Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Neal, Sep 16, 2011.
Civilizations that start with hunting get a scout instead of a warrior.
Yes they are ... that is why they are a good training ground to gather XP while Neal consolidates his empire before he breaks out to kill 'em all But again, Neal is in a enviroment where everyone is Toku : no one talks to no one, no one OBs with no one, no one tech trades with no one ... Maybe toku will appear less sucky in average in here
Oh come now NEAL. You have horses in the BFC, you should be heading towards HorseBack Riding to beat the Mongols at their own game!!!
The AI gets ten free hammers for a warrior on turn one so that it is impossible for humans to warrior rush germany as france. Its likely that France just got lucky with their starting warrior.
And I think Monty and Catherine will be powers in this game if Alex doesn't send his phalanxes to Russia.
IIRC its bonus hammers don't scale with speed so are still 10 on marathon (which this game is I think) so even working a 3 hammer tile it would take 5 turns. Since thats not its usual start I'd guess it would take enough turns for France to take Germany out before 1st warrior,
Ok, let me explain
Every AI civ in it's first turn of play receives 10 hammers in their capital city. This regardless of when the AI civ starts playing ( colonies also get it ), of how many cities the AI civ has in game start ( again colonies, but not only ) and it is independent of the speed, as Habitus says.
Oh, and BTW a human, with some luck can beat germany with France with the starting warrior in E18 normal speed ... it depends of where you start with the starting warrior. That, as you might know, is not fixed in this map and you can start with the warrior anywhere inside the BFC ( except the settler spot ). If you start anywhere east of Paris, a thing that happens 40% of the times, you can get to Germany cap before the AI is able to make the warrior and in 20% of the times you get there in the turn the germans finish the warrior ( germany plays before france ... ) making it literally a 50:50 deal.
In here ... The AI units all start in the settler spot, so it is 4 turns to move from Paris to Berlin. It was definitely a straight beeline
As the Romans at Marathon/Diety, you can take both Paris AND Berlin with your starting warrior if it spawns in the right place.
Trust me. I've had plenty of experience with this.
No suggestions or anything, other than to say I'm really looking forward to this story, and also to seeing how the rest of the world turns out. Will Roosevelt still be caught with his pants down if he's already at war? Will Elizabeth use her relatively protected location to turn into a monster? Will Caesar seize the opportunity to go to war with his praetorians? How many wonders will Louis build for him?
I think Alex is my sleeper candidate for success on this map.
Good story so far Qin of the world
Yeah Europe will be interesting. I've played this map zillions of times putting different civs in Europe trying to stir up some action there and give one of them a chance to win but it's weird. You can pack the 4 biggest warmongers right up snug with the 4 biggest peacemongers and it still turns into a love-in for some reason and the result is much the same as normal. Totally unhistorical too
Monty will still pwn Roosevelt, I mean he DOWs him virtually immediately most games anyway, but because he's such a tech doofus it won't help him in the end An always-peace game would be the way to reverse the trend there, and then North America is enough land for 2 AI civs to jointly top the leaderboard at first contact if they knuckle down to rexing instead of fighting.
Will Monty still be a tech doofus in isolation? I'd think his unit-spamming wouldn't be as bad since he'd never go into war-planning, and because it's no-tech-trades an isolation civ doesn't suffer that badly in terms of trade.
Roosevelt is definitely going to die. He may be in the process of dying right now in fact.
Hey Neal, any chance of a 4000BC save?
I meant to get a round up today, but some other things got in the way. Early next week, KotW fans! And as per a 4000 B.C. save, just load up the mod and run a "Custom Scenario" of Earth 18 Civs with the "Always War" option selected.
I thought it was real always war?
That's the mod I linked to it in the first post.
Oh, ok I missed the 'load up the mod' part.
Can't seem to get the MOD to work. I unzipped it, loaded the mod, but when I start the game it starts on the technology adviser screen, and when I play the AIs are only at war with me. Also, the mini-map doesn't show up and I can't look into my cities.
You're running BUG mod in customassets, which usually causes this. Copy your customassets folder elsewhere and the game should create another one, and it should work. If you want to play vanilla(with BUG) again, rename the new customassets folder and put the old one in.
Round is played. I'll write it up tomorrow. Here's the save for those of you who want a sneak peek:
Qin Shi Huang was in his element now. He was at war on three fronts, true, but his foes were a strategically inept madman to the north, a peacemonger blocked off by jungles and mountains to the south, and his one worthy foe was blocked off by the sea of Japan to the east. Garrisons would need to be built up, surely, and borders would need to be patrolled. But the economic situation could now be focused on and, indeed, the great prize of the Cho-Ko-Nu was nearly within his grasp. Then China would expand, spreading like a field of bamboo and obliterating all those who stood in its way.
