JR-O1: Noble, New Players

[Japanrocks12]

I'd really like to see a city on the plains between the river, lake and marble. Another could be on the west coast to grab the pigs and corn.

 

[Conroe]

lurker's comment: some random comments from a casual bystander ...

Turn 1: 4000 BC I decide to go ahead for an early religion and pick polytheism to research. It is due in 11..

Turn 10: 3640 BC Buddhism is FIDAL.

Meditation was probably cheaper. On Noble, you can pretty much grab Buddhism everytime. And most of the time on Prince.

Turn 6: 3800 BC Within our city radius, we have two wines, one clam, one fish..

Turn 12: 3560 BC research agriculture while we wait to grow..

Turn 19: 3280 BC Agriculture->Fishing

Personally, I think this one was a huge mistake. You have clam and fish in your city radius, but yet you choose Agriculture before Fishing. Why? You have no rice, corn, or wheat in the city radius. Farming isn't needed, yet. A Work Boat, on the other hand, would be priceless right about now.

Turn 2: 3960 BC Instead of working a grassland/forest that gives 2F/1P, I work a plains/forest that gives 1F/2P. The warrior will build in 5 turns now, but growth is slowed to 20 turns..

You're stunting your growth on turn 2? In the early game, the only time you stop your growth is to build a Worker. Why? A Worker will (usually) allow you to grow faster. In this game, though, you really don't have much use for a Worker, yet. You have no food to hook up and I didn't see any hills to be mined.

One of your early goals should be to max out the population in your capital as fast as possible. In this game, that means Work Boats.

Turn 14: 3480 BC This tribal village gives our warrior exp. I order up two woodsman promotions for double movement through forests..

on the promotions! Why are you building so many Warriors, though, this early in the game? If it was because you didn't need a Worker, then good thinking. Putting some hammers into a Barracks might have been better, though. Its too early for barbarians and no AI will attack you this soon.

 

[Japanrocks12]

lurker's comment: some random comments from a casual bystander ...

Meditation was probably cheaper. On Noble, you can pretty much grab Buddhism everytime. And most of the time on Prince.

Personally, I think this one was a huge mistake. You have clam and fish in your city radius, but yet you choose Agriculture before Fishing. Why? You have no rice, corn, or wheat in the city radius. Farming isn't needed, yet. A Work Boat, on the other hand, would be priceless right about now.

You're stunting your growth on turn 2? In the early game, the only time you stop your growth is to build a Worker. Why? A Worker will (usually) allow you to grow faster. In this game, though, you really don't have much use for a Worker, yet. You have no food to hook up and I didn't see any hills to be mined.

One of your early goals should be to max out the population in your capital as fast as possible. In this game, that means Work Boats.

on the promotions! Why are you building so many Warriors, though, this early in the game? If it was because you didn't need a Worker, then good thinking. Putting some hammers into a Barracks might have been better, though. Its too early for barbarians and no AI will attack you this soon.

Everyone goes for meditation usually in the beginning.

Agreed, work boats would truly make me maximize the food but I'm not used to seeing them made so early. And don't forget I'm a new player so I usually go for a worker first.

I built the fourth warrior because I didn't want to make that worker until I grew to size two.

Thanks for your feedback, I really appreciate it

I usually play on warlord, so I'm more used to casual approaches, not to mention that I dislike the early game.

 

[Conroe]

And don't forget I'm a new player

I didn't forget, that is why I posted the comments.





Not really sure what you mean by "casual approaches". The early game is about growth. You need to grow your number of cities and the population within those cities. You have a lot of food sitting off the coast. You need to tap into it quickly. Remember food = commerce, = hammers, and = power. Always look for the food first.

 

[pholkhero]

good turns, Japan, though i do think agr before fishing was for the reasons conroe listed, but delaying it by a tech is not a big deal, esp on Noble. Also, Worker First (TM) is usually a good move, too, IF they have something to do once they're out there (or rather, more than one somethigns to do)

I think foregoing Buddhism was smart. You'll usually never get it at higher levels, and who likes to meditate anyway? I think we should go for Judaism and the Oracle, too.

we DO have a ton of warriors though let's explore and grab as many Goody Huts as we can with them. At least we can crank out settlers w/o having to pause for garrisons to be built.

