King of the World #1: Montezuma
- Thread starter Neal
- Start date
Hey, all, I'm back. Things were resolved a little earlier than expected.
For this round, I decided to go outside my comfort zone a little bit, and was pleasantly surprised at the results. I went with the Jet \ Cabert idea and set myself up for a Jaguar rush.
Step one was to check out that Yucatan hut:
Not as much gold as I'd like, but it's better than a map (especially given that we're playing on Earth).
I finished up on the Wheel and set out on an Iron Working beeline. I got right to settling on that stone:
I set the town to start immediately on Stonehenge for a couple of reasons: First, with the warrior fortified on the lower right, there, Teotihuacan has absolutely nothing to worry about militarily. Secondly, we're going to be settling South America sooner or later, and the free border pops will be vital in getting it up to speed early. Thirdly, it's gonna give us some Great Prophet points. We founded Buddhism, so we may as well get paid for it.
I set up our third city to grab the deer, silver, and clams:
You'll notice that it's training a warrior. Teotihuacan may not have any barbarians to worry about, but the Rockies, from my experience, are CRAWLING with them.
I did get Stonehenge:
In the background, you can see that my noble initial scout was mauled by a lion on fog-busting duty somewhere in east Texas. They apparently do grow'em bigger out there. He will be missed.
In the next screenshot we will see Mexico, all set up and ready for Iron Working to show up. All three cities have Barracks running, and all of the builds will finish within a turn or two of Jaguars becoming available. I didn't pre-chop, but I think the preponderance of mines (with the food to work them) will make up for it.
In addition, Roosevelt has kindly furnished us with our first target. That was one of the sites we were debating anyway, and it's right on our doorstep with a convenient staging point to the southwest.
With Iron Working finished, and our cities churning out Jaguars, I quickly knocked out Fishing (so that those clams can at least be worked) and Priesthood (for Temples and as a prereq to CoL). At the bottom, border pops have completely covered Central America, allowing that warrior to return to Tenochtitlan to calm the people's fears (or violently keep the peace- whatever helps you sleep at night).
Right about then the barbarians started showing up. Being an "expansion first, troops later" kind of guy, this is normally a hectic period for me, frantically shuffling around my meager garrisons to meet the seemingly endless threat. In this case, though, we have some dudes with sticks wandering aimlessly into a rapidly militarizing Aztec empire. Yeah. Good luck with that. Smells like free xp to me.
A couple of decades later, here's where we stand. First, the bloody Empire of Mexico, with my howling pack of eight Jaguar units slavering at the gates of Boston (guarded by an Archer and two warriors- easy pickings!).
Finally, the juicy, poorly defended heart of the American empire:
New York is defended by two archers. I can't see into Washington, and I'd imagine it's better defended than the cities I can see, but I don't think it's by much. New York is, obviously, a perfect GP farm.
So, what's the plan? I think that we have enough Jags to do some real damage, so I'm thinking the stone city's next build should probably be a temple (to get a priest going- I'm gonna need that shrine once this war is over). And the Silver city should probably start on a fishing boat to get the most out of those clams. The capital can either continue churning out Jags or build more workers (or even Settlers).
Science-wise, I kind of lost my way a little bit, researching Monarchy. I should probably change it to Pottery (Mexico doesn't have a lot of viable cottage sites, but Appalachia does) or Writing (as a prereq to either CoL or Construction).
Militarily, I think our first move should obviously be to take Boston. After that, maybe send out four Jags to take New York and send the rest at Washington? What do you all think?
Oh, and the save:
For this round, I decided to go outside my comfort zone a little bit, and was pleasantly surprised at the results. I went with the Jet \ Cabert idea and set myself up for a Jaguar rush.
Step one was to check out that Yucatan hut:
Not as much gold as I'd like, but it's better than a map (especially given that we're playing on Earth).
I finished up on the Wheel and set out on an Iron Working beeline. I got right to settling on that stone:
I set the town to start immediately on Stonehenge for a couple of reasons: First, with the warrior fortified on the lower right, there, Teotihuacan has absolutely nothing to worry about militarily. Secondly, we're going to be settling South America sooner or later, and the free border pops will be vital in getting it up to speed early. Thirdly, it's gonna give us some Great Prophet points. We founded Buddhism, so we may as well get paid for it.
I set up our third city to grab the deer, silver, and clams:
You'll notice that it's training a warrior. Teotihuacan may not have any barbarians to worry about, but the Rockies, from my experience, are CRAWLING with them.
I did get Stonehenge:
In the background, you can see that my noble initial scout was mauled by a lion on fog-busting duty somewhere in east Texas. They apparently do grow'em bigger out there. He will be missed.
