Keshiks in MP ?

[whyidie]

Not a multiplayer, but do have a question for those that play frequently.

In my most recent single player game Mongolia was running away with it. They had a good amount of Keshiks (I counted at least 10). He was top of the charts on pointy sticks. I hadn't got to knights and had no companion cavalry for the start of the war.

So I had no mounted units, and still had hoplites. The only thing I had to my advantage were I was on defense, and between good gold and production I could churn out a unit once a turn for about 10 turns.

In this scenario I thought that even with a moderately competent human in control of Mongolia it would have been game over. Which brings me to my question. All things being relatively equal (tech level, # of units, player skill) is there a really effective counter to Keshiks ?

 

[Tabarnak]

If you can sneak a horse into his territory to pillage his horse tiles it's already a great start(while his army is amassed near your territory).

Best way to counter this guy is probably attacking him before he do(before Chivalry). If you have to defend without the possibility to do what i described, it's, of course, a huge task.

There is some civs that can be appropriated aginst him like Arabia and Germany. You can reach Machinery before he reaches Chivalry. Use this advantage and go kill his horsemen before he will upgrade them.

Once he gets all his UUs and is stuck into your territory there is a few chances for you to win the war unless you got a really good land in favor of it(defence, production, etc).

The Great Wall can be a good addition.

 

[Yalish]

The good thing about keshiks as opposed to camel archers is that they're actually relatively weak -- massed knights will really do a number on them.

 

[RStark]

You can play as the Iroquoes.

These forest dwellers are very good in defending against keshiks, if played properly.
The civ has a forest biased start. Don't cut the wood, just place your other cities among the forest tiles. Forest tiles (even hilled forest) within your territory will be regarded as free roads. They will significantly reduce MP cost for your units, so you can easily trace down keshiks with your knights and horsemen. The forest tiles will also hinder a shot sight of enemy keshiks.

In order to increase the growth rate of your cultural borders and include more forested tiles, you can take Tradition policy opener.
The Great Wall will be greatly beneficial for that kind of defense strategy.

PS I guess that the Inca can be of the same value to counter massed keshiks or arabian UU. They can use a similar strategy assisted by hill tiles instead of forests.

 

[Silverfuturist]

Not a multiplayer, but do have a question for those that play frequently.

In my most recent single player game Mongolia was running away with it. They had a good amount of Keshiks (I counted at least 10). He was top of the charts on pointy sticks. I hadn't got to knights and had no companion cavalry for the start of the war.

So I had no mounted units, and still had hoplites. The only thing I had to my advantage were I was on defense, and between good gold and production I could churn out a unit once a turn for about 10 turns.

In this scenario I thought that even with a moderately competent human in control of Mongolia it would have been game over. Which brings me to my question. All things being relatively equal (tech level, # of units, player skill) is there a really effective counter to Keshiks ?

If you play Huns, you can kill him before he gets to Chivalry.
Like Tabernak said, a Machinery rush will happen before Chivalry rush. Longbows are especially deadly.
Also, there is a recent post on how to do a Compound Bow rush.

Now assuming that by the he isn't close enough to rush early in the game, and war will happen when he has chivarly. Place your cities very carefully - so that he has to cross rivers to shoot your cities, there are hills/jugle/woods blocking his view, and you have a road network for your mounted units. Knights with double promotions (and hopefully herioic epic) can stomp on those weak Keshiks.

That all being said, having to face Mongolia in their era can be really tough in many situations.

 

[apocalypse105]

Go straight to crosbowman and knights that will crush him.

 

[whyidie]

Thanks for the advice gents. Hadn't considered terrain advantages of others Civs before! Will prioritize knights....if I can't get him off the map early