After some consideration, Qin gave up on the idea of founding Pyongyang, considering it timid. Cities were clustered tightly when an empire was weak and beset on all sides by strong enemies. And China was none of these things. So no, the Settlers from Seoul left Korea, intending to go southward, into the trackless jungles. As they marched, Beijing learned that Tokugawa, already hampered by the logistical difficulties of an island kingdom, also suffered the indignities of disloyal subjects:
Japan would suffer throughout the round, with fires, bandits, and pestilence. None of them were crippling, but minor disadvantages this early can prove disastrous. Asoka, meanwhile, began to flex his feeble muscles, sending Warriors and then Archers into China to wreak havoc. And Genghis Khan's Archers began to be supplemented by Chariots. Lambs to the slaughter, all. Not that we know how to slaughter lambs, what with our lack of Animal Husbandry, but still.
In 1525 B.C., the shining city of Hong Kong was founded in south China:
Resource-rich, and positioned perfectly for defense against India. Qin was pleased with this border, but displeased with the effect this fourth city had on his treasuries. Research was dialed back, eventually to 50%. The costs of empire are high, indeed.
Despite his setbacks, Tokugawa managed to gain a foothold on the mainland by 1400 B.C.:
This was a mere colony, a rudimentary outpost, but its implications were troubling. An Archer was sent to a nearby hill to watch over the fledgling city and keep it bottled up. The garrison was manned by a mere band of Warriors, but Qin decided on patience and prudence. 33% odds did not tempt him. Archers were numerous in China by now. Qin's empire was now a hedgehog, weak on the offense, but a prickly target for his enemies.
The Oracle was completed, revealing the secrets of Metal Casting:
And after finishing a few pre-chops in Korea, a Forge was completed in Seoul. Qin rolled his eyes upon seeing the ETA for a Great Engineer and, therefore, for Machinery: 50 turns! Oh, well. We'll at least have time to develop our lands and economy before going to proper war.
In 1100 B.C., an interesting prospect for peace emerged:
The Chinese Emperor readily agreed to the mediation. The potential for an honest trade partner, even the grouchy Tokugawa, in a world at war was too good to pass up. The gambit was doomed, though. As soon as a treaty was declared, the Japanese reneged, hacking the negotiator to pieces and tossing his bloody chunks into Kyoto's Fish resource.
Francisco Pizarro was born 50 years later after a number of other skirmishes on Chinese lands:
He wanted to go out on a Conquest across the oceans. He wanted to seek gold and to spread the Chinese way of life on other continents. He was patiently reminded that the Chinese lacked Sailing, much less Astronomy, and that he would be more useful training recruits in Beijing's Barracks. He reluctantly agreed, and has been churning out 5 XP units for some time now.
By 600 B.C., China was ready for, if not total war, then for a few minor excursions. Iron Working had revealed (surprise!) valuable ore in Beijing's outskirts, and well-trained Swordsmen were beginning to roam the roads. Tokugawa's outpost, still stuck in the stone age, was invaded and crushed:
Netting us a Worker and some badly needed gold.
By this time, Karakorum, too, was ready to be invaded:
Qin was sure that Genghis Khan had had the foresight to set up an Arctic redoubt somewhere. Surely he'd had a hole he could hide in while his capital was "pacified." But no, the loss of his Settler centuries before had apparently severed his last link to sanity. He drunkenly led his Chariots into battle against Chinese Spearmen. He was butchered like the rest. One threat, at least, was down for the count.
So here we are at 500 B.C. Karakorum is officially Chinese, and is working on a Monument to its conquering hero. Writing has been finished, as I am thinking that a few Libraries may be in order. We have a decision to make regarding research:
I'm thinking Animal Husbandry or Sailing, though settling in for Mathematics is also tempting.
Here's a look at our mighty empire:
So what do you think? Hong Kong is steadily filling up with troops, both to defend against Asoka and in preparation for an attack. Seoul is building a Settler to finally take Pyongyang (or thereabouts- the city site turns out to be Iron, which I'd rather not settle on) and then the Colossus to inject some life into our economy. And Beijing, after its Granary, will build a Library to fuel our research. So what do you all think? We're still a couple dozen turns away from our Great Engineer, and I'll need a few turns of research into Machinery before he can finish it. How much, though? What's the formula? And what should our medium-term plan be? Build up and expand into Siberia and southeast Asia? Slog through the jungles and hit Asoka? Build a fleet to take out Japan? Are Swords enough, or should we await our Unique Unit? I look forward to your ideas.
Build up a navy of Triremes to combat Toku's Galleys. Build a couple of cities southward to Vietnam (given you have Calendar) or Harbin/SE Russia (if you don't).
And regarding Asoka he starts slow but becomes a beast later on, so watch your west flank. Build a few Archers and Axemen and send them to Burma to watch for invasion forces.
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