Kick'n it with the legion

Polearms. I remember reading that there would unit-combat changes in the future, but this is the first bit of detail I've found.

Could you please explain a bit more, or will I instead need to throw a sock at you?
Valkrionn told us many times that there will be new unit_combat in 1.4 or 1.5 ? well.. some of the big changes that will be gifted to us before 21.12.2012 :D (but as to what will be in those new unit_combat, and how the tech tree/civics...Etc will change... we have to ... SPECULATE WILDLY :eekdance:)
 
yeah, patrons AFTER they showed their talent. that hardly combats my argument?!

Possibly we both miss each others argument. Mine is that most people, regardless of their vocation, were poor. Take any feature of humans that doesn't directly depend on wealth, for instance height, and you'll find that most people that possess that feature are/were poor. That does not mean that poor people are tall.

Then I pointed out that some people became wealthy due to their artistic talent, which I realize now only clouded my argument.

you have a poor picture of an artists live. art has never been a good way to get rich, not in past, not today. there are exceptions, but there always are.

Art is a great way to get wealthy. Elton John, Lady Gaga, Michael Jackson, Eminem, Arnold Schwarzenegger, James Cameron, George Lucas... Sure, most artists don't get wealthy, but that's because most people don't get wealthy.

There are better ways to get money, but art is fairly good.

edit: And of course you are perfectly free to dislike the Scions, for whatever reason. I myself vaguely dislike the D'Tesh for having a bit too much lore.
 
Art might not be reliable, but good artists are generally made rich by their art if they weren't already.
 
Same with the Emperor. He is just a man. He also happens to be the Emperor and a god, but that doesn't make him a bad person.

I think he's the Archangel of Esus.
 
i refuse to call some of the persons you named artists, as in 'people who produce art' :D
if then only on a very limitied base. as in: some of Schwarzeneggers movies are popular and cool but calling them art will earn you a 'yes absolutely!' only from a very limitied audience.

furthermore much that is produced today is called art only because it provokes or to enhance its own value.
for example hollywood is producing many entertaining movies (i like and enjoy) but i would never call anything coming from the hollywork works "art". i can be art-like, or have a high standart in some rare cases, or be of great craftmanship. but it isnt art. same goes for directors, although there are people that are surely more near to the term of beeing an artist (and where even i would admit they are), steven spielberg (not in all of his films!) as an example.
same goes for literature. what Stephen King does isnt art. Michael Crichton isnt art. Friedrich Dürrenmatt is an artist. Patrick Süsskind is an artist. the only german-speaking ones of our times i can think of at the moment. im sure there are others ;)

of course there are also certain forms of art that have been and are more popular than others in different times of history. for example painting. the line of people who can make a living with selling paintings nowadays is very thin, yet existent (which is surely to do a tier of new-riches who would pay for anything that looks unusual and provokes :rolleyes: )

music is possibly the most difficult of all questions on what is art and what not.

this is a difficult topic and im SURE you have a different opinion. everyone has. this is mine.

/edit: im sorry for the amount of offtopic i produce...

/edit: will the legion get any new leaders? cant find the link to the new leaders chart...
found it! god bless the blog.
 
So far in 1.3 I played 2 games.

The first one was with the D'Tesh. I've never dominated a game so quickly and thoroughly. Right away I wiped out a bunch of civs around me with promoted scouts, which gave me more settlers than I needed and a bunch of slaves. Then the empty area around me provided a constant flow of barbarians and barbarian cities which gave me even more slaves and settlers. I wish there was something I could do with all those settlers besides build cities (I had a ton of them just sitting around with nothing to do) but this civ is already super powerful.

My second game was with the Scions. It took me a bit longer to build up a dominate empire without wiping out all my neighbors but it was a very rich and productive empire that soon cultually dominated it's neigbors and destroyed it's enemies.

The D'Tesh and the Scions are definately my favorate civs. They have some similarities but are both unique and extremely powerful once you know how to use them. The only problem is that it would be hard for me to go back to playing those slow growing, food based civs. I wonder if the orignal FFH creator has played these civs and experienced all the great things that has been added to his mod?
 
i refuse to call some of the persons you named artists, as in 'people who produce art' :D

Come up with any objective standard by to determine "artistness" and I bet I'll be able to find someone who is rich and fits the criteria or doesn't fit but you would want to call an artist.

But that's unimportant, in the context of Civ IV, all those people are Artist specialists.
 
Polearms. I remember reading that there would unit-combat changes in the future, but this is the first bit of detail I've found.

Could you please explain a bit more, or will I instead need to throw a sock at you?

