King of the hill - open challange for all playlevels

[mzprox]

Some other bits

-I was suprised that i got a serious war weariness penalty..come on: in an always war game?? having that national wonder and jail in all my cities and still got like 4 unhappyness

-Is the Ai cheating or i just don't know something? In the russian trap city every turn appeared 1-3 new units. How is that possible? they were marines, artillerys whatever. The city was not coastal and there was no way he could transport them. The city size was 1 (with no tile to use). So slavery/drafting out of the question. He could rush buy one unit/turn, but he get more than one and buying those units in every turn it must be too expensive even for him.

-i had uranium, probably it was a lucky event and i have considered launching a nuclear attack, but i was afraid that i cannot win that way and later i would get nuked back to stone aqe. So i was happy to sign that UN proposal later which forbids the use of nuclear weapons.

-after democracy/communism my passive spying was between 400-500 sp/turn. Actually this is my first game when i have used spying very actively.

 

[Dirk1302]

Could he have airlifted units? Can only be 1 unit/turn, maybe also rush bought a unit/turn. Ai doesn't really cheat, it only gets huge bonuses.

 

[huerfanista]

Could he have airlifted units? Can only be 1 unit/turn, maybe also rush bought a unit/turn. Ai doesn't really cheat, it only gets huge bonuses.

He could have rush-bought an airport in that city, and then airlifted from every city in his homeland that has an airport.

 

[Dirk1302]

I was wondering about that, i've fought many modern wars some time ago but i'm a bit out of it now.I know you need to have an airport in the city that sends troops, it can send 1 unit/turn then. Iirc the receiving city doesn't have to have an airport to receive 1 troop/turn. But i can't remember if a city can receive more than 1 troop /turn with airport are you sure this is the case?

 

[kossin]

Yes, a city with an airport can airlift 1 unit/turn or receive as many units/turn as you have airports in other cities.

 

[Dirk1302]

Ah thx, i think this answers mzprox question as well. Pretty smart from the ai to rush an airport and then indeed lift the units, hadn't expected that.

 

[Halt]

Mzprox
Again great job! In my game I seem to not tech as fast as you or the rest of the posters making an attempt. I am running a CE with the NE GP farm. The Pig/HE city to the SE also cottaged on the FP's. Only cities I settle "late" become Farm/Workshop cities. I do not try for mids (to expensive too early).

I noticed you said you settled your GP's in your capital. What I have been doing is using them. GSpy's deploy, GSci Academy, GE build, GA save until for later techs or culture bombs, GP tech or deploy, GM Bulb. When I do the math, it seems (with no reprsentation) The way I described should be more efficent... or did I get this all wrong?

I build wealth when needed too.

Yet... you seem to have tech's way faster than I have ever been able to achieve.

Besides the spying how are you researching so fast?

Also where did you get the coal for railroad? I assume attacking south which I am never able to accomplish.

Dirk
GW and COL from Oracle give multiple advantages. What I did was to place the free Missionary in a captured city (usually Ragnar's to the SW) before I am forced to retreat and return it by threat of Khan's mounted unslaught (Him with the city really is poor news so next time I try will give to Ragnar or Shaka).

General comments
I agree now Culture can not work. Therefore all my efforts down this path really weakend me greatly (otherwise I would have won early and easily ). Next game no Sistine Chapel, Cath's, Caste system artists (yes I was this dumb... but at least I tried)


Tech progression

Spoiler :

I think the BEST way starting from scratch is: Agi, BW, Mas, Wh, IW, Mys, Poly(some games will need to take meditation to secure oracle), Priesthood, Writing

This will give you the following; GW, 3 max Axeman before Praets come on line, Oracle, Settle for pig city (which I settle on north Plains hill near coast.

After this point I have tried two different approaches, looking for advice

1. Math, CS
I did not like this approach at all. It delays my use of Great Spy's and Espionage.

2. Alpha, Aest, Lit (poly first if I have taken Med) Mono (if not stolen)
This is a better approach if you want to build the HE/NE early.

Is there a third and better way? What tech's next should I go after first... Is there a best choice I am missing?

Is the GL the best choice in this game? Are those chopped trees and build time better used on a different choice in the GP farm?

Thanks again for the great report!

 

[mzprox]

Besides the spying how are you researching so fast?

