[GS] June 2019 Patch Details
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MrRadar
Deity
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OK, so more production from the land improvements. Higher yields from quarries, lumbermills and pastures is just what was needed, but... I'd still miss much bigger impact of workshops and factories, especially with citizens working in them, in comparison with what raw production you get just from the land and trade routes. Now ok, T3 buildings, as I understand, will let you gain +3 prod, if you staff it fully with 3 citizens? 6 prod from 3 citizens buffed to 9? That's what - two new lumbermills? Mhm... Aren't IZs being nerfed even further this way? What about railroad impact?
Maybe it is time to devalue mines on barren hills without resources and add cogs to them only if the city has a staffed workshop, and another buff for being in the coverage area of a staffed factory? As it is now, IZ still sounds very weak comparing with what you can get from the land and trade routes. Give at least adjacency from the lumbermills...
Maybe it is time to devalue mines on barren hills without resources and add cogs to them only if the city has a staffed workshop, and another buff for being in the coverage area of a staffed factory? As it is now, IZ still sounds very weak comparing with what you can get from the land and trade routes. Give at least adjacency from the lumbermills...
SammyKhalifa
Deity
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Yeah, I would have enjoyed it more if IZs or workshops buffed lumbermills, or something like that. I do like the change though.
WillowBrook
Lurker
I will withhold judgment on the diplo victory changes until I see how they play out - not sure if adding diplo points to congress resolutions is the best option. But we'll see. I'm glad they are trying to improve it.
The more pressing question is, will these changes break my current game? Usually patches don't, but with the changes to diplomacy, I fear weirdness in that area. On the other hand, if they've successfully managed to spread out the city states, I may want to start over - I just discovered a huge clump of them an era after another civ got to milk them for first-discovery envoys.
The more pressing question is, will these changes break my current game? Usually patches don't, but with the changes to diplomacy, I fear weirdness in that area. On the other hand, if they've successfully managed to spread out the city states, I may want to start over - I just discovered a huge clump of them an era after another civ got to milk them for first-discovery envoys.
Caprikel
Warlord
Very glad to see that they've listened and have added more ways to get production.
I'd say the next big thing that needs to be buffed is coastal cities in general once again.
They were okish before GS, but now with Climate Change flooding and Hurricanes they've suffered quite a bit,
and not much was added to counteract those changes.
There was the buff to trade routes in Coastal cities, but that only requires a single Coastal city,
so it doesn't necessarily buff multiple coastal cities.
For Hurricanes, maybe they should fertilize coastal tiles to make up for the destruction they cause?
Having fisheries with buffed yields would be great, but right now only land tiles get buffs from storms.
One thing that would help Coastal civs is having more sources of housing early on that don't require
lots of land tiles. Coastal cities won't have room for farms early on, and they're limited on the number
of fish resources they have to get housing from. Housing in general comes from actual physical buildings to house people,
along with access to fresh water. Maybe there could be a housing project specific to coastal cities that adds more
housing in the city? Or maybe Harbors could provide some housing if they're adjacent to a city center?
Maybe cities could have a well building that provides housing from the fresh water?
Anyway, I just realized that this is pretty off topic so I'll stop there.
I'd say the next big thing that needs to be buffed is coastal cities in general once again.
They were okish before GS, but now with Climate Change flooding and Hurricanes they've suffered quite a bit,
and not much was added to counteract those changes.
There was the buff to trade routes in Coastal cities, but that only requires a single Coastal city,
so it doesn't necessarily buff multiple coastal cities.
For Hurricanes, maybe they should fertilize coastal tiles to make up for the destruction they cause?
Having fisheries with buffed yields would be great, but right now only land tiles get buffs from storms.
One thing that would help Coastal civs is having more sources of housing early on that don't require
lots of land tiles. Coastal cities won't have room for farms early on, and they're limited on the number
of fish resources they have to get housing from. Housing in general comes from actual physical buildings to house people,
along with access to fresh water. Maybe there could be a housing project specific to coastal cities that adds more
housing in the city? Or maybe Harbors could provide some housing if they're adjacent to a city center?
Maybe cities could have a well building that provides housing from the fresh water?
Anyway, I just realized that this is pretty off topic so I'll stop there.