I shall not. :p

Just know that we took existing unitlines, and sanitized them. The only wholesale addition is Polearms, but even they are, for the most part, made up of existing units. We are adding many new unitcombats, and each will have a specific role, but are only adding around 6 new units to fill those lines.

I think he's the Archangel of Esus.

No, but he IS an angel of Esus. The Angel of Good Intentions.... And really, by disobeying Esus (becoming good) he is maintaining his sphere. He is one of few angels of an evil god who has not truly fallen.

For that matter, Korinna is the daughter of Gyra, Archangel of Death.
 
I shall not. :p

Just know that we took existing unitlines, and sanitized them. The only wholesale addition is Polearms, but even they are, for the most part, made up of existing units. We are adding many new unitcombats, and each will have a specific role, but are only adding around 6 new units to fill those lines.
SOCK!
No, but he IS an angel of Esus. The Angel of Good Intentions.... And really, by disobeying Esus (becoming good) he is maintaining his sphere. He is one of few angels of an evil god who has not truly fallen.

For that matter, Korinna is the daughter of Gyra, Archangel of Death.

:crazyeye: Has there even posted an explanation of "In a Bright Land"? I've read it about three times now, but I always end up getting distracted and confused and I forget where am I in it and did you know that Bruce Willis' character was dead the whole time?
 
i dont 'hate'(better dislike) the scions for beeing unplayable or something. i just hardly dislike their concept. i tend to play civs i like/can identify with/i like the atmosphere.

scions have a concept. they have many concepts, actually too many.

The Scions of Patria are an undead, transhumanist society built on the chassis of Rome but with Egypt's leadership engine. The entirety of their lore can fit somewhere into that sentence, and while that's longer then "horse mercenaries" , it's not too bad when you look at it that way.


Art is subjective. Popular conceptions of art occur because, all of us being social troop-based animals, certain tastes and interests tend to permeate cultures and countries more readily at any given time. But those conceptions change from time to time, culture to culture, and even among two individuals with the same general taste, exact standards tend to show some variance.

There's no point talking about who is and isn't an artist, and what is and isn't art. Critics, philosophers, artists, and art patrons constantly argue over exactly this, and despite all sides bringing up valid points and perspectives, even at the highest levels of sophistication there are no ultimately definitive criteria other then "somebody thinks it's art".
 
undead, transhumanist society

"Undead transhumanists". Perfect, and no longer than "horse mercenaries". No need to mention the roman stuff or anything. After all, you don't mention the artstyle of the Hippus.

"somebody thinks it's art".

And this is exactly my criteria for whether something is art or not.
 
Art is subjective. Popular conceptions of art occur because, all of us being social troop-based animals, certain tastes and interests tend to permeate cultures and countries more readily at any given time. But those conceptions change from time to time, culture to culture, and even among two individuals with the same general taste, exact standards tend to show some variance.

There's no point talking about who is and isn't an artist, and what is and isn't art. Critics, philosophers, artists, and art patrons constantly argue over exactly this, and despite all sides bringing up valid points and perspectives, even at the highest levels of sophistication there are no ultimately definitive criteria other then "somebody thinks it's art".

agreed. never stated anything different than that.
 
:crazyeye: Has there even posted an explanation of "In a Bright Land"? I've read it about three times now, but I always end up getting distracted and confused and I forget where am I in it and did you know that Bruce Willis' character was dead the whole time?

There is. It goes something like this: Rahserat, Angel of Good Intentions, is being used by Esus in a power-play to gain more souls and corrupt the domain of Death, so he is sent to arrange events that keep Laroth (master of Spirit magic - I believe one of Kylorin's students) headed down a dark path.

This results (and this is original canon) in Laroth using his incredible control over Spirit to twist the minds and souls of the dead who share Arawn's Vault with him, building up a massive powerbase under the nose of the God of Death himself, possible because Arawn is a pretty lax God who hates his new precept. Now that the time is ripe, Esus brokers a deal with Ceridwen to get his agent (Rahserat) into Arawn's Vault as well, to court Laroth and gain his support for Esus, allowing an eventual takeover.

Rahserat does his job, but it depresses him, and the mutable nature of the Vault responds to his feelings and fears, creating a second (false) Laroth based off Rahserat's dismal self-image. Gyra the Archangel of Death helps him out and eventually reveals what his subconscious has done, because she knows he never fell, and so he ends up with a majority share in the souls of Patria, siphoning them away from both Laroth and Arawn to his created False Laroth.

