Jotnar Strategies?

[nutranurse]

So I have been playing more of this mod and have fallen in love with the Jotnar, specifically their lore (which is largely non-apparent, giving me a blank slate to go wild with). However I am at a bit of a loss at how to play them effectively.

Normally I use Mother Enningas and go for a hybrid builder-conquest type civ- rp'd, of course (my excuse for any mistakes I make). I generally focus on having a ton of small steadings that just crank out giants. I keep most of the giants in my borders, having them train up and add to the cities they were born in, but I do have about 10 or so wild trolls running about exploring stuff.

I try to get RoK for my religion, as it gives my gold and gold seems pretty important considering how expensive/often I have to upgrade my giants. However I have been fiddling with the idea of adopting FoL, as the idea of great guardians of the forest appeals to me.

But, uh, as asked above: what are some real strategies? (not the namby-pamby pick-up-techs-as-you-go approach I often use)

 

[Vermicious Knid]

LOL. The current lack of lore is my fault, sad to say.

When I was working on them my primary thought was to model them after the historical/mythical Norse. That is where you get some of the difficult to pronounce names, the enslave chance, etc...

As they currently sit they have a number of strong strategies.

1. Seeding potential future city plots with forts. Saves you building a settler when the time comes to expand.

2. Cherry-picking city plots. You have no distance penalty, so you are free to grab the best unused spots on the map.

3. Small armies of ridiculous troops. If you save your old giants and promote them with equipment and an appropriate kin promo, you'll have some nasty troops. You won't have many of them...

4. Customizable units. With techs there are lots of things you can do with your units. I haven't heard much talk of the packmaster promos...which leads me to believe nobody is using them much.

Basically speaking I tried to leave most strategies open to the Jotnar. Each leader certainly has his strengths...but they are all pretty flexible.

 

[wicshade]

Father Kag... is realy good at getting slaves. with ways of the wicked you can attack a weak civ and turn their slaves into juntar citizen.

ATM this is my favorite civ, and I am trying to test the packmaster out. Jonotar are strong with felowship, especialy on ice or tundra with the yargana.

 

[Valkrionn]

Father Kag... is realy good at getting slaves. with ways of the wicked you can attack a weak civ and turn their slaves into juntar citizen.

ATM this is my favorite civ, and I am trying to test the packmaster out. Jonotar are strong with felowship, especialy on ice or tundra with the yargana.

You may like RoK as well, given that your Soldiers of Kilmorph will be able to build Dwarven Mines... Which eventually become Dwarven Fortresses, and are obscenely strong.

 

[wicshade]

I have been wondering how non dwarven players were building dwarven forts. I have actually been stealing dwarven workers to build them;this will change everything.

I have been focusing on fire manna when I build nodes, I find I usually get the scorched staff. The Juton are also good traders, I try to build on coast and catch hippograffs for their special building.

 

[nutranurse]

LOL. The current lack of lore is my fault, sad to say.

Don't be sad! The bare-bones lore is what attracted me to the civ in the first place (as well as the image of giants pouring out of the mountains and tossing dwarves left and right). When I get around to writing about my game it is nice to know that I do not have to be Magister to get anything remotely correct.


However, I have a quick question: the way I have imagined the Jotnar (at least Mother Enningas's Jotnar) is that they have one or two giants living in the steading and tons of humans/smaller humanoids live around the castle. Is this so? Do the Jotnar act like feudal lords and protect their 'serfs'?


EDIT: Also, for workers, which strategy is better? I tend to bounce between having my young jotnar do the work (makes sense for Mother Enningas, promotes that the jotnar do 'good works' while they're young so as to teach them discipline) and having a buttload of thralls (like 30+) working on one project at a time (makes more sense for the other Jotnar leaders- the Giants are too proud to sully their hands!)

 

[Vermicious Knid]

Don't be sad! The bare-bones lore is what attracted me to the civ in the first place (as well as the image of giants pouring out of the mountains and tossing dwarves left and right). When I get around to writing about my game it is nice to know that I do not have to be Magister to get anything remotely correct.


However, I have a quick question: the way I have imagined the Jotnar (at least Mother Enningas's Jotnar) is that they have one or two giants living in the steading and tons of humans/smaller humanoids live around the castle. Is this so? Do the Jotnar act like feudal lords and protect their 'serfs'?


EDIT: Also, for workers, which strategy is better? I tend to bounce between having my young jotnar do the work (makes sense for Mother Enningas, promotes that the jotnar do 'good works' while they're young so as to teach them discipline) and having a buttload of thralls (like 30+) working on one project at a time (makes more sense for the other Jotnar leaders- the Giants are too proud to sully their hands!)

The image I have of the Jotnar is about one extended family per population point living
in each steading. These extended families are surrounded by a huge throng of goblinoid slaves that do most of the work. As for protecting them...you noticed the long pork spell, right? That simulates a Jotnar unit eating some slaves as a quick pick-me-up.

