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King of the World #7: Saladin

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Neal, Oct 22, 2008.

  1. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

    May 19, 2006
    Lisbon, Portugal
    In the end the decision of going after hatty or after Alex ( Asoka is not comparable until the jungle is cleared and you can let him do that for you ) is simply between a soft target that will add a lot to your economy but not much to the prod side and a probably much harder target that will make mincemeat out of the chariots you have as the bulk of the army, but that will add a lot to the prod side of the empire, not mentioning opening the door to the resource rich Europe.

    Seeing this ( and taking in account that your game is going pretty much like mine, besides the barb mercenaries :p ) I would suggest to make a small war vs hatty to take the 2 core cities that she normally has in the Nile FP, while you settle Armenia and start making a more metal-based army to take Alex
  2. FlammableWaffle

    FlammableWaffle Chieftain

    Oct 25, 2008
    Settle on the Caspian Sea while preparing more chariots to take Egypt and teching alphabet. Expand into africa a little (thanks great wall) and tech construction for a proper war with Alex.

    Around the time that Greece is coming out of revolt you get a Great Spy (thanks again great wall) that can help you with several techs as you tank your economy in a march of destruction into bloody, bloody Europe...
  3. Neal

    Neal King of the World

    Jun 17, 2007
    re: Persia- You all are right. Very well, Cyrus. The verdict is exile. Keep the tundra warm for us, m'kay? We'll be back for you in a few millenia.

    re: The Copper city- Where should it go? I like the Plains Hill north of the Stone. Any other suggestions?

    re: The target- Well, our forces are pretty darn close to decimated right now, so, even with superior production (which I'm not sure we have), building an army capable of battling Greece is a tall order. As has been pointed out, India is awfully far away, and, as Asoka clears the jungles, only becomes juicier with time. So it sounds like it's Egypt.

    re: Battle Plans- For the moment, I guess the plan is to take Memphis and Thebes and declare peace? What kind of army are we going to need? I know this sounds weird, but maybe we should forgo Axes altogether and make it an army of Chariots and CR Spearmen. It's not like Hatty's going to have melee units, and I've seen her defending cities with War Chariots before. Just a thought.
  4. Belisar

    Belisar Defender of Byzanz

    Apr 24, 2003
    Hatty before Alex (who can be taken care of once you have cats/phants).
    You delayed the northern production city, so getting up the numbers before you reach construction will be hard anyway.
  5. Tyrant Roger

    Tyrant Roger Warlord

    Apr 5, 2006
    Great thread and a good challenge on Emperor. Grab the metal, consolidate the economy, and kill Hatty with cats, axes, and whatever. Rinse and repeat with Alex.
  6. Neal

    Neal King of the World

    Jun 17, 2007
    Well, we've cut out the still-beating heart of yet another empire, picked a side in world politics, and suffered mightily for our past sins.

    To begin, I let Cyrus run along and play:

    I think we're done stomping on his face for a while.

    The next step was to rush a settlement to claim the copper:

    Culture isn't hugely important there, so I went straight to making it a military pump.

    I founded another settlement to claim the rest of the Arabian peninsula:

    It probably could have waited, but it'll make a nice Moai city one of these days.

    In 725 B.C., either Asoka built the Pyramids, or we've fallen woefully behind:

    So that makes him a somewhat juicier target, but he's still awfully far away. No, our first target would walk like an Egyptian.

    Before it was time to open hostilities, though, Alphabet started popping up amongst our more technologically savvy neighbors. That could only mean one thing. It was time for a TRADING MONTAGE!!!

    The AI drives a hard bargain, but I got pretty much everything I really needed. techwise, I finished up Construction and started on Monarchy. Happiness caps don't mess around on Emperor!

    Enough talk. It was time to teach Hatshepsut the meaning of Arab Justice:

    All right, fine. Maybe not Arab Justice. Maybe more Domination Win Justice. Your crime is having a thriving empire that is not mine. The punishment consists of Swordsmen, Spearmen, and Chariots.

    Of course, the Egyptians, conniving dogs that they are, refused to fight like men. They needed to hide behind their little friends:

    I haven't seen any Roman stacks yet, but Jerusalem is ready if one shows up.

    Speaking of stacks, ours rolled up to the gates of Thebes:

    And, just to rub it in, our troops raised Jewish battle flags outside the Buddhist stronghold:

    Except for Alexander, the Jewish bloc seems to be more long-term targets. May as well keep them happy for as long as we can, no? Besides, Mecca could use the extra :)

    Thebes fell, though not without cost:

    Archers are a pain, though the War Chariots melted like butter against my Spearmen. I need to get Catapults online, stat. Taking the Great Wall was nice, though. At least now I won't have to worry about fogbusting later on.