Realizing the power in his hands could go to Esus or could be used for good, Gyra decides to trust him (always had decided) and arranges for his escape from the Vault, with all these souls under his command, and asks that he take along her daughter Korinna ("She cannot...grow....here") to Erebus. Rahserat agrees, and promptly gets owned when he tries to leave, discovering that Esus had tricked Ceridwen and she was pretty pissed off, leaving a trap for Rahserat. Esus had likely planned to sneak his angel out when the time was right and avoid this, but Rahserat had left on his own without informing his God...

So Ceridwen stashes him in her God-killing trap meant for the One, possibly as a test, possibly to trap Esus too, possibly because she knew Rahserat never fell and hoped to lure the One out, possibly because she is seriously incredibly insane. The nature of this trap unifies all things with each other, a zone of total change and yet total stasis, where creation is impossible - the idea would be to seal off the One from being able to do anything without granting everyone and everything an equal share of his power. Rahserat goes insane and drifts through various transformations as the souls that are still tithing to him from the False Laroth arrive and begin to do the same, things of death merging with things of life. This is what will later be known as the Bottomless Tomb.

On Erebus, Korinna has been waiting for Rahserat for centuries, endlessly, straight through the Age of Ice, a little crazy at times herself. There is a gate she's supposed to open for him, but since he got waylaid and never arrived, she can only try again each year on the appointed date of his coming. Eventually she breaks the gate and goes nuts for a while, then comes back to herself and begins to repair the gate. Some combination of her more-then-mortal blood and the nature of the artifact cause its nature to slowly shift as she rebuilds it: where once it led to a passage from Arawn's realm, it now began to turn to Rahserat himself, in his present location...and when she finally finished, Rahserat was able to "hear" her through her blood infused into the gateway and thus deduce its existence, now a part of the Bottomless Tomb. Finally with an exit, he breaks through into Erebus, becoming the Risen Emperor.

And after he has built the beginnings of Patria Reborn, realizes the truth that Gyra knew all along: he is still the unfallen Angel of Good Intentions, and has a choice between that, and between falling for Esus to become the Angel of Regret. The idea was that you'd get a special event depending on whether your alignment (under Rahserat) shifted to Good or Evil, but modular alignment doesn't really allow such a dramatic shift without religion at this point, and Rahserat is agnostic.

TL;DR VERSION: The Risen Emperor is an Angel of Esus who gathered the souls of Patria under his banner, then led them out into Erebus. He is not yet a fallen angel, and must choose between remaining true to Esus and tithing these souls to him in furtherance of Armageddon, or upholding his precept and making the lie of Patria Reborn a reality under his righteous leadership.
 
That part is totally believable and explains everything.

Korinna's a bit of an oddity without a strong relation to...anything, but she's cute, so we forgive her. FUN FACT: As OP as the D'teshi are, they can't usually get Mages before you get Bronze Working and Fanaticism. And then she's not just cute. She's adorable.
 
Korinna's a bit of an oddity without a strong relation to...anything, but she's cute, so we forgive her. FUN FACT: As OP as the D'teshi are, they can't usually get Mages before you get Bronze Working and Fanaticism. And then she's not just cute. She's adorable.
i'd still like to her see riding a dinosaur

@viatos: thanks a lot, im much wiser now. some things begin to make sense, concerning the scions.
 
I wish there was something I could do with all those settlers besides build cities (I had a ton of them just sitting around with nothing to do) but this civ is already super powerful.

I agree 100% now that I have played around with them, they do seem to pile up on settlers a bit much. I wish there was a way to just attach them to existing cities or maybe just sacrifice them for some combat bonuses (for a limited number of turns) or just some raw exp for a unit in the same stack as them. I don't know if this is possible (not really familiar with the whole modding thing, as I could never get anything I did to work).

Also D'Tesh himself seems a bit over powered. If he could only respawan set number of times instead of whenever he dies. or better yet every time he dies you have to sacrifice two settlers to bring him back into the game (again I have no clue if this is possible or not).

But all in all up until yesterday I dominated everything the quickest while playing as the Mechanos, but now the Legion has to be the top speed for a win (less then a few hours, and I play with a huge map and as many options on as possible to make the game as long as possible while still being able to play).
 
Thank you Viatos, so much!
 
O and also I would like to ask if there is a published version of the cannon available for view? Like an official set of lore and legends for Erebus? I would love to read up on some of it, or maybe put it all together if there is not so others can.

Really I feel RIFE is more a game of its own than just a mod. Thanks to all who were and are currently involved in it creation for making a game for us to play! You guys should write one of your own, I'm sure a lot of us on here would love to see you guys have your own studio.
 
Back
Top Bottom