K-mod Deity Fun -- Collaboration of SGOTM teams

[soundjata]

These are very clear benefits from settling the gold mine first. But are we certain commerce is really our first priority? It's fine to start GLH 4/5 turns sooner, but if it means getting a 2nd settler out 10/15 turns later (pulling these figures out of nowhere, but bear with me ), is it really worth it?

My point is this: by settling Fish/Corn first we are able to shift our expansion production to a second city while cap builds GLH - then gold as city 3 for commerce. If we settle gold first, we get earlier beakers but we still rely entirely on our cap for expansion while still wanting to build GLH.

Settling gold first feels like a gambit... am I talking nonsense?

The capitol (rename please) has a lot of production, hence settler #2 will come shortly after settler #1.

The northern city (pig/fish/corn) will be quite a drag on the economy (needs a big road to get connected to the capitol). Even sailing does not connect it!
If we settle it before the gold, our research rate will go down the drain
We still need Hunting>Archery>Sailing>Masonry. That's a lot of beakers, without a gold mine

OTOH, we should be worried as the northern city will get a high priority in terms of barbarian settling. It needs to be fogbusted ASAP.
Do we have numbers for the earliest possible barb city appearance?

 

[soundjata]

Another thought concerning the settling of Fish and Corn:

Ideally, we'd prefer to settle city #3 on the west coast for sailing connection.

But the 3 tiles wide maze makes this rather difficult: If we settle the corn in the first ring of city #3 (on the west/south coast), there's no way to get the fish in the first ring of a city (on the east/north coast)

 

[UnforcedError]

subscribing to lurk

 

[pomthom]

Settling Fish/Corn does have a lot of downsides, maybe I'm simply underestimating our cap's production capacity...

 

[soundjata]

1 clam + 2 cows + 1 mine = surplus 5 + 10 at size 4.
Setter in 6.66 turns

 

[kossin]

Played as proposed, up to completion of Archery.

Found Darius's capital, unfortunately a barb Archer showed up so I decided to turn around and not scout further north.

Spoiler :

At least, our north is pretty much barb free so we can concentrate on the south.... speaking of which:

Spoiler :

