Kingdom Come: Deception (Game Thread)

[topsecret]

Oh, and @topsecret could you explain why you gave that reads list on page 8? It's kind of empty, really so I'm curious what prompted it. Also you had Rakkoon at the deepest level in scum, could you explain how he got there? Thanks.

Because I wanted to. Why would say it's "empty", per se?

Because exactly what I said - he was not posting much. His tone was quiet which is not what I am used to.

 

[pzelda]

So, with 40 mins to go it seems to be between Takhisis and Rakkoon. Tak has gone from 4 posts to 27, not that much analysis but more than Rakkoons 8 posts, which seem a lot of pointing but nothing to back it up. So I switch, unvote vote: Rakkoon.

This is a reasonable vote. He probably isn't with Tak either. He def was willing to lynch both as his only reason to switch was activity.
In post #104, he makes this weird RP thing, which I find fun but it's also something wolf can easily hide behind. Especially a new player who has an urge to post something but doesn't know what.
In #135 he nicely called out topsecret's questions. That looks towny. I really like that he further expands on it:

The specificness of topsecrets questions is the first thing that I can really put my finger on. Why would a townie be so specific about pairs of people to ask about, with direconallity to the requests.

I feel mostly good about him, although the list he made in #153 is lacking and def little forced. But you don't really expect good lists from new players. I guess he could be wolf, but I'm giving him a pass today for having three good comments.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Because I wanted to. Why would say it's "empty", per se?

Because mine on page four was, and got me in trouble. There was hardly any information available when I made mine, and not really much more when you made yours and Samson made his. Samson, I am pretty sure, did it because I more or less forced him into it and he's new so I got away with it. I made mine to see what would happen since I don't usually do things like that.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

In case anyone is wondering, I am still working my new strategy, and it's painfully hard. The urge to grab people by the throat and shake them to see what falls out is nearly overpowering in several cases.

 

[topsecret]

Because mine on page four was, and got me in trouble. There was hardly any information available when I made mine, and not really much more when you made yours and Samson made his. Samson, I am pretty sure, did it because I more or less forced him into it and he's new so I got away with it. I made mine to see what would happen since I don't usually do things like that.

Right. I was making reads based on my reads at the time. <Bad Joke> I'm not reading into it and neither should you.</Bad Joke>

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Right. I was making reads based on my reads at the time. <Bad Joke> I'm not reading into it and neither should you.</Bad Joke>

I have to read into it, because I told Samson at the time that someone would be.

 

[Dolbster]

Rethinking my Csargo TR since upon reflection he actually hasn't all that much different than his scumplay in past games. There's some differences, and I've only played with him as maf, but not much.

Feels like the other games we played together. Then I concede, I haven't see him as a wolf iirc.



Because I don't have an opinion on them?
I am wondering how much time it will take for Argon to claim the dog though.

Jo had made, like, four posts at this point

Pzelda still good

Rask looking at past games is pretty town, I think I'll move them from my null pool to my town pool

MJ's reads posts put him slightly above null for

I actually really like GK's reads post on me, Rask, and TS, and hope that he'll apply that effort to reading other people as well (said with the understanding that his Rask read is underwhelming, but time constraints and whatnot).

This is a SoC of D2. I have like 30 minutes until my next class AMA.

 

[Golden1Knight]

Thank you for answering my question in detail. I invite you to consider one point in addition to starting the town killing wagon; which is how it kept going. You jumped on. Why? It ran away. Why? I was actually past wanting to Lynch Tak and looking for a place to go, and Dolbster cheerfully made his case on the already overloaded Rakkoon wagon, which he apparently thought was a good case. Why? Why would he want me to join his already running away wagon? I'm a lot less concerned about him starting a wagon on a townie, heck I do that all the time...that's what people are questioning me about here now because I have been trying not to.

I'm concerned about how he drove that wagon home with such certainty. He knows a runaway wagon is bad for wagonomics, but he was so certain about Rakkoon that he was still pulling people on board even after it was running away. There are respected analysts in this game who never backed his case at all, but he was so certain about it being solid that he never wavered a bit.

And when I asked him specifically about this certainty, and asked Pzelda about something crazy...he answered for Pzelda that I am indeed crazy but never addressed my issue with him.

IMO, in a Dolbster-wolf situation defending that wagon (other than starting it) would only make sense if there was actual need for that. This implies that either LA or Tak are scum as well, as those were the only other popular wagons at the time (still risky and weird, joining an ongoing wagon is easier).

Unless he formed the wagon just to mess with wagonomics. Still, Dolbster-wolf could've just jumped away from the wagon after it gained momentum to come out less scummy.

I don't think we can go any further than that for now, maybe after the first wolf flip. Until then, most likely a poorly guided wagon.

 

[Csargo]

It's okay, I am in the write-up, so I am definitely town Dolby, no need to rethink anything.

TS in Franklin and here look fairly similar from my limited ISO of Franklin.

 

[Marcher Jovian]

Ok, there are several things I find lacking on your list. If you have a question for Knight, you should make it visible, make it a separate post if possible. You don't have any suspects. Name your top 3 wolves, so we can discuss a little. Without scumreads it feels like you made a list for sake of making a list.