Workers...I don't think there is a "right" way. Obviously huscarls can do work much faster than the thrall militia, and seakin are capable of building those sweet, sweet sea farms. On the other hand, thrall militia cost no support, are healing potions with feet, and can be used as a low-cost speedbump.

 

[nutranurse]

So they have no chance of living with other creatures (save for the Goblin thralls) whatsoever? Alright, alright. (Would it be plausible that as the civ advances/wars/conquers that they begin to take in other races as thralls?) Well, another question, which Deity is the patron of the Giants? Kilmorph?

 

[Valkrionn]

So they have no chance of living with other creatures (save for the Goblin thralls) whatsoever? Alright, alright. (Would it be plausible that as the civ advances/wars/conquers that they begin to take in other races as thralls?) Well, another question, which Deity is the patron of the Giants? Kilmorph?

Actually, I could easily see them living amongst other races. Under Mother, it could even be fairly cosmopolitan; Everyone would be equal, like with Kuriotates, they just have different specialties. Under Father, other races would definitely be 'lesser', but have their uses... It's why he has Conqueror. Under Uxol, I think they'd be nothing but slaves.

Not sure what patron they'd have. The frontrunners (in my mind) are Kilmorph or Mulcarn. I can definitely see them going White Hand and reuniting with the Frost Giants.

 

[nutranurse]

Well, see, I was contemplating that as well. However aren't the Frost Giants a bit more evil and rather rare (as most now live in Hell with their God)? Also I figured that even under Mother that other races would be 'lesser', as Giants are Giants and Mother despite all her goodie-goodieness is still a Giant who wishes to bring a new era of glory for her kind. I figured that the other races would be seen more as children, that the Giants still lord over them and they are given a fair amount of rights, but will never rule (they'd still have positions of importance, as I figure Mother-Giants would come to see the use of allotting certain non-menial tasks to the smaller races).

 

[Valkrionn]

I could see the Jotnar under Mother treating others as 'children', yes. More patronizing than any real method to it though. Just a 'Mother knows best' type thing.

 

[Vermicious Knid]

So they have no chance of living with other creatures (save for the Goblin thralls) whatsoever? Alright, alright. (Would it be plausible that as the civ advances/wars/conquers that they begin to take in other races as thralls?) Well, another question, which Deity is the patron of the Giants? Kilmorph?

Sure, it is possible...particularly for Mother. They aren't blocked from using Long Pork when they are good, but I tend to refrain.

I also tend to run for founding Runes of Kilmorph when I'm playing Heph...and in that situation I imagine them treating the dwarves as (very junior) partners.

 

[nutranurse]

Yeah, about him. What exactly is he? A Fire-Giant? An Angel of Kilmorph?

Edit: More specifically, what is this tie to Kilmorph, if any?

 

[Valkrionn]

Well, he is directly based on a certain Greek deity.

'He was the god of technology, blacksmiths, craftsmen, artisans, sculptors, metals, metallurgy, fire and volcanoes.'

So both fire giant and disciple of Kilmorph. Should have very high weightings for RoK if he doesn't already.

 

[nutranurse]

Another question! Who exactly are the First Mother and First Father? (The giant equivalents to Nemed and (Os) Geballa?)

Furthermore the pedia mentions that Mother Enningas is 'the purest giantkin female alive, despite her young age'. What exactly does this mean? She comes from a direct line of the two giantkin originators? Was there some sort of corruption along the line (as that is what this entry seems to suggest)?

 

[Valkrionn]

No idea, honestly.

The closest I can come to an answer: Look at Trolls. They are the result of a Giant (one would hope female...) breeding with a Greenskin of some kind. Orc or Goblin. This would imply that there was/is interbreeding between Giants and other races... Which would mean that they are descendants of Nemed, altered in some way.

 

[BiffQJ]

I especially like to play as Hephaestus so all of my units can get weapons (including Egrass). It then makes all of my units ridiculously strong (instead of some ridiculously strong and others just strong). They are a great civ though!

 

[nutranurse]

Yeah, I just finished a cheese game (world builder, quick, was testing something) with Hephaestus. I just built a TON of thrall militias, gave them mithral, and swarmed like no other.

edit: Yeah, the more I play them the more I realize how OP the Jotnar can be. However, the one thing keeping me back in my current game is the UTTER LACK OF GIANTS BEING BORN. >:c

 

[Celeborn]

I tend to play Heph.


And Firekin Freebooters with the Scorched staff. Yeah it's putting all your eggs into one or two baskets, but boy are they -fun- baskets.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Does StW still subtract 1.5 off their food requirement instead of 0.5?

If so, AV is the best religion for them, if not, order is. You make far more gold with basilicas and the free law mana than with RoK and its temples, and RoK's lack of culture really sucks for the Jotnar.