micbic
Optimistic Pessimist
Simple. Keep Asoka as a tech ally and invade Hannibal.
King of the World #11: Darius I
- Thread starter Neal
- Start date
r_rolo1
King of myself
Oh the dilemma of peace vs war.....
I think you should not do peace with QSH before he is a vassal. Otherwise JC will vassal him sooner or later.... Not that it is hard to take JC of the war ( he asks Liberalism and gives 820 g as pocket change ), but because you made a quite nice job in bumping QSH power down. And with QSH vassal of JC, everyone else would also vassal JC ....
I already told you this, but I think that repeating will hurt: you will be in total war until both Rome and China are your vassals or gone ( see the diplo: in spite of the war JC is still pleased with QSH ). Going to rifles, cuiraseers ( you actually made the 11 stables or not ?
) or to cannons will be paramount. Natio is for Mil trad or it is just for Taj drool? I personally would prefer cannons, but cuirs are Ok.
Utica should have now 2 lbows ( standart skeleton defense ), but heavy defense ( wall + castle + what ever cultural defense ) Might take a while to do a proper sieging party, unless you want to give use to spies there and horsemen on them.
So:
-Make war with QSH until he breaks
-Pray that JC continues in the rumble
-Prepare to war until persian rule from Lisbon to Tokyo.... there is no other way
I think you should not do peace with QSH before he is a vassal. Otherwise JC will vassal him sooner or later.... Not that it is hard to take JC of the war ( he asks Liberalism and gives 820 g as pocket change ), but because you made a quite nice job in bumping QSH power down. And with QSH vassal of JC, everyone else would also vassal JC ....
I already told you this, but I think that repeating will hurt: you will be in total war until both Rome and China are your vassals or gone ( see the diplo: in spite of the war JC is still pleased with QSH ). Going to rifles, cuiraseers ( you actually made the 11 stables or not ?
) or to cannons will be paramount. Natio is for Mil trad or it is just for Taj drool? I personally would prefer cannons, but cuirs are Ok.Utica should have now 2 lbows ( standart skeleton defense ), but heavy defense ( wall + castle + what ever cultural defense ) Might take a while to do a proper sieging party, unless you want to give use to spies there and horsemen on them.
So:
-Make war with QSH until he breaks
-Pray that JC continues in the rumble
-Prepare to war until persian rule from Lisbon to Tokyo.... there is no other way
Kev
Hired Goon
Nice job on getting to Lib first! I would consider trading Lib for gunpowder and Theo while you can. Perhaps if some of these vassals in various blocs change out of their religions there could be some unrest there. Plus, seeing as you'll be warring for the foreseeable future, they would be good techs to have.
I agree that you need to keep pummeling Qin. If nothing else you need to make sure that he is generally crippled before he possibly capitulates to JC. If you trade Liberalism for some techs, it might be worthwhile to eventually call off JC with that tech if possible to lessen the capitulation chance and the thought that you'd have an immediate war with JC and cronies.
Would you consider letting Qin capitulate to you? If JC is still on decent terms, it might not cause too much of an issue diplomacy-wise. Qin's own vassals (well, singular vassal now) would have to break off first though, correct? I guess that would also affect JC's opportunity to vassal Qin too....
While you have at least SOME troops in Africa, would it make sense to go after the AP and see if you can bring it under your own control?
Upon Edit - looks like Utica is in revolt. Was that done with a spy or something else? Seems Hannibal is no longer a vassal.
I agree that you need to keep pummeling Qin. If nothing else you need to make sure that he is generally crippled before he possibly capitulates to JC. If you trade Liberalism for some techs, it might be worthwhile to eventually call off JC with that tech if possible to lessen the capitulation chance and the thought that you'd have an immediate war with JC and cronies.
Would you consider letting Qin capitulate to you? If JC is still on decent terms, it might not cause too much of an issue diplomacy-wise. Qin's own vassals (well, singular vassal now) would have to break off first though, correct? I guess that would also affect JC's opportunity to vassal Qin too....
While you have at least SOME troops in Africa, would it make sense to go after the AP and see if you can bring it under your own control?
Upon Edit - looks like Utica is in revolt. Was that done with a spy or something else? Seems Hannibal is no longer a vassal.