@ Conroe: I think by casual approach he means (and correct me if im wrong) that he doesn't want to have to study every move he makes to make sure it's the optimal one. however, Japan, you'll see that once you get into the habit of some things, it's still quite casual, just more effective at overcoming the handicaps the higher levels give you.

 

[Conroe]

Also, Worker First (TM) is usually a good move, too, IF they have something to do once they're out there (or rather, more than one somethigns to do)

Well, that was kinda the point. There is nothing for that Worker to do EXCEPT to build roads. They have only wine and seafood in the city radius. This is an unusual start, to be sure. Honestly, though, I probably would have favored a Settler BEFORE a Worker with this map.

I think we should go for Judaism and the Oracle, too.

Honestly, Pholk, I don't understand this one. What does Judaism bring to the table? Sure, Monotheism opens up OrgRel, but they don't really need that right now. In my book, these folks need another religion about as much as they need a Worker!

Unless, of course, the goal of the game is to found as many religions as possible. But, I don't recall reading that in any of the earlier posts. Now going for Oracle, that would be a good move!

They need to finish Fishing as fast as possible. After that, research Pottery for the cottages and to give that Worker something to do. Then head to Priesthood for the CS slingshot.

Once Fishing comes in, preempt that Worker for a Work Boat. Build it at MAX hammers, then switch to MAX growth after the fish are online (fish have more food than clams). When the Worker comes in, start laying down cottages and start with one of those Wine tiles. Save the other wine for Monarchy and the happiness boost. Under Beaucracy, this will be a fantastic city!

@ Conroe: I think by casual approach he means (and correct me if im wrong) that he doesn't want to have to study every move he makes to make sure it's the optimal one.

You may be right, I don't know. But then why host a game saying "I want to move up a level"? I don't mean any offense to you, Japan. I'm just trying to offer you some pointers on where you can improve. I couldn't have done this if you hadn't wrote a very thorough and detailed turn report! Whenever you set a tech to research or set a build order, you need to think "What do I need the most?" or "What does this whatever get me?" -- this is especially true in the early game when you need everything.

 

[picardathon]

Got it, I'll have it in an hour.

 

[picardathon]

I've got it, will have the post in an hour or less (Or your money back!)

 

[picardathon]

Okay, finished 15 turns, no civic changes or settler spots to be picked, so I just played it through.
Turn 1: Why are we garrisoning troops in Mecca? There aren't any barbs coming. Sent one north and one south on fogbusting.
Turn 2: Hi Freddie!
Turn 3: Finish Fishing, start AH (Horses would be nice to find, our UU is a knight.)
Turn 4: Warrior kills lion, gets combat 1.
Turn 6: Warrior killed by lion (90% chance of victory, WTH!!!)
Turn 10: Finish Worker, Start Settler.
Turn 12: Finish AH, start priesthood for oracle.
Tech Ideas: We head for Writing, building oracle for CoL, prophet for Civil Service.
Settler location, the placing near the pigs and marble would be a good idea, enabled by AH. The next one might be grabbing the horse right next to us.

 

[Japanrocks12]

Okay, finished 15 turns, no civic changes or settler spots to be picked, so I just played it through.
Turn 1: Why are we garrisoning troops in Mecca? There aren't any barbs coming. Sent one north and one south on fogbusting.
Turn 2: Hi Freddie!
Turn 3: Finish Fishing, start AH (Horses would be nice to find, our UU is a knight.)
Turn 4: Warrior kills lion, gets combat 1.
Turn 6: Warrior killed by lion (90% chance of victory, WTH!!!)
Turn 10: Finish Worker, Start Settler.
Turn 12: Finish AH, start priesthood for oracle.
Tech Ideas: We head for Writing, building oracle for CoL, prophet for Civil Service.
Settler location, the placing near the pigs and marble would be a good idea, enabled by AH. The next one might be grabbing the horse right next to us.

