Killing Someone

[Chazumi]

So,

I am a 21 year old Male. I have enlisted in the U.S. Army as an Infantryman (11Bravo), we are scheduled to deploy in 30 days from today. Everyone that I talk to has nothing but negative things to say about Iraq, being there, the deaths, what it is like to lose close friends and what not.

So It got me to thinking, what would you feel, do, and experience if you were to kill someone? Even if it was from an insurgency dedicated to the destruction of your government and your heretic views on life?

I joined as an infantryman because I decided if I was going to join the Army, i wasn't going to be "Chairborne", I was going to be part of the fight. There really is only 2 parts to the army, those who fight, and those who support those who fight. So I am anxious to know what my fellow Civ-Fans think, If you were to join, what would it do to you physically, mentally, and morally to kill someone? Even if they were opposed to your entire way of life? (and no it doesn't mean you have to be fighting for the U.S., because I know a lot of you are non-US citizens.

 

[BEHIND_THE_MASK]

In all ways, Im a cold, crude, sarcastic person. The loss of life, to me, means nothing unless it is a loved one or friend. Thats is, only if i killed someone. If I killed an Iraqi, I would not think about any of the dead man's family, cause 'kill or be killed" is especially nescisarry here. If I killed someone, I wouldn't try and forgot it, I wouldn't become depressed. Nor would I enjoy it.

Though, unless you actually do kill, you can never be positive of how you will react.

 

[Mercenary82]

As a former 13Bravo myself (artillery), I wouldn't feel anything really about having to kill insurgents, they knew what they were getting into when they joined the insurgency.

 

[Lotus49]

As a professional soldier, you shouldn't think about it - you just perform as you're trained. Eventually it will hit you, though - later on.

Different people have different ways of dealing with it, mentally - some more successful than others. Take my 2 grandfathers for example:

One, a fighter/ground attack (P-38) pilot, did low-level straffing runs against enemy personnel in Europe, body parts flying all over the place, as his machine guns tore into the enemy ranks. After he returned home, he couldn't deal with it. His life basically was over, he was nothing but a manic-depressed alcoholic, his wife & son left him, and no one ever stayed in contact with him. He lived to his 80s, (we think) but like I said, his life was over, for all intents and purposes.

The other grandfather, a paratrooper in the Pacfic, fought the Japs in close, personal hand-to-hand combat. Some of his stories - it's amazing I'm even here. Anyway, he had no trouble dealing with it. I guess the Army's propaganda actually made him believe the Japanese were sub-human, and had evil intentions (throwing the little babies in the Manilla up in the air, catching them on their bayonets, etc.) After the war, he was a war-hardened man, but no psyche problems at all... just don't let any of his relatives eat rice, buy Jap cars, etc. etc. He has a real hatred and distrust of them. Maybe that's what justified his actions, thus keeping his conscience clear.


Anyway, when I was in the Marines, I knew some guys that had seen combat, and waxed a few enemy fighters (plus my cousin went to Afghanistan, etc). Some of them had some real obvious issues in dealing with it, not too long after returning back.

Personally, I would say it depends on your own mindset & outlook. If you really believe these targets you're going to be firing at - will make the world a better place once they're dead, and you can keep a clean conscience about it, then hey, whatever. But, just be sure you know you're that kind of person.

Some of the "hardest" people I've known have had serious issues with this. I knew a guy that was in the Navy - a Sonar tech, but for some unusual reason he wound up transferred onto a Coast Guard cutter one time, patrolling the Caribbean for drug-runners. He was manning a .50 cal position when they approached a suspected smuggling boat. Suddenly he started receiving fire - and instincitvely proceeded to waste everyone on board with his .50 cal. You'd think this guy was a 'natural killer', he later joined the Army, became a Ranger, etc. But, that was the only time he ever killed. And, he had trouble dealing with it, deep down as his life progressed.

You never know what kind of person you are, until you live it. Me personally, I'd rather leave this world, never having to kill. Hopefully that can be the case.

 

[capslock]

A reporter once asked an anonymous sniper in Afaghanistan what he felt when he killed an enemy insurgent. The sniper thought quietly for a moment before answering: "Recoil."

I don't think it would be that hard to kill someone in war. People have been doing it forever, if it were so difficult, there would be no war.

 

[Lotus49]

Of course it's not difficult when you're young, trained, fired up, motivated, got a little bit of anger, in the heat of battle, and mission-oriented with your comrades.

It's later on, when you reflect...

 

[theimmortal1]

Killing the enemy is like stepping on an ant. Do you worry about that? It is just a screwed up moral code that this world has created that makes us feel bad for killing an enemy...

Do we feel bad when we spray a can of raid on some bees? No. So don't feel bad now.

 

[Prince_Imrahil]

because ants and people are the same.