Gooblah
Heh...
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2007
- Messages
- 4,282
Very, very good round.
Suggestions/Pointers/Greivances:
1) Giving JC Education was (IMO) an unnecessary risk.
2) Why did you get Optics from Pericles instead of Theology? Theology unlocks Theocracy, which would aid you in total warfare.
3) Your border with Rome is longer now; on the flip side, control of Greece gets your troops closer to the city of Rome, meaning that it is that much easier to launch an invasion of Rome.
4) Start shifting focus back to Europe. Qin, though he has vassals, will break soon. Send some troops from Chengdu north to aid in taking Guangzhou, then move (if possible) onto Shanghai. Once that is done, he should be willing to capitulate (hopefully to you!).
5) Post-Chinese collapse, Hannibal and Wang Kon will be up for grabs. Odds are three things will happen:
a) Tokugawa steps in to collect Wang Kong. Low chance.
b) Rome takes Hannibal (land target rules), and Wang Kong is still up for grabs (i.e Amphibious assault on the Phillipines will decide who gets Namp'on). High chance.
c) You miraculously inflict some grievous wound on Hannibal, and he capitulates to you. Since you also control the southern Chinese coast and Malaysia, you have the necessary production/troops to come after Wang Kong. Medium chance.
Just my thoughts.
Looked at the save:
Suggestions/Pointers/Greivances:
1) Giving JC Education was (IMO) an unnecessary risk.
2) Why did you get Optics from Pericles instead of Theology? Theology unlocks Theocracy, which would aid you in total warfare.
3) Your border with Rome is longer now; on the flip side, control of Greece gets your troops closer to the city of Rome, meaning that it is that much easier to launch an invasion of Rome.
4) Start shifting focus back to Europe. Qin, though he has vassals, will break soon. Send some troops from Chengdu north to aid in taking Guangzhou, then move (if possible) onto Shanghai. Once that is done, he should be willing to capitulate (hopefully to you!).
5) Post-Chinese collapse, Hannibal and Wang Kon will be up for grabs. Odds are three things will happen:
a) Tokugawa steps in to collect Wang Kong. Low chance.
b) Rome takes Hannibal (land target rules), and Wang Kong is still up for grabs (i.e Amphibious assault on the Phillipines will decide who gets Namp'on). High chance.
c) You miraculously inflict some grievous wound on Hannibal, and he capitulates to you. Since you also control the southern Chinese coast and Malaysia, you have the necessary production/troops to come after Wang Kong. Medium chance.
Just my thoughts.
Looked at the save:
Spoiler :
Matthew5117
Emperor
How is Sakae building a monument if you have the Stonehenge?
aMoralAtheist
Chieftain
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2009
- Messages
- 70
If u dow hannibal make a new stack. u need a large anti jc just in case. u should have not killed greece. now u have a larger border to defend instead of funneling jc. best bet would have been dow greece then dow jc to mitigate the border issue. after dow and kill hanibal cross that stack to iberia and dow jc creating two front war for jc.
Terrance888
Discord Reigns
Nice, I bet he is working at China's Siberian Territories.
Smash China up a bit and accept him as your vassal to lick your boots!
Smash China up a bit and accept him as your vassal to lick your boots!
IAM
Emperor
Nice round! Man that was sweet. I say continue peaceful negotiations (kill) with your friends (china) where the sun rises (east). Take their core cities and capitulate them asap. It will probably take you having to capture a couple more core cities. 
CHEESE!
On a long nostalgia trip
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What's the city count? Are you running many towns? What's the BPT? When will you post the next round? Why will the round be good? How will the army fare? How will the chinese survive? How are you planning to deal with JC? How will you win? What're your civics? What is the next leader? What is your name? What is your quest? What is your favorite colour?
vanatteveldt
Emperor
Blue. No! Yellow! Ahhhhhh.........................
CHEESE!
On a long nostalgia trip
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- Messages
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What... is the capital of Abyssinia?
Moderator Action: Spam - warned
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
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Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
huerfanista
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2006
- Messages
- 1,276
@Neal
Excellent job on the military front. However, I am completely baffled about why you gave JC education (a 4000+
tech) instead of 261
(25gpt x 10 turn + 11 ). As soon as Sparta came out of revolt you would have recouped that investment quickly, you had no real competition in the lib race (Ashoka would never have beaaten you), and at most it would have cost you 1 turn. Giving a key research tech to the tech leader?