In the next screenshot we will see Mexico, all set up and ready for Iron Working to show up. All three cities have Barracks running, and all of the builds will finish within a turn or two of Jaguars becoming available. I didn't pre-chop, but I think the preponderance of mines (with the food to work them) will make up for it.
In addition, Roosevelt has kindly furnished us with our first target. That was one of the sites we were debating anyway, and it's right on our doorstep with a convenient staging point to the southwest.
With Iron Working finished, and our cities churning out Jaguars, I quickly knocked out Fishing (so that those clams can at least be worked) and Priesthood (for Temples and as a prereq to CoL). At the bottom, border pops have completely covered Central America, allowing that warrior to return to Tenochtitlan to calm the people's fears (or violently keep the peace- whatever helps you sleep at night).
Right about then the barbarians started showing up. Being an "expansion first, troops later" kind of guy, this is normally a hectic period for me, frantically shuffling around my meager garrisons to meet the seemingly endless threat. In this case, though, we have some dudes with sticks wandering aimlessly into a rapidly militarizing Aztec empire. Yeah. Good luck with that. Smells like free xp to me.
A couple of decades later, here's where we stand. First, the bloody Empire of Mexico, with my howling pack of eight Jaguar units slavering at the gates of Boston (guarded by an Archer and two warriors- easy pickings!).
Finally, the juicy, poorly defended heart of the American empire:
New York is defended by two archers. I can't see into Washington, and I'd imagine it's better defended than the cities I can see, but I don't think it's by much. New York is, obviously, a perfect GP farm.
So, what's the plan? I think that we have enough Jags to do some real damage, so I'm thinking the stone city's next build should probably be a temple (to get a priest going- I'm gonna need that shrine once this war is over). And the Silver city should probably start on a fishing boat to get the most out of those clams. The capital can either continue churning out Jags or build more workers (or even Settlers).
Science-wise, I kind of lost my way a little bit, researching Monarchy. I should probably change it to Pottery (Mexico doesn't have a lot of viable cottage sites, but Appalachia does) or Writing (as a prereq to either CoL or Construction).
Militarily, I think our first move should obviously be to take Boston. After that, maybe send out four Jags to take New York and send the rest at Washington? What do you all think?
Oh, and the save:
I've been playing this map. I settled the Aztec capital 2 north of the starting spot, and it's turned into quite the GP farm/production center. I've built just about every wonder there except for one or two (and the two coastal ones, great lighthouse and colossus) - sometimes with great engineers, but sometimes with the massive hammers available there. I've built Three Gorges and Eiffel tower, and about ready to shoot for the space elevator.
There's a sweet spot for a commerce/research city just East of the Mississippi on the coast. Mine ended up being two West of there, just above the fish, but it's still pretty decent.
There's also a great spot for a military/production city nearby, but it becomes clear after future resources are revealed, so I'll put it under a spoiler. Not having known where the resources would be, mine ended up being two North of this, but it was still a great hammer city.
There's a sweet spot for a commerce/research city just East of the Mississippi on the coast. Mine ended up being two West of there, just above the fish, but it's still pretty decent.
There's also a great spot for a military/production city nearby, but it becomes clear after future resources are revealed, so I'll put it under a spoiler. Not having known where the resources would be, mine ended up being two North of this, but it was still a great hammer city.
Spoiler :
Shoot the Moon
Playing World in Conflict
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2005
- Messages
- 708
Neal, do you have a victory type in mind? I think the terrain would make for an interesting cultural victory. I'd be interested in seeing it attempted. The only real challenge would be not the getting of the culture (should be easy with all that cottage-able and Great Artist-farm-able land) but keeping the old world from invading.
It's utterly ridiculous... but I'm thinking maybe I'll try Domination. Earth is such an insanely huge map, though, that you're pretty much limited to Culture, Space, the U.N. and Time victories. As Monty, culture would be too easy, I think. As R Rolo1 said on the Archipelago thread, the "AI does not excel in naval warfare." I'd just ring the continent with with protective ships and go at it. *shrug* It would work if we just want to get Monty over with and move on to someone else (maybe Alexander or Catherine or even Louis- no isolation there!).
I like the idea of creaking Aztec slave-ships full of troops crossing the Atlantic and burning the spires of Madrid to the ground. To tell you the truth, though, things WOULD bog down after taking Europe (you know what they say about land wars in Asia). Maybe we can go for a pseudo-Domination U.N. victory.
Charou
Warlord
If going cultural founding other religions becomes a priority.
CivSetä;5610076 said:
seconded
well, boston IS on the way, so make it Boston then washington then New york (then possibly any other city he may have planted).