Interesting overall sweep of the basic ruleset.. but, i am quite hyped by the "enhanced" Diplomacy dynamics being re-worked (ways to gain those 20 points, etc) to fix the already controversial systems. This is the kind of major concept (DiploVictory++) that allows for worthy replayability factors.
Curious how it will all react with any other issues as time progress -- gameplay balance has its weird limits or silly obstacles. Good steps in the right direction i have to assume.
Curious how it will all react with any other issues as time progress -- gameplay balance has its weird limits or silly obstacles. Good steps in the right direction i have to assume.
bengalryan9
Emperor
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I'm a little nervous to see how these Diplo Victory changes play out:
1) Getting one victory point each time you vote for a winning resolution sounds interesting, but you can definitely game the system because there are certain ways the AI always votes. If the resolution is concerning which district buildings get a production boost, ALWAYS throw one vote to city center because it always wins. If there's a resolution about unit costs being increased or decreased, ALWAYS vote for the +100% faith cost. The AI never seems to care about the culture bombs, so vote for yourself and reap a free victory point every time. All of these have a chance of appearing multiple times throughout the game, so that's potentially a lot of easy victory points if they haven't addressed how the AI votes on these.
2) The new military aid emergency looked like it gives 2 victory points for winning by donating a ton of gold to whoever calls for it. It seems like this is an emergency that could come up a LOT during the course of a game especially if you're playing with Alexander, Genghis, etc. I could see this introducing a lot more victory points than Firaxis maybe intended for it to, because I think the AI will always try to call for this emergency during war. Also, I hope this emergency doesn't drag on for the full 30 turns... it should end whenever the war does (which could lead to some interesting decisions about when to make donations).
3) I do think it's interesting that the new diplo changes make having a strong economy more of a boone. You could theoretically buy your way to a lot of victory points through emergencies (military and natural disaster).
4) If there's so many more ways to gain points, are there any other ways to lose them? Only being able to subtract 2 points from one person every session might not be enough if there are so many points being handed out via resolutions and emergencies. I feel like this should be tied into grievances somehow (ie, if you earn X amount of grievances world wide you lose 1 point, but your grievances are halved), but not sure exactly what a good balance would be. Could be connected to carbon emissions, too.
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Other than that, I really hope they've done something to Rock Bands. I loathe how they work right now, though I realize others don't seem to dislike them as much as I do. They just seem too powerful for such a low cost, while being highly dependent on luck (which I have very little of, because when I try to use them they always, always, ALWAYS retire super early). The only Rock Band thing they showed was a buff (the dark age card)! Blech. I don't want to mod them out of the game, but I'm really close to doing it...
1) Getting one victory point each time you vote for a winning resolution sounds interesting, but you can definitely game the system because there are certain ways the AI always votes. If the resolution is concerning which district buildings get a production boost, ALWAYS throw one vote to city center because it always wins. If there's a resolution about unit costs being increased or decreased, ALWAYS vote for the +100% faith cost. The AI never seems to care about the culture bombs, so vote for yourself and reap a free victory point every time. All of these have a chance of appearing multiple times throughout the game, so that's potentially a lot of easy victory points if they haven't addressed how the AI votes on these.
2) The new military aid emergency looked like it gives 2 victory points for winning by donating a ton of gold to whoever calls for it. It seems like this is an emergency that could come up a LOT during the course of a game especially if you're playing with Alexander, Genghis, etc. I could see this introducing a lot more victory points than Firaxis maybe intended for it to, because I think the AI will always try to call for this emergency during war. Also, I hope this emergency doesn't drag on for the full 30 turns... it should end whenever the war does (which could lead to some interesting decisions about when to make donations).
3) I do think it's interesting that the new diplo changes make having a strong economy more of a boone. You could theoretically buy your way to a lot of victory points through emergencies (military and natural disaster).
4) If there's so many more ways to gain points, are there any other ways to lose them? Only being able to subtract 2 points from one person every session might not be enough if there are so many points being handed out via resolutions and emergencies. I feel like this should be tied into grievances somehow (ie, if you earn X amount of grievances world wide you lose 1 point, but your grievances are halved), but not sure exactly what a good balance would be. Could be connected to carbon emissions, too.