Good turns, picard Agreed with the pigs and marble site, it would indeed be a great place to settle. We might want to grow a bit though, right now our population is two. Any AI's founded their second cities yet?

 

[Japanrocks12]

And it looks like Pholkpipe is up

 

[lost_civantares]

Do we want to start the work boat now, or wait till after the settler is done?

 

[princecharles]

I say work boat now, then settler. We'll be able to grow a lot faster sooner then. And, more pop=extra hammer/food/commerce/whips, depending on what we have in store for our city.

 

[Conroe]

start AH (Horses would be nice to find, our UU is a knight.)

Saladin's UU is the Camel Archer. It does not require horses in order to be built. Also, it is enabled by Guilds. It is probably a bit early to be worrying about your UU. Don't get me wrong, Animal Husbandry is not a bad tech to learn, just not for the reason you stated.

Tech Ideas: We head for Writing, building oracle for CoL, prophet for Civil Service.

This is actually the preferred method on higher levels because of the amount of time it takes to research Code of Laws. However, when doing this you must remember to NOT research Masonry. If you acquire Masonry, then the Great Prophet will not offer Civil Service. This, of course, means you won't be able to use that marble to speed the Oracle along.

You should probably have a back up plan, though, if this one does not work out. You have a lot of Warriors out there looking for goody huts. It is possible that you could get Masonry from a hut. On the higher levels, you don't get to pop that many huts, but on noble it is very possible.

But the other side of this discussion is do you really need Civil Service? The early commerce boost from Beaucracy is great. But since you have decided to farm those tiles rather than cottage them, it will not be that much of an early impact in this game. It may make sense to take the more expensive Metal Casting from the Oracle rather than Code of Laws.

Settler location, the placing near the pigs and marble would be a good idea, enabled by AH.

True, this would be a good site if you went with Masonry. You might want to think about that gold to the north. A gold mine would pay for several cities. Plus, it has access to wheat. And, you could possibly pick up the cows, as well.

Do we want to start the work boat now, or wait till after the settler is done?

I would recommend the Work Boat. The extra food gets converted to hammers when producing Settlers and Workers.

 

[Japanrocks12]

We have a lot of choppable grassland-forests. Oracle should be ours, provided we go priesthood->BW

 

[princecharles]

If camel archers are horse archers, shouldn't it be unlocked with horseback riding and archery, and not guilds? Then again, camel archers aren't that big of a deal, and we can skip them, but they still would be nice against axemen.

 

[Japanrocks12]

If camel archers are horse archers, shouldn't it be unlocked with horseback riding and archery, and not guilds? Then again, camel archers aren't that big of a deal, and we can skip them, but they still would be nice against axemen.

They replace knights, and won't come along until much later

 

[pholkhero]

And it looks like Pholkpipe is up

i've got it but didn't have a chance to play last night

here's dotmap instead . . . more talking to come once i get to work

 

[Japanrocks12]

blue dot looks best IMO. It grabs the marble, horses, and pigs once expanded, plus there is perfectly no overlap with the capital. It might be somewhat lower on food, due to all the plains and plains-forests and lack of grasslands, but it can make for a pretty good production city.

Pink might be good for a third city, and it has two food resources in range, but it is in Mansa's direction.

 

[Conroe]

lurker's comment: That is a really good dot map, Pholkhero!

blue dot looks best IMO. It grabs the marble, horses, and pigs once expanded, plus there is perfectly no overlap with the capital. It might be somewhat lower on food, due to all the plains and plains-forests and lack of grasslands, but it can make for a pretty good production city.

Pink might be good for a third city, and it has two food resources in range, but it is in Mansa's direction.

Don't worry too much about the cities overlapping. You don't often have size 20+ cities where you will work every tile. As for the food in blue dot, are those pigs and horses on grassland? I'm having a hard time telling from the screenshot. If they are, the city should be fine, especially after irrigation with that fresh water lake. As you say, a good production city!

As for pink dot being in Mansa's direction, that is a reason to settle it. Grab it before he does! What about the other 3 cities on pholk's map?