability to purchase your normal monasteries with faith :D)

    Cologne Cathedral doesn't have a gold-rush cost.

    Not exactly a bug, but I get a pop-up asking me to switch my name to Isabella the Zealot every turn, it gets pretty annoying after a while (maybe there should be a cooldown on it or something)


    This is all I have so far, but I'll keep digging.
     
  2. Senteliks

    Senteliks Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2013
    Messages:
    287
    Location:
    Serbia
    Why do you think it's weird for windmill to provide 10% food boost ?

    windmill" is that the devices originally were developed for milling grain for food production; the name stuck when in the course of history, windmill machinery was adapted

    Based on this, it only makes sense, that windmill provides food production boost.

    Also, why I can say what mods you are referring too, can pinpoint what mod of JFD is tided to particular listed problem , you might want to format thread a little better for clarification sake and to keep it more organized.
     
  3. Funak

    Funak Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    9,127
    10% food is a lot, there are other growthbuildings in the same era and there is no other production-building that replaces the windmill.
     
  4. Dallandra

    Dallandra Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Messages:
    96
    It would be a lot more helpful if you actually figured out what problem relates to which mod and report it in their respective threads. A lot of these aren't balance problems, they're compatibility problems that actually need to be fixed.
     
  5. Funak

    Funak Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    9,127
    Let JFD be the judge of that, he did say that posting it in one thread was fine, and I chose this subforum because it is kinda balance, and because the normal forum tends to get flooded, meaning this thread if not updated in a week would get lost.

    The main thing here was actually about balancing, but there are some clear compatibility problems (most pressing one is the Forge). I'm hoping that after clearing them up this could be focused on balance.
     
  6. Senteliks

    Senteliks Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2013
    Messages:
    287
    Location:
    Serbia
    I don't think that JFD is going to balance his mods for CBP, simply because that would put additional stretch to already stretched enough compatibility problems. He is kind enough to make his mods work with CBP, however I think what needs to be done here, regarding balance issues, is that someone (maybe me, if I get a time to do so ), provide SQL tweaks to address balance problems brought in this thread - so keep it detailed, for instance what name pantheons that you think under powered and give explanation why, so we could balance it.

    JFD on other hand can focus on providing compatibility support. Basically balance would be addressed much like thread Mario opened some time ago, where it's all matter of copy/paste to appropriate SQL file and line it.

    Now, I hope I make sense, since this ridiculously easy, even for inexperienced users and that way it's easy to maintain balance and compatibility without complicated things more, for instance expecting JFD do both compatibility for CBP and balance his mod accordingly to it.

    Edit: Actually, what I wrote only applies if you meant using his mods with CP+CBP, otherwise you can safely ignore what I wrote, because I might have misunderstood you.
     
  7. Funak

    Funak Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    9,127
    He has actually said already that he plans to support balance if at all possible.

    The pantheons, I can't remember the name of them, but they did all the standard civ5 pantheon stuff (I think they were from Exploration) adding +1 faith to 3 resources each. I also think the Ancestor worship (3 culture in capital and 1 faith/3 citizens) was cloned and available twice (once under another name). In the 3 games I played no civ actually picked any of these pantheons, so they probably aren't affecting the game much, I just think they would be better off disabled in CPP (as the CPP improvement boosting pantheons work with the new resources anyways)

    I was talking about CBP, I guess I should have made that more clear.
     
  8. JFD

    JFD Kathigitarkh

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2010
    Messages:
    9,121
    Location:
    The Kingdom of New Zealand
    Yup, I find this write-up very helpful, and I'll be looking into them when I get to Rise to Power (all of these issues appear to relate to RtP). Some of the issues pointed out shouldn't have been a problem (e.g. Forum Magnum should be disabled with CBP already), so I'll look into them again. Thanks Funak!
     
  9. Funak

    Funak Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    9,127
    Aww, you're so nice to me and all I ever do is complain :D
     
  10. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    18,003
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Little Rock

    He's not required to balance, but JFD and I have an agreement in which he exchanges lua and cross-mod compatibility for DLL functionality. It's mutual and works well. :)

    G
     
  11. Funak

    Funak Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    9,127
    Again, he has already told me that he is wants to provide balance support for his mods with CBP experience if at all possible, and he has personally asked me to report whatever I find. It just takes me a while to do it, because I'm way too lazy to keep my promises.

    But on the topic of the word "Require", naturally no one here is required to do anything, promised or not, not JFD, not the main G-man, not me, not anyone. This is a hobby-project and people are (hopefully) here because they enjoy it (or at the very least because they have nothing better to do :D).
    If JFD wants to cut balance-support I absolutely won't blame him, it is probably a lot of work for a relatively small market. If Gazebo wants to cut CPP development, same thing. If I want to stop doing whatever little I do, well you don't know where I live so I can probably flee, or more likely no one will notice :D.
     

Share This Page