-----
Other than that, I really hope they've done something to Rock Bands. I loathe how they work right now, though I realize others don't seem to dislike them as much as I do. They just seem too powerful for such a low cost, while being highly dependent on luck (which I have very little of, because when I try to use them they always, always, ALWAYS retire super early). The only Rock Band thing they showed was a buff (the dark age card)! Blech. I don't want to mod them out of the game, but I'm really close to doing it...
CivLuvah
Deity
These are all welcome changes! It's making me want to play Civ6 after 4 months!
And
And
WillowBrook
Lurker
Good to see you! Anything in there worth some dancing bananas to you?These are all welcome changes! It's making me want to play Civ6 after 4 months!
And
Phoenix1595
Lord of the Two Lands
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I am really impressed with the patch so far. I am sooooo happy about the new map scripts, and hope that it helps revitalize naval play with more of a need to get to various landmasses more than island plates ever did.
As for the increase in latter-game tech and civic costs, I am happy as an epic/marathon player. Since GS, the mods to help balance gameplay with longer games have ceased to function properly, so I often end up teching faster than the era progression. This almost always starts in the Medieval/Renaissance, when the runaway between player an AI becomes noticeable.
Hopefully, higher tech costs=parity between Era Progression and the player’s actual tech level. Of course, the opposite could happen and the AI becomes so bogged down by expensive techs that there is an even greater disparity between eras and the player’s tech level. Please no Spaceports in the Renaissance!!!
As for the increase in latter-game tech and civic costs, I am happy as an epic/marathon player. Since GS, the mods to help balance gameplay with longer games have ceased to function properly, so I often end up teching faster than the era progression. This almost always starts in the Medieval/Renaissance, when the runaway between player an AI becomes noticeable.
Hopefully, higher tech costs=parity between Era Progression and the player’s actual tech level. Of course, the opposite could happen and the AI becomes so bogged down by expensive techs that there is an even greater disparity between eras and the player’s tech level. Please no Spaceports in the Renaissance!!!
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Ignoring England which has ironically become more German (maybe the monarchy should be German?) with 20% off IZ and +4 prod to each powered IZ building what have they really done?
Workshops are still not that cost worthy, nor factories... and I thought specialists only get +1 if in a T3 building which is near nothing but if it is per specialist it’s OK. A cheaper T3... was there anything else?
Kaan Boztepe
Prince
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Archon_Wing
Vote for me or die
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Lumber mills and quarries are no longer a meme. I always thought pastures were good but I don't object.
Late game building reduction is good, production effects is also good while increasing tech costs.
England's buff to IZs is also good.
Not really sure if that will help Canada. Camps' problem is they really lack food especially in tundra, but we'll have to see. They should buff camps.
Late game building reduction is good, production effects is also good while increasing tech costs.
England's buff to IZs is also good.
Not really sure if that will help Canada. Camps' problem is they really lack food especially in tundra, but we'll have to see. They should buff camps.
SammyKhalifa
Deity
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I like the idea of the specialist buff, but +1 on the Tier 3 building might be a bit not enough to make much of a difference.
criZp
Deity
the specialist slots are not in buildings, but in districts, you don't choose a particular building to put the specialist in after all.
it's a tier 3 building buff first and foremost
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As far as we are concerned they are mostly German with a smattering of Greek madness.
I was hoping we could pretend the Greek was not there
...
The production fix turned out to be in reality to be a fix as @MrRadar said. At least that’s how I see it.
Stilgar08
Emperor
Looks really good to me - and once again bigger than I anticipated.
I'm glad they decided to address pacing the game - my foremost concern at the moment - by production boosts and cost nerfs
DV: have to see what actually happens in game.
Usually I'm not so excited about map stuff but the 7 seas and small continents indeed look awesome!
Minor reflection: navy hopefully will be better in AIs hands...
Concerning the pike and shot:
I'm glad they decided to address pacing the game - my foremost concern at the moment - by production boosts and cost nerfs
DV: have to see what actually happens in game.
Usually I'm not so excited about map stuff but the 7 seas and small continents indeed look awesome!
Minor reflection: navy hopefully will be better in AIs hands...
Concerning the pike and shot:
- as they should be!
criZp
Deity
ok, then how do you stop musketmen if you don't have horses?
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