I do the "super capital" strategy if there is such a thing . When my overall research was around 1000-1200 my capital gave 7-800 from that. It's a combo with representation, Oxford university, academy and with all the settled great persons there. I have settled everyone except the first scientist (academy) and the second gspy ( scotland yard). Going for the great library helps a lot in this strategy. i don't like bulbing at all even if it seems a better option doing the math. ( i have used one scientist to give rp to fiber optics, but that was the only one)

You can build railroads with oil and iron (fortunately). I did not attack in the whole game. I couldnt even secure the choke point, the Zulu made two cities in the north landmass. I started to prepare an invasion with tanks, but it would have been too much effort. or at least as i thought.

my tech path in this game was:

Spoiler :

Agr->masonry (probably not optimal, but i could build the GW without any chops by 2560 bc)-> BW->wheel->iron working->mysticism->polytheism (only because i dont know why hinduism was not taken) ->->-> literature->->-> civiliservice->->->alphabet->->->education->->-> banking/economy (for the free merchant)->->->railroad/combustion

 

[Dirk1302]

Reading all your posts now i'm sure GW makes a lot of difference. Duckweed might well be right about Col first as he pointed out in a very detailed post especially if you become very active with espionage soon. A point he made and which i missed is the 10% extra research from confucianism, in the capital and some other good research cities this is indeed significant. The ultimate extra happy from confu isn't that important i think, you'll probably have enough until monarchy, maybe much later on it can make some difference especially when WW hits.

I read all of you chose Ragnar as the ep victim, because he's financial and supposedly techs fastest? This is a good game to get my espionage abilities up to par so i'll restart. See if i can get Halts jungle hill sequence to work as it's fiendishly difficult without.

 

[Duckweed]

@Duckweed,
Why did you go for a chariot supermedic? It's pretty easy to get WIIIM1 with a praet, and it doesn't cost you a GG. If you want to waste one, why not go for the real supermedic WIIIMIII instead?

There is two reasons
1. I need a super combat GG to protect my SOD when I start to march south, and the experience need for extra three medic promotions is not trivial.
2. A second pure medic unit give you more flexibility, I need it in the battle field against Stalin's invasion. Actually, you won't be short of GGs in this game, Stalin's units are overwhelming.

 

[Halt]

I do the "super capital" strategy if there is such a thing . .....

I have settled everyone except the first scientist (academy) and the second gspy ( scotland yard).

Great library helps a lot in this strategy. i don't like bulbing at all even if it seems a better option doing the math. ( i have used one scientist to give rp to fiber optics, but that was the only one)

You can build railroads with oil and iron (fortunately).

Super capital - I have read Obsolete's strategy on this and have played many games this way with his Six City Strategy. In this game I stick with 9 cities, GL I was placing in my GP farm (probably a mistake). I might try "to stick" Pyramids in that city with all the forests. I think I can get 140-160 ish hammers from chopping to the GP NE city pre math, It would change things alot of I did this... using the chopping early... may give me the early tech lead needed to get to Lit early so GL is not such a race with Stalin.

GL - I was placing this in my GP farm.. I know moron but my capital was busy building life saving Theatres!

Railroads - Doh....

my tech path in this game was:

Spoiler :

Agr->masonry (probably not optimal, but i could build the GW without any chops by 2560 bc)-> BW->wheel->iron working->mysticism->polytheism (only because i dont know why hinduism was not taken) ->->-> literature->->-> civiliservice->->->alphabet->->->education->->-> banking/economy (for the free merchant)->->->railroad/combustion

Your tech path

Spoiler :

So you did not get the Oracle?

Now I know why Hindu was not taken yet in your games.

I will need to test later today. If it is repeatable I will let you know. Agr, Mas, BW, probably sends a signal to the AI to choose a different tech path than Agr, BW, Mas. I know choosing BW first sends an "aggressive" signal to the AI's you see Wonders fall quick and religions much earlier

Will need to see if I can still take at Ulundi and acomplish the above... Without Ulundi gone, the Jungle Hill will not get the GW bonus.

Mzprox - One more question do you remember your build path?

Spoiler :

Was it Wor, Bar, GW, axeman etc.. need the sequence to test how it effects tech path of AI.

Thanks for the information

 

[mzprox]

Mzprox - One more question do you remember your build path?

Spoiler :

I don't think you can go that far to predict everything from the moves. My building order was this: worker-warrior-GW-then either settlers->worker or worker->settlers, I'm not sure. I think i havent built any axemen in the capitol, but started to build the piramyds asap. My new city was founded close the capitol that it could use the gold too. It was not an optimal placement for long term but had its benefit short term.