    My attention was on Egypt at this point. Thebes was ours, and our forces were converging on Memphis. I had largely forgotten about Cyrus. Cyrus, though, had apparently not forgotten about me:

    "Massive civil unrest," apparently incited by Persian agents. Why doesnt that ever happen to my enemies? That's catastrophic! Persepolis, once the source of Arabia's finest Archers, fell into its own personal Dark Age as Workers scrambled to repair the damage.

    That was a domestic problem. So long as that was an isolated incident, Cyrus remains more valuable to me alive than dead. If it becomes a trend, though...

    There was progress on the Western Front. Our forces, bolstered by a SuperMedic Chariot, closed on Memphis:

    That Chariot helped a lot under the withering assault of catapult stones.

    Apparently, our conversion made us the target for a general Holy War among the Buddhist faithful:

    So we're now at war with Hatty, Julie, and Asoka. And after taking Memphis:

    Our army was on its last legs. Our Egyptian forces were down to little more than enough troops to garrison our conquests.

    It was time to make peace. Unfortunately, only the battered Queen of the Nile would listen:

    So here we are, rulers of a sprawling empire wracked by unrest. We are at war from both the east and west (though Asoka isn't much of a warrior and that heathen Roman army will have to get through our Greek allies first). Our economy is in shambles. Persian brigands apparently haunt our borderlands. Things are grim, at least in the short term.

    Here's a look at the world as we know it:

    Thoe Egyptian cities are going to be crushed by culture until we can finish the job with Hattie.

    The worldwide tech situation:

    Mansa Musa also has Aesthetics on us, though we don't have anything to offer in return.


    I'm debating whether to buy allies in this war or just let it peter out on its own.

    And Power:

    As you can see, taking Memphis was... rather costly.

    So what should our next move be? I'm tempted to turtle for a while, patching our economy up as best I can, try to get Monarchy, get the citizens off the streets and back into the fields. Then again, maybe my best move at this point is to keep warring, and try to float the economy on plunder for a while.

  7. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity

    Jan 5, 2006
    Hatty has got to go. Build up your forces and declare on her again.
  8. Stewie0416

    Stewie0416 Who Cares?

    Jul 19, 2008
    Finish off hatty, then take a few Greek cities, let Asoka clear those jungles for u.
  9. Jet

    Jet No, no, please. Please.

    Mar 16, 2006
    Take your worker off the cows and rebuild the ivory camp to fix Mecca and Pasagardae. Hire two scientists each in Mecca and Pasagardae. You're wasting time if you're not generating GPPs. Otherwise I don't think you have anything to gain from turtling right now. What are you going to build, Colosseums? Keep building military and fighting.

    Damascus is terrible. The oasis doesn't come close to making up for the desert tiles. At minimum you should have given it more water tiles for Moai. But a production city southeast of Mecca would have been much better, and itself could have been OK for Moai later.
  10. JammerUno

    JammerUno King

    Aug 28, 2006
    Utrecht, Netherlands
    Why are you researching monarchy? There's two civs that already have it, HR won't save your economy, those unhappy citizens won't make the difference. Even if happiness were the problem, you have 3 different calender resources: dye, incense and spices. If Asoka gets the spices with his culture, trade for something with the dye you have. For saving your economy though; go with currency. The extra TR will help, so will selling techs for gold. Both calendar and currency might be trading fodder; monarchy probably won't.
  11. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

    Aug 23, 2007
    Research Currency now.
  12. uncarved block

    uncarved block Prince

    Jan 25, 2006
    I believe that "civic unrest" you got was an event, IIRC past games correctly. You get to choose whether or not to go after the target, and if you do, how much to spend for how much damage. You won't have to worry about more than a Spy or two from Cyrus from here on out, unless the RNG really messes with you again.
  13. Kietharr

    Kietharr Prince

    Nov 5, 2004
    For the moment, screw Asoka and Julius. Fortify Persepolis against any Indian attack while preparing to finish off Hatty, as her cultural pressure cripples thebes. REX up, found colonies down in Africa to claim luxuries and such when you feel that your economy can handle it. Most of southern Africa is jungle or plains/desert garbage that you can save for later when you need land for victory, just build a couple of cities to grab the rarer resources, there's a silver source near Lake Victoria and gems/gold can be found on the tip of the continent, the great wall removes any worries about barbarians pillaging your colonies, thanks hatty :) If you can, see if Alex will attack Julius for you, it really doesn't matter how much he likes you as frankly, with three or four cities tops he's not going to be a longterm threat.

    After you're good and ready you've then got to decide which end of Eurasia you're going to smash first, East Asia through India or Europe through Greece. Europe is easier due to its fragmentation, and makes world politics a lot easier, they're usually who I pick to kill off.

