Kerch strait crisis

red_elk said:
You should specify, recognized by who.
Chechnya is also a recognized part of Russia, Taiwan is recognized part of China and Kosovo is recognized part of Serbia.
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What's your point? And Crimea is part of Ukraine, yet Russia refuses to acknowledge that, going so far as to aid and abet literal terrorists.

red_elk said:
A country can invade its breakaway province.
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That province is still however a part of said country.
 
1024px-UN_Resolution_regarding_the_territorial_integrity_of_Ukraine.svg.png


Guess the map 2.0.

Anyway it doesnt matter who recognise what either. At the end it is a matter of who has the factual power to enforce his will, whatever it is.
 
red_elk said:
Ukraine can and could use the passage, as far as I understand. But right for unimpeded access doesn't mean you can ignore rules of passage and just go whenever and wherever you want.
During the incident, yes, the strait was blocked for Ukrainian and Russian civilian vessels, for less than a day.
The rules of passage are straightforward, a ship must only give a notification in 24 hours before a passage and confirm it in 4 hours in advance.

The Ukrainian navy boats didn't request a passage, only approached the bridge and tried to break through.
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First, this raises questions about on what authority does Russia get to set unilateral rules; second this raises question to what extent are those rules set to deliberately frustrate Ukraine.

From what I understand of maritime conventions, innocent passage generally requires no prior notification whatsoever.
 
Yeekim said:
First, this raises questions about on what authority does Russia get to set unilateral rules; second this raises question to what extent are those rules set to deliberately frustrate Ukraine.
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This is the right approach to the problem. I'm sure neither side is completely innocent here.

Yeekim said:
From what I understand of maritime conventions, innocent passage generally requires no prior notification whatsoever.
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One does not simply go to Azov Sea.
There are several major ports, all traffic goes through the bridge arch. I can imagine this requires all sorts of regulations, navigation assistance, etc. Requesting prior notification seems reasonable in this case.

Imagine a Russian nuclear cruiser barging into Estonian waters without notification, disrupting traffic. This sure as hell won't be an innocent passage.
 
Is there a solution to stop all this bravado? Is anyone even talking solutions anymore?
 
Estebonrober said:
Is there a solution to stop all this bravado? Is anyone even talking solutions anymore?
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Punish Russia even further with sanctions, ostracise it from the world, point out at every turn that it is a failed, kleptocratic state. We shouldn't be extending any sort of trust or faith in them, they've shown their true colours at this point.
 
On September 25, 2018, the floating workshop "Donbass" and the tug "Koreyets" accompanied by the boats "Lubny" and "Kremenchug" passed through the same strait. At that time, the application for the passage was framed correctly and they were not hindered.

This time the boats were detained in the Russian territorial waters. And these territorial waters were Russian and before the reunification of the Crimea and Russia.
 
Cloud_Strife said:
South ossetia is a recognised part of Georgian territory. You cannot invade your own territory, however Russia does seem to have a fondness for invading other sovereign, independent countries that it considers to be their territory, strange that.

The world should stop tolerating Russian aggression and punish it even more severely.
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Yes Yes. Texas territory of Mexico. US territory of the British Empire ... Puerto Rico independence do not want to give? Opinion of the local population you do not exactly take into account.
GDR and FRG also united. Who is a terrorist? Merkel? We will bomb Germany or impose sanctions against them?:whipped:
 
Cloud_Strife said:
Punish Russia even further with sanctions, ostracise it from the world, point out at every turn that it is a failed, kleptocratic state. We shouldn't be extending any sort of trust or faith in them, they've shown their true colours at this point.
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This seems highly unlikely given current geopolitical relationships. Trump in the US, Europe dealing with internal issues. China couldn't be bothered.
 
And i have exactly the same level of sympathy for Russians as the Russian government has for the foreign citizens of the countries it has attacked militarily and domestically; that is to say none.
 
red_elk said:
You are welcome to propose one, this is a discussion thread.


Yeah and make Russians support Putin even more.
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I have nothing lol. Russia is a bad actor and completely un beholden to any international norms anymore. Internally its a hot mess. Ukraine isn't much better at this point, what trust I had in their government is basically gone. I don;t know if that is deserved or if Russian misinformation has worked its magic.
 
Cloud_Strife said:
And i have exactly the same level of sympathy for Russians as the Russian government has for the foreign citizens of the countries it has attacked militarily and domestically; that is to say none.
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What's the point in declaration that you don't like Russians? Nobody cares.
 
A Russian court has sentenced the Ukrainian sailors to two months in gaol.
 
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