But anyways, its a fact of life that people kill people, always have, always, unfortunately, will, so as long as you agree with yourself that you're doing it for the right reasons. you don't have to like it, or hate yourself for it. If you think it's going to be a hard thing to deal with, the army frontlines is a bad place to put yourself.

 

[Shaihulud]

The 6 months of basic training is to condition aggression into you. I believe at that point, anyone can be ordered to kill and maim. The level of aggression and willingness to kill depends largely on the nature of training and vocation that you will be assigned. Since you doubt your ability to kill means that you have been at it for some times. Its a good thing because it means you have remembered your instinct for self preservation. Im sure your training will carry you through, or at least thats what those who survived military action says.

 

[Shylock]

So It got me to thinking, what would you feel, do, and experience if you were to kill someone? Even if it was from an insurgency dedicated to the destruction of your government

I'd feel pretty bad. I'm with them in that respect, though not quite as a drastically.

 

[emzie]

I recently (over the summer) met my wife's uncle who fought in the Lebanese Civil War with Amal against the PLO. He didn't speak much, but his sister (my Mother-in-law) said he was very very torn up about what happened. She said it's one thing to defend your home against an attacker and another to be that attacker.

I'd say that you need to understand your beliefs before you goto Iraq. Why are you going, why is the US there, why do people think you should not go?

Killing the enemy is like stepping on an ant. Do you worry about that? It is just a screwed up moral code that this world has created that makes us feel bad for killing an enemy...

Do we feel bad when we spray a can of raid on some bees? No. So don't feel bad now.

And what theatre did you see action in.

 

[Stevenpfo]

You don't feel much at the time besides adrenaline. Lots of people int eh thread were correct: training does take over. You don't think about political views in combat. Sometimes you worry more about your friend next to you getting shot more than you worry about yourself.

You get lots of time to think about everything else later on.

 

[Millman]

Globalization is at work, and it is recommended you refine your talents into a business instead of a governments military because you might become a pawn of it no matter how free it claims to be.

 

[theimmortal1]

Many of you seem to not get my point. It is a new modern social construct that we are supposed to feel all this compassion. This is a moral code created by a certain sect of society. What makes it right? It seems many of you have not thought about it.

Humans are not wired to feel this way. It is created. Some society leave their babies to die. In history there are tons and tons of bloodthirsty cultures. They surely didn't shed tears as they conquered lands.

It is a modern invention. In other words, don't develop your moral code based upon others or based upon whats on tv. Figure out what you value, why you value, and how you want to live your life...and live off of that.

 

[Stevenpfo]

Sometimes when you kill in combat you don't feel so bad about the guy you just shot/blew up (maybe depending on the situation) so much as a lot of other things going on. Maybe a friend of yours was killed. Maybe everything that was going on overwhelmed you. People don't always feel so bad about the actual killing. It's everything else.

 

[Millman]

What a previous post meant = It comes down to social-acceptablity.

Yeah, I knew, I said it a few months ago.

 

[Yeeek]

You should really consider another job if the thought of taking someone's life is so heavy on shoulder.

Thought, i wouldn't feel bad for waxing terrorists willing to blow up people for the heck of it.

 

[cidknee]

well i can asnswer this from peronal experience.

Congrats on joinging the army, good luck to you. Remember, check EVERYTHING.
I learned in basic a few simple rules for combat, Drill Instructors dont yell like that for they're health, they do it so you will remember it. And believe me you do.

" When the bullets start flying, hit the ground, pee yer pants and return fire"

Yeah, I was walking along and the bullets started flying, I dropped behind a small brick wall, peed my pants, and took a look around, grabbed my rifle, found the target and fired.

shooting stopped.

checked my unit, we were fine, enemy wasnt.
It was all adreneline, and the training does take over. But I will say this, nothing enters yer mind other than the situation. I knew that there was a bad guy out there, I knew I wanted me to live over him, and I did what I though I needed to keep ME alive.

Training and natural instict takes over.

Good luck to you, godspeed.

 

[CaptainF]

I've thought a lot about this.

I wouldn't have a problem killing people who I know are sadistic bastards. Saddam, Osama, Kim Jong-Il, I really do believe (though I can't be certain) that I could stiffen all of them up.

But the thing is, when you're on a battlefield, how can you be sure that everyone out there is evil? On one level or another, people are all the same. It would kind of trip me out to kill someone who has the same sort of desires, ambitions, etc. as me.

But when it comes down to it, it's that whole honor amongst soldiers thing. Me and my victim both knew the stakes at hand, both went into battle willingly, and both were ready to kill one another, I just happened to have my finger move a little faster.

I guess my big problem would be if I were fighting an army of drafted people who weren't willing to fight. Or if I killed someone who wasn't willing to fight. That would get to me.

 

[El_Machinae]

The biggest problem you'll have, eventually, is wondering why the man you killed was an enemy. Odds are that he wasn't actually evil.