    There's also the option of going up through Russia via the Caucasus Mountains and attacking Europe that way if you really don't want to kill Alex, Russia is similar to Persia in that you can take a couple of their good cities and they've got to languish away in worthless tundra/plains/desert hell for the rest of the game, never really becoming a decent threat again. That option makes cleaning up Northern Asia/Siberia much easier as you won't have to fight a Russia that has been pumping units for a few thousand years out of her few good cities.
  14. Gagonite

    Gagonite Irishman

    Nov 6, 2005
    Caesar has a pretty strong army according to the power graph.. hopefully Alex'll be able to hold it off himself. If not.. well at least you won't have to suffer a -1 for declaring war on a friend of one of your friends.
  15. Quotey

    Quotey Emperor

    Jul 24, 2006
    Medina isn't up there... City naming project anyone?

    Is Parsagaedae Dezfhoul?
  16. Soirana

    Soirana Emperor

    Oct 13, 2008
    8 cities - 4 workers? Half of them near egyptian border:confused:

    Speaking about Rome. Praetorians is something serious, although you can bribe Frederick into war. This is not that bad. The more enemies for Rome the better.
    I also would have considered bribing Mansa against Hatchepsut.

    And yes don't research monarchey. Either currency or calendar would be better.

    And why on Earth you were running priest specialist instead of scientist? Or I missed you having a holy city?

    I also do not get why you need more spies (if any), but that is just me.:lol:
  17. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

    Apr 29, 2006
    berkshire, england
    Maybe you've overexpanded for the moment. However you probably would benefit from finishing off Hats so use peace treaty to rebuild your army then eliminate Egypt. Then maybe think about growing your cities a bit, cottages and scientists will help the economy in the short term while heading towards currency and CoL. Its very likely that you'll be able to pick up monarchy in trade at some point.
  18. Joshua368

    Joshua368 Warmongering builder

    Jun 12, 2008
    Have you played Emperor in your normal off-line games? This is pretty much the part where I have to hunker down a little and start running nothing but two scientists in pretty much all my cities that can afford it until the reach one of the two economy-saving techs, currency or code of laws. You can still keep building military in your top military city, but keep in mind that the only reason your economy would be afloat right now would be becaue your army is dead. :p

    Personally I prefer teching code of laws first (very easily reached through priesthood) as I like courthouses over markets, they aren't slider dependant and the espionage is really nice, and Caste System can save your hide if you can't earn money at 0%. But I suppose in your situation marketplaces will be better, if nothing else than for the extra happiness. (if you have any market resources?) The merchants are pretty great too.

    At any rate, it's time to quickly switch to specialists until your empire gets back on its feet, then you can switch them back down to production and long-term cottages.

    Edit: Oh, you didn't finish off Hatty properly, her culture will signifigantly handicap one of your new best cities. Looks like some catapults are in order there to at least take that one city out... then you can stay in war indefinitely until you're ready to actually finish her off.
  19. Chieron

    Chieron Warlord

    Mar 3, 2006
    Mecklenburg, Germany
    shame that Ecbatana is already founded.. Tabriz?

    Damascus should be Muscat, iirc.
    Parsagadae=Basra, but then Cyrus will found another Parsagadae..

    go finish off Hatty, or atleast remove her from the Nile valley.
  20. Neal

    Neal King of the World

    Jun 17, 2007
    re: Monarchy- I wasn't planning on researching it completely. I was trying to knock its trade price down a little. But yeah, I guess I've put enough beakers into it by now. And I think I can get Calendar in trade, which will unlock Incense, Dye, and (depending on Persepolis' border war with India) possibly Spices. So I'll switch to Currency posthaste. I'm favoring Currency because that'll provide an immediate influx of cash thanks to trade routes and the ability to sell off techs. Code of Laws will definitely be next, though.

    re: Egypt- I took a better look, and it turns out Thebes is pretty much free of cultural pressure. Memphis needs help, though, so yeah, I think I'll finish off Hattie. Maybe I'll invite Mansa along for the ride. Africa doesn't really have any super-premium city sites left, so if the Mali manage to conquer a city before we can, that's just fine.

    re: The Economy/Emperor- Yeah, this is my first time playing Emperor. Couldn't you tell? :) I've never had to make a desperation switch to a Specialist Economy before, but that looks like exactly what the doctor ordered, here.

    re: Damascus- It's also got some fish. But yeah, it's a pretty miserable city. Should have saved that Settler for maybe Ethiopia or something. Ah, well. Nothin' I can do about it now.

    re: Workers- Dah! My old nemesis! Lack of Workers! Well, with so many of my cities stuck in unhappiness, maybe a few Worker builds are in order. I must say, though, I don't think I'll be needing a "traditional" number of Workers in this game since most of what I conquer from here on out will be pretty well developed. You're right, though, in that four is not enough.

    re: Naming- I'm a little slack on it in this game since I'm going to be a-conquering, mostly, so I can remember cities by their original owners. Would you all prefer a more historically accurate map?

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