Excellent job on the military front. However, I am completely baffled about why you gave JC education (a 4000+
tech) instead of 261 (25gpt x 10 turn + 11 ). As soon as Sparta came out of revolt you would have recouped that investment quickly, you had no real competition in the lib race (Ashoka would never have beaaten you), and at most it would have cost you 1 turn. Giving a key research tech to the tech leader?
Matthew5117
Emperor
@Neal
Excellent job on the military front. However, I am completely baffled about why you gave JC education (a 4000+
I pretty sure Neal realized he could have given Education instead of the cheaper way, but he probably thought that was an exploit. Especially since people here at CivFanatics told him to. Meanwhile, when originally Neal was planning of giving Education anyways.
What's with the spam?
CHEESE!
On a long nostalgia trip
- Joined
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huerfanista
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2006
- Messages
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Hard to see how it's an exploit. It's just a matter of asking. Either the AI accepts or it doesn't. If all you do is click on "what is the price for peace" and just accept whatever the AI throws back it you, then IMO it's weak play.
Whatever.
Matthew5117
Emperor
Hard to see how it's an exploit. It's just a matter of asking. Either the AI accepts or it doesn't. If all you do is click on "what is the price for peace" and just accept whatever the AI throws back it you, then IMO it's weak play.
Whatever.
Well, when I say exploit, I mean unrealistic. I mean, do you go up to a businessman and say what do you want for this and negotiate?
Well, actually you do.
It seems to me individually it is an exploit, I don't know how, but it just does.
re: Monument in Sakae- Stonehenge was just captured on the round's final turn. I'm sure that it'll pop up as being illegal as soon as I hit the red button.
re: Total War- I dunno, Rolo. I mean, it's certainly an option... But the Old World is pretty much divided into the Chinese bloc, the Roman bloc, and Persia. And nobody really hates each other. I think peace would stick, at least for a while. And I'm pretty sure that an "infrastructure lull" might do us some good after taking Guangzhou...
re: Education vs. Gold- Well, I figure that Rome was going to get Education soon anyway, especially since I traded it off to Pericles for Philosophy. So sharing the tech didn't really "hurt" us very much. Losing that much gold per turn, though, would put a serious cramp in our tech rate, at least in the short term. And besides, giving up gold just feels too much like tribute
re: Boudica's map- Hmm, maybe I'll take that and send a Caravel from India southwest. The circumnavigation bonus may yet be ours!
re: CHEESE!'s spam- Well, I kinda started it, so it's all good by me.
re: War with China- I get the feeling that we can take Guangzhou, but that'll probably come pretty darn close to wiping out our military. I'm thinking we'll need to take peace at that point, if only to replenish our siege (and maybe we could get something like China's Pacific island cities in the deal). Then, after 10 turns, maybe think about making another go of it.
re: The next round- I dunno, tomorrow?
re: Total War- I dunno, Rolo. I mean, it's certainly an option... But the Old World is pretty much divided into the Chinese bloc, the Roman bloc, and Persia. And nobody really hates each other. I think peace would stick, at least for a while. And I'm pretty sure that an "infrastructure lull" might do us some good after taking Guangzhou...
re: Education vs. Gold- Well, I figure that Rome was going to get Education soon anyway, especially since I traded it off to Pericles for Philosophy. So sharing the tech didn't really "hurt" us very much. Losing that much gold per turn, though, would put a serious cramp in our tech rate, at least in the short term. And besides, giving up gold just feels too much like tribute
re: Boudica's map- Hmm, maybe I'll take that and send a Caravel from India southwest. The circumnavigation bonus may yet be ours!
re: CHEESE!'s spam- Well, I kinda started it, so it's all good by me.
re: War with China- I get the feeling that we can take Guangzhou, but that'll probably come pretty darn close to wiping out our military. I'm thinking we'll need to take peace at that point, if only to replenish our siege (and maybe we could get something like China's Pacific island cities in the deal). Then, after 10 turns, maybe think about making another go of it.
re: The next round- I dunno, tomorrow?