Sailing was queued next but could obviously be changed.

~~~

Any clue why the AIs don't seem to have a second city in trade screen?

Spoiler :

 

[Duckweed]

Looks good. Hopefully we could get a religion soon.

Roster

Duckweed
kossin -- Just Played
Tachywaxon -- UP
Mitchum -- On Deck
soundjata
pomthom
Folket

 

[Duckweed]

Any clue why the AIs don't seem to have a second city in trade screen?

Spoiler :

Maybe it's because the designer want to hide the info. I can't see how many EPs that AIs put on us either.

These are very clear benefits from settling the gold mine first. But are we certain commerce is really our first priority? It's fine to start GLH 4/5 turns sooner, but if it means getting a 2nd settler out 10/15 turns later (pulling these figures out of nowhere, but bear with me ), is it really worth it?

My point is this: by settling Fish/Corn first we are able to shift our expansion production to a second city while cap builds GLH - then gold as city 3 for commerce. If we settle gold first, we get earlier beakers but we still rely entirely on our cap for expansion while still wanting to build GLH.

Settling gold first feels like a gambit... am I talking nonsense?

I guess it's more a matter of playing style. I usually have goals in very stage and all strategies are made around to achieve those goals with flexibility as possible. Early wonders conflict with early expansion. It's a trade of hammers (early expansion) for beakers (mostly). Most of ancient wonders are worthy of sacrificing the expansion. People don't build ancient wonders often in deity level is not because those wonders are weak, but because they can't compete with deity AIs. We have a pretty good chance for GLH (a super strong wonder) with a strong production capital. BTW, GLH costs 300H in K-mod.

Now back to the 2nd city site. The expansion priority in my mind is

Site helps to achieve a critical short-term goal >
Site with critical blocking value >
Site helps REXing >
Site with good resources

The gold site is in both 1st and 3rd category since deity expansion is expensive, while the Corn site is more of the last category site than 3rd before working on improved Fish and Pig, since it can only give 6 hpt when producing a settler. If you want a settler there, it is going to take a couple of dozens turns after you settle it, that's almost the time when capital completes GLH and ready to whip at size 6. The reason why I mentioned techs like Pottery, BW, TW, and Writing is because that they are critical techs for expansion, with both economy and production support. A simple example is that you double your production when whipping with granary.

 

[Manco Capac]

Got it. Tomorrow. I'll look at it.

 

[vranasm]

yeah that was another feature I didn't like much about k-mod, you only see cities which you can see

so if you DoW AI you lose sight of his number of cities for example...

 

[soundjata]

I'll be off the Civ computer from Feb. 1 to 15th.

Mitchum, would you be ok to swap our turnsets?

 

[Mitchum]

Sure...

 

[Manco Capac]

NO!

Will do the rough today and play later tonight.
Barely one day of waiting and people are already thinking swapping. Is it a hurry or what? There is no time limit in this succession game.

 

[Folket]

NO!

Will do the rough today and play later tonight.
Barely one day of waiting and people are already thinking swapping. Is it a hurry or what? There is no time limit in this succession game.

I do not think soundjata swapping with Mitchum is related to waiting for you. No need to feel stressed.

 

[Duckweed]

NO!

Will do the rough today and play later tonight.
Barely one day of waiting and people are already thinking swapping. Is it a hurry or what? There is no time limit in this succession game.

Yes, there's no strict time for each set. Depending on the agreement on your plan, you could finish your set in one day or enjoy the tense arguments for a few day. Do leave other players at least 24 hours to response to your plan since we are not in the same time zone. The main purpose of our SG is discussions and learning than winning.

I also believe that soundjata only told his schedule ahead, that's good for running the game smoothly.

Edit: If you feel the lack of time to propose a plan immediately, you could try to list some potential issues to get the discussion going on, which will also help to finalize your plan.

 

[Manco Capac]

PPP Turnset #3
​

Here are some assumptions first regarding the situation:

1) We are dangerously approaching T40 being the usual landmark of the barb invasions and guys like Suryavarnam certainly won't help the situation (mass expander) by making the barb invasions earlier. Thus, by the time I finish the settler and settle it by the gold, yes, I start to improve it, but take huge risks the time we finish the archer and bring it to Gold city. So Archer first to take place to its position first. Anyways, it seems the team micro worked out very well to make the next growth timing with an archer.

2) Although initially wondering the semi-dangerous fogbusting of the northernly warrior, allowing a fatal barb spawning around the sugar, but thought it was rather well thought as I guess he had in mind barb cities. That grass hill is a perfect spot to stop any barb city to spawn to our second strong city. Will keep that position until a barb show up and I can't complete a defender and thus lure the (archer) towards the plain hill. Should be sufficient to trigger the attack. Nonetheless, we shall be careful. The barbs are more dangerous than stock BTS ones as they can totally ignored strongly defended units to gun towards cities. Nonetheless, one constant is when next to a city, it almost always attack. And btw, it seems Karadoc modified the pathfinder as barbs prefer to attack diagonally now or simply remain the longest possible outside enemy culture.

UNITS​

Warrior 1: Keep the position against possible barb city spawns as we all know the 2-tiles don't work for barb cities.

Warrior 2: Keep the position unless a barb archer stands by him.

SinoWorker: Continue the PH mine. Then, I think, given the lack of work, perhaps use it for temporary southern fogbusting. We know animals aren't there anymore.

Archer (T36): Will head south while being between potential gold city site and capital to be able to intervene if a barb unit decides to show up too early and beeline the capital.

Settler (T39): Will settle Gold city 1W of the gold tile. Minimum maintenance and no point to push into icey lands.

CITIES​

Capital: Archer ==> Settler ==> Decide between warrior to fogbust near sugar (risky) or archer (secure play). Nonetheless, our cows are an endangered specie. Those barbs will raep them.

Gold City: Archer while working Gold. We never know what kind of bad luck might happen upon us. I have seen K-mod barbs attempting to gather units to attack all at once. And two archers are the perfect secure play. If the archer is badly wounded, the warrior won't be that efficient. And the other interesting use would be to put the archer on top of the gold mine, for a similar defense bonus and no chance the barb decides to pillage it.

TECHS​

Sailing ==> Masonry

 

[Manco Capac]

All sorry for being on the defensive.

 

[Manco Capac]

Yes, there's no strict time for each set. Depending on the agreement on your plan, you could finish your set in one day or enjoy the tense arguments for a few day. Do leave other players at least 24 hours to response to your plan since we are not in the same time zone. The main purpose of our SG is discussions and learning than winning.

I also believe that soundjata only told his schedule ahead, that's good for running the game smoothly.

Edit: If you feel the lack of time to propose a plan immediately, you could try to list some potential issues to get the discussion going on, which will also help to finalize your plan.

Nah, at this point, I had no problem with the problem. Just time issue.

I do not think soundjata swapping with Mitchum is related to waiting for you. No need to feel stressed.

I overreacted. After reading a second time, I saw it had nothing to do with me.

yeah that was another feature I didn't like much about k-mod, you only see cities which you can see

so if you DoW AI you lose sight of his number of cities for example...

Is it true about losing city list being at war. I play a mod having implemented the latest K-mod dll and if I have their latest maps, war or not, I get cities list.

Maybe it's because the designer want to hide the info. I can't see how many EPs that AIs put on us either.

Yes, you can't see. It's annoying, but it repairs unbeknowst to him the little advantage human had to calculate how many hammers are invested into a wonder through espionage screen for production. Now, it's more of an intuition than the exact number. Number of abuses I did came from that espionage screen.

 

[soundjata]

PPP Turnset #3
​

Plan is looking good

I haven't looked at the game and our fogbusting situation.

In case of barb encounter, I'd suggest you pause for a vote (and not take the full responsibility of a unit dying at low odds )

 

[Folket]

It seems like we have three warriors. I guess the warrior in the NW should go east to help with fogbusting.