I may just say that you were a bit slow for this attack.
I thought you'd do either stone city OR a rush. Not both.
Still looks good, but it would have been easier 10 turns earlier.
I think your research should go Pottery -> Writing -> COL.
Researching Pottery will make Writing cheaper, which in turn is a pre-req for COL. To take advantage of whipping from your UB courthouse you want the granaries from Pottery. Heck you want granaries anyways - they are a given in every single city you build.
Keep building Jaguars in at least the capital and stone city. A temple can be whipped at any time (cheap spiritual building) and you don't really have the spare population to dedicate to a priest right now. There's no rush on the GP, he'll come eventually from Stonehenge.
I'd probably build one more Jaguar in your coastal city as well. Maybe whip some overflow into a fishing boat. You can't have too many Jags at this point - if not for conquering then at least for fog busting the Western USA.
Good idea for a series and I'm looking forward to following along!
Researching Pottery will make Writing cheaper, which in turn is a pre-req for COL. To take advantage of whipping from your UB courthouse you want the granaries from Pottery. Heck you want granaries anyways - they are a given in every single city you build.
Keep building Jaguars in at least the capital and stone city. A temple can be whipped at any time (cheap spiritual building) and you don't really have the spare population to dedicate to a priest right now. There's no rush on the GP, he'll come eventually from Stonehenge.
I'd probably build one more Jaguar in your coastal city as well. Maybe whip some overflow into a fishing boat. You can't have too many Jags at this point - if not for conquering then at least for fog busting the Western USA.
Good idea for a series and I'm looking forward to following along!
I have a request/suggestion. As you found new cities, and conquer American cities, change the names to roughly correspond with cities in those locations in the real world. I absolutely HATE the Aztec names. They are so long and so hard to tell apart from eachother, it's hard to figure out what city I'm looking for. I only do this with the Aztecs, btw.
I play 4 fun
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2005
- Messages
- 135
New York is the perfect GP farm but it is better to give one city one of the 3 corns it has, else you will max out your happiness cap right away. You should try and get the great lighthouse as you will have a fair amount of coastal cities and the extra trade routes will help.
If you want a hard civ to try. Be mali on earth 18 multiplayer.
If you want a hard civ to try. Be mali on earth 18 multiplayer.
AThousandYoung
Prince
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2007
- Messages
- 399
I like doing that too. It's interesting to check if my choices of city placement are on the sites of large cities IRL.
When I played this game, I also put a city on the tile where Teotihuacan is. That was my first canal city. It had horrific problems with illness all through the game. Settling 1E on the corn and fresh water might have been a better idea.
Brilliant thread idea and discussion. Never played earth maps but have some questions on strategy, if I may.
First, is there any upside to keeping Americans alive? If you keep spamming Jags, I'd wager you can take them out, this being Monarch. Doesn't matter v much either way, probably, but curious as to your planning.
Second, what is your midterm strategy after the war (no matter how long/far it goes). I guess the others are going to find you, not vice versa, but if you beeline deep into the tech tree, you should be able to trade your way out. Meanwhile, you can cottage spam and make use of religion. If you want (backdoor) domination, I think you'll want to start conquering with grenadiers and cannons, so beeline there maybe?
Third, who are usually the top dogs on Eurasia = your likely endgame opponents on this kind of map?
Great writing style btw, thanks for your efforts.
J.
First, is there any upside to keeping Americans alive? If you keep spamming Jags, I'd wager you can take them out, this being Monarch. Doesn't matter v much either way, probably, but curious as to your planning.
Second, what is your midterm strategy after the war (no matter how long/far it goes). I guess the others are going to find you, not vice versa, but if you beeline deep into the tech tree, you should be able to trade your way out. Meanwhile, you can cottage spam and make use of religion. If you want (backdoor) domination, I think you'll want to start conquering with grenadiers and cannons, so beeline there maybe?
Third, who are usually the top dogs on Eurasia = your likely endgame opponents on this kind of map?
Great writing style btw, thanks for your efforts.
J.
AThousandYoung
Prince
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2007
- Messages
- 399
I find that China's always been a powerhouse in the Earth map.
In this round, we pretty much eliminate Roosevelt as a credible threat.
Techwise, I abandoned Monarchy in favor of Pottery-Writing-Code of Laws.
First turn, we took over Boston with minimal losses. I went against advice and sent an expeditionary force to take over New York with the bulk of my military trundling off towards Washington.
I wanted to make sure that the New York team was sufficient, since I wasn't planning on reinforcing it, so I sent four Jaguars.