 

[Matthew5117]

-i had uranium, probably it was a lucky event and i have considered launching a nuclear attack, but i was afraid that i cannot win that way and later i would get nuked back to stone aqe. So i was happy to sign that UN proposal later which forbids the use of nuclear weapons.

You could build dozens of Nukes and then enforce the UN proposal. This way, the AI can't build anymore nukes, same for you, but you have the nukes already. Nuke him and unless the AI has some already, he won't nuke you.

 

[mzprox]

ahh.. finally :

Spoiler :

This is a picture of my capital after the victory. I was under Hereditary rule ofc, but for this picture i have changed to representation to show how much research, spy points and wealth i generate even without working the fields (those two specialist are free for mercantilism and Statue of Liberty)

 

[dirtyparrot]

Congrats mzprox. Probably the most impressive victory I've seen.

 

[Halt]

Mzprox - Grats! you have proven worthy of the title "King" of this Thread

 

[mzprox]

Thank you guys , but i want to stress it that this was with hundreds of reloads. Still it was very hard and exciting.



((with chopping i could build one more thruster to my ship ( i had 2 thrusters, one engine but all the five casings) and managed to slow down Stalin with my spies ( changing his religion, puting him into bureocracy instead of freespeech) and maybe He went on different research path because in this i think my ship had at least 5 turns advantage))

 

[Dirk1302]

Grats Mzprox, that's really impressive .

My own game up to 880 AD.

Spoiler :

Decided just to continue my 25 AD save myself, see where it gets me. Reloaded some stupid mistakes where i wasn't really paying attention to all the ai units (especially impis) as i played fairly quick. Defending here is actually easier than i would have thought, i have so much units in blockcity that i don't even check if they're alright there after an attack, even with trebs the ais just can't do enough collateral. Once Ragnar just went to my capital through the woods with phants but i could easily upgrade some praets to wood III, end of phants. Mabye i should have built less units but once all units get hit by collateral you're in danger i feel. Moreover once i have steel i have so many backup units that i can take 3 zulu cities (Ulundi last) fast. All units have good promos so they'll help against Stalin too after upgrade.

I'm postponing construction, cats are rather useless and upgrading to cannons will be way to costly. I'm researching edu now 880 AD with approx 200 bpt, 11 turns left. I have a GE and a GS and i will have 2 more GS in 16 turns. I wonder what to do, settling in capital or 1 bulb on edu and burning the others on pp, chem. Almost sure i can take steel from lib then and if i use the GE for a GA i can whip unis fast for early oxford. A nice short term plan that will boost science soon to 500 gpt but after that prospects are a bit bleak, i can't do much. Alternatively i can settle all maybe use one GS on a second academy. I can chop most unis and no uni takes more than 10 turns to build. This will delay oxford by ~10-15 turns (later edu, no whipping because of caste). I will have to self research chem but that'll be 4-5 turns especially with settled persons, pp doesn't do enough to research now probably. Long term i will benefit immensely from all those settled persons of course especially after constitution. I know the challenge has been cracked but i still value some input.

 

[Halt]

Dirk - Well I think you are in big trouble

Spoiler :

One key element to stopping Stalin is the ability to gain the +1 water movement for being the first to circle the globe. You do not even have compass or Machinery. With out this movement aid you will NOT be able to react fast enough with your fewer naval units. (this is really a big issue I think)

This goes to my comments with Mzprox in an earlier thread... I would not settle the GP unless I had Pyramids to take advantage of representation. You do not and it is already 880AD I think you will find more value in bulbing or deploying your GP.

After reflection, I acn't even justify settling a GP for the appropriate religious shrines (8/9 gold a turn is not a fair exchange for 2 hammers 5 gold in a city of your choice or even the 900+ for Bulbing.

 

[Dirk1302]

@Halt,I also think i'm in trouble

Spoiler :

As i said in an earlier post it's not winnable this way, i'm 20+ turns behind because i can't steal all these techs. The jungle hill might have helped also but defending wasn't such a hassle as i'd expected. I don't think i'll get destroyers in the first place before Stalin comes so i may have to concentrate on the land. Then again maybe if i bulb everything i may get to destroyers before 1500 or at least <1600 after all. I reckon bulbing everything will gain me at least 20 turns. About the circumnavigation, nothing that can be done about it, delaying edu now means stalling forever.