They succeeded in taking New York with only one loss (In fact, only three were needed, but better safe than sorry), and my wandering scout made a pleasant discovery outside the American capital:
That iron isn't mined! I don't know whether that means he doesn't have Iron Working or he simply hasn't had a chance to mine it yet. Probably the latter, given the presence of that worker. In addition, Washington is defended by only two archers and a spearman. You can also see the beginnings of the main Washington army down south. There are more behind them, trust me.
At about that time, more barbarians decided to show up, but they were quickly dispatched by Jaguars headed to the front.
In 825, I finally had my forces in place. Unfortunately, Roosevelt managed to beef up his forces a bit as well. There's a Swordsman in there now (which is distressingly strong compared to the "dumbed down" Jaguar), but at least it isn't an axeman. In addition, that means that a) Roosevelt does have Iron Working, and b) he's getting his iron from somewhere else.
So it's seven Jaguars against two archers, a spearman, and a swordsman. In addition, there's an eighth Jag one turn away (the attack was made the turn after this screenshot was taken, with the Jag 2S of the marble being said eighth unit).
Roosevelt's forces put up one heck of a fight, killing off half of my troops and leaving him with one heavily wounded archer at the end of the turn. I let the fresh reinforcement make the killing blow:
Yeah, I probably should have sent someone who was closer to promotion, but I'd lost enough men in that battle. The three workers and one settler in there should take care of my labor needs for a while.
So here's where we stand. Roosevelt has been confined to the icy north, our forces are mostly healing up in the conquered American capital, and we are woefully without infrastructure (the three Mexican cities have Barracks, the two capitals have granaries, and everyone's got a free Monument thanks to Stone City). All of my cities have seen the light of Buddhism, though, so that's good. Oh, and, after the conquest, I did rename the cities (figured I'd wait till the end of the round to make it an easier transition).
Here's Mexico and the Gulf:
And the old American Empire:
Man, St. Louis is going to be one heck of a GP farm.
And what I know of the remaining United States:
If I remember correctly, there is room for one more viable city north of the cornlands, so that should be worth taking. The question is, is it worth taking now? We don't have any techs that would allow us to extort things from FDR (i.e., Alphabet or Currency), so I don't see any real profit in calling off the dogs (er, Jags) now.
At the same time, though, we need to get some infrastructure (both buildings and cottages, since we're shooting for a CE) up and running, stat. I don't know that we can afford another nascent city on the ledger sheet.
Here's the Domestic Advisor:
The Warriors are to be used as Garrison troops in the conquered cities, to free the Jaguars up for duties elsewhere.
And the military advisor, focusing on the Jaguars at our disposal.
I hope that's a reasonable promotion mix (I still haven't figured out how to fully optimize that). In addition, we can see that we're pretty darn close to getting our Avatar of the Sun God (erm, Great General), so maybe that's a sign to press on and finish Roosevelt.
Religion-wise, Confucianism still hasn't been founded yet, and we are shooting for Code of Laws, but I wouldn't hold out too much hope for it. Eurasia just techs too fast. If we get it, though, hey, it'll be a nice little bonus. The big thing is those Altars to reduce maintenance. We've got a nice little war chest, but at -18 per turn (at 80% I know, but still...) it won't last forever.
So, what do you think? Wipe Roosevelt off the map, make peace to regroup, build infrastructure and wipe him out after the treaty's up, make peace with plans to vassalize him later, leave him alone to rot in Canada, what?
And what about South America? We've got a while before we're seriously challenged for it, but I hate to see all that river grassland go to waste...
Techwise, I abandoned Monarchy in favor of Pottery-Writing-Code of Laws.
First turn, we took over Boston with minimal losses. I went against advice and sent an expeditionary force to take over New York with the bulk of my military trundling off towards Washington.
I wanted to make sure that the New York team was sufficient, since I wasn't planning on reinforcing it, so I sent four Jaguars.
They succeeded in taking New York with only one loss (In fact, only three were needed, but better safe than sorry), and my wandering scout made a pleasant discovery outside the American capital:
That iron isn't mined! I don't know whether that means he doesn't have Iron Working or he simply hasn't had a chance to mine it yet. Probably the latter, given the presence of that worker. In addition, Washington is defended by only two archers and a spearman. You can also see the beginnings of the main Washington army down south. There are more behind them, trust me.
At about that time, more barbarians decided to show up, but they were quickly dispatched by Jaguars headed to the front.
In 825, I finally had my forces in place. Unfortunately, Roosevelt managed to beef up his forces a bit as well. There's a Swordsman in there now (which is distressingly strong compared to the "dumbed down" Jaguar), but at least it isn't an axeman. In addition, that means that a) Roosevelt does have Iron Working, and b) he's getting his iron from somewhere else.
So it's seven Jaguars against two archers, a spearman, and a swordsman. In addition, there's an eighth Jag one turn away (the attack was made the turn after this screenshot was taken, with the Jag 2S of the marble being said eighth unit).
Roosevelt's forces put up one heck of a fight, killing off half of my troops and leaving him with one heavily wounded archer at the end of the turn. I let the fresh reinforcement make the killing blow:
Yeah, I probably should have sent someone who was closer to promotion, but I'd lost enough men in that battle. The three workers and one settler in there should take care of my labor needs for a while.
So here's where we stand. Roosevelt has been confined to the icy north, our forces are mostly healing up in the conquered American capital, and we are woefully without infrastructure (the three Mexican cities have Barracks, the two capitals have granaries, and everyone's got a free Monument thanks to Stone City). All of my cities have seen the light of Buddhism, though, so that's good. Oh, and, after the conquest, I did rename the cities (figured I'd wait till the end of the round to make it an easier transition).
Here's Mexico and the Gulf:
And the old American Empire:
Man, St. Louis is going to be one heck of a GP farm.
And what I know of the remaining United States:
If I remember correctly, there is room for one more viable city north of the cornlands, so that should be worth taking. The question is, is it worth taking now? We don't have any techs that would allow us to extort things from FDR (i.e., Alphabet or Currency), so I don't see any real profit in calling off the dogs (er, Jags) now.
At the same time, though, we need to get some infrastructure (both buildings and cottages, since we're shooting for a CE) up and running, stat. I don't know that we can afford another nascent city on the ledger sheet.
Here's the Domestic Advisor:
The Warriors are to be used as Garrison troops in the conquered cities, to free the Jaguars up for duties elsewhere.
And the military advisor, focusing on the Jaguars at our disposal.
I hope that's a reasonable promotion mix (I still haven't figured out how to fully optimize that). In addition, we can see that we're pretty darn close to getting our Avatar of the Sun God (erm, Great General), so maybe that's a sign to press on and finish Roosevelt.
Religion-wise, Confucianism still hasn't been founded yet, and we are shooting for Code of Laws, but I wouldn't hold out too much hope for it. Eurasia just techs too fast. If we get it, though, hey, it'll be a nice little bonus. The big thing is those Altars to reduce maintenance. We've got a nice little war chest, but at -18 per turn (at 80% I know, but still...) it won't last forever.
So, what do you think? Wipe Roosevelt off the map, make peace to regroup, build infrastructure and wipe him out after the treaty's up, make peace with plans to vassalize him later, leave him alone to rot in Canada, what?
And what about South America? We've got a while before we're seriously challenged for it, but I hate to see all that river grassland go to waste...
I'm playing along here. Vanilla, Monarch, Marathon.
I'm to about 1650 BC, and am in pretty good position because (1) all I see out of the Americans is some warriors, while I'm building axement, and (2) I got the Pyramids! What I've done so far under the spoiler cover.
Now I've got a great GP farm set up to build wonders and great engineers (3 corn, tons of hammers, and pyramids built), and I'm starting to churn out axemen. I'm about ready to declare on the Americans, but my economy already sucks, and I'm afraid of taking on more cities. I'm working on metal casting for forges (to increase happiness by two, help production, and increase engineer gp points) but it's taking forever to research.
I'm to about 1650 BC, and am in pretty good position because (1) all I see out of the Americans is some warriors, while I'm building axement, and (2) I got the Pyramids! What I've done so far under the spoiler cover.
Spoiler :
Now I've got a great GP farm set up to build wonders and great engineers (3 corn, tons of hammers, and pyramids built), and I'm starting to churn out axemen. I'm about ready to declare on the Americans, but my economy already sucks, and I'm afraid of taking on more cities. I'm working on metal casting for forges (to increase happiness by two, help production, and increase engineer gp points) but it's taking forever to research.
If you wait and vassalize him, you might be able to direct his research later down the road and trade some techs out of him. Besides, there's a lot of mediocre land up north that he can make use of, and carve out his own little sub-empire.
AThousandYoung
Prince
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2007
- Messages
- 399
No Shock for stack defense. I also don't like the archer killer promotion much. Archers are never significant except as city defense (Barbs can be an exception). Might as well have City Raider.
I tend to be whimsical about things like promotions though. Sometimes I'll promote to a bonus vs. whatever the unit just killed, or give environmental bonus if the fight was on a hill, etc.
What you do with Roosevelt is not really important. Just slap down cottages and nurse those babies. Kill or vassalize Roosevelt at your whim.
Go for Space Race.