My top 3 wolves are LordArgon, topsecret, and Dolbster:

LordArgon - I still find his shenanigans involving literacy to be pretty suspect. It feels like it could be an indirect way to try and expose the town's power roles, which are probably more likely to be literate than a vanilla townie. His vote was pretty suspect too—he was the second person to vote for Rakkoon after Dolbster, and I find his reasoning to be pretty poor: he said that Rakkoon had "horrible logic" but didn't point out any examples or try to correct Rakkoon. It feels to me like mafia spotted a town misread and jumped on it to save the survivor and get a townie lynched.

topsecret - has started looking a lot worse today. all the jokeyness since he started coming under pressure feels a bit like an attempt to distract. Looking back at his latest list, it's starting to seem a bit more suspicious. The two people named mafia suspects are the most obvious calls that no one would fault him for or find suspicious, and several of the entries are very basic, just saying a player is playing like normal, or he likes how a player is playing, or that he feels good about a player without any actual evidence or analysis

Dolbster - pretty obvious why he's here, started the lynch against a townie. Could have been a mislynch, could have been mafia trying to fake a mislynch, regardless it still makes him a top suspect.

Special shoutout to GamezRule for missing the cut despite doing almost nothing all game.

GoldenKnight would have been on this list, but I'm less suspicious after his latest big post where he provided some solid, in-depth analysis on topsecret and Dolbster (and some rather less in-depth analysis on Raskol)

 

[Csargo]

My top 3 wolves are LordArgon, topsecret, and Dolbster:

LordArgon - I still find his shenanigans involving literacy to be pretty suspect. It feels like it could be an indirect way to try and expose the town's power roles, which are probably more likely to be literate than a vanilla townie. His vote was pretty suspect too—he was the second person to vote for Rakkoon after Dolbster, and I find his reasoning to be pretty poor: he said that Rakkoon had "horrible logic" but didn't point out any examples or try to correct Rakkoon. It feels to me like mafia spotted a town misread and jumped on it to save the survivor and get a townie lynched.

topsecret - has started looking a lot worse today. all the jokeyness since he started coming under pressure feels a bit like an attempt to distract. Looking back at his latest list, it's starting to seem a bit more suspicious. The two people named mafia suspects are the most obvious calls that no one would fault him for or find suspicious, and several of the entries are very basic, just saying a player is playing like normal, or he likes how a player is playing, or that he feels good about a player without any actual evidence or analysis

Dolbster - pretty obvious why he's here, started the lynch against a townie. Could have been a mislynch, could have been mafia trying to fake a mislynch, regardless it still makes him a top suspect.

Special shoutout to GamezRule for missing the cut despite doing almost nothing all game.

GoldenKnight would have been on this list, but I'm less suspicious after his latest big post where he provided some solid, in-depth analysis on topsecret and Dolbster (and some rather less in-depth analysis on Raskol)

This is kinda where I'm at currently. TS + LA + 1. I don't particularly think Dolbster is a great third, but I need to go back and look at his scum game if I have time.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

IMO, in a Dolbster-wolf situation defending that wagon (other than starting it) would only make sense if there was actual need for that. This implies that either LA or Tak are scum as well, as those were the only other popular wagons at the time (still risky and weird, joining an ongoing wagon is easier).

Unless he formed the wagon just to mess with wagonomics. Still, Dolbster-wolf could've just jumped away from the wagon after it gained momentum to come out less scummy.

I don't think we can go any further than that for now, maybe after the first wolf flip. Until then, most likely a poorly guided wagon.

This is either "meta" or might be classed as "local experience." Both Takhisis and LordArgon are 'bad town' that produce wild chaos while they are in the game, with to some degree the honorable intention to get reactions from everyone before getting flipped as town so those reactions can be read. As a wolf I would want to keep both of them around as fountains of chaos that could be easily mislynched later. I might not put in the effort that I would put in to save a scum-buddy, but I wouldn't be looking to see either one lynched day one either.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

My top 3 wolves are LordArgon, topsecret, and Dolbster:

Individually all three of your cases are good. Collectively, all three of them were riding together on a runaway town wagon five minutes before EoD. I have seen two of them wolfin' up close, and there's no way that happens if those three are wolves together. I think you have one, for sure, two at the outside.

 

[Marcher Jovian]

Individually all three of your cases are good. Collectively, all three of them were riding together on a runaway town wagon five minutes before EoD. I have seen two of them wolfin' up close, and there's no way that happens if those three are wolves together. I think you have one, for sure, two at the outside.

This is why I’m leaning towards LordArgon today, if he flips mafia it’d make Dolbster a lot more likely to be town or vice-versa. With topsecret I think we’d get less information if we end up getting it wrong and we could go into day 3 on a tight schedule without much information to help.

 

[Dolbster]

This is why I’m leaning towards LordArgon today, if he flips mafia it’d make Dolbster a lot more likely to be town or vice-versa. With topsecret I think we’d get less information if we end up getting it wrong and we could go into day 3 on a tight schedule without much information to help.

I was agreeing with your analysis up until here. I really don’t get the conclusion that me/LA is an unlikely team. With Tak, LA was the obvious beneficiary of my Rakk wagon, and heck, I even wanted both Tak and Rakk dead before LA at pretty much every point. On another hand, I can def see my death providing more info than TS’s, but TS’s death provides more info than LA’s (and let me be clear, I’m in no way supporting an info lynch)

 

[Marcher Jovian]

Because if you and LA were a team, then that means mafia went 1 and 2 trying to get a townie lynched. I’m also less worried about the double mafia scenario because in that case then we’ve already gotten a mafia day 2 and we’ll have more time to figure stuff out. Double mafia isn’t impossible, it just needs the mafia to have been very aggressive on day 1, and even then, it’ll looks like a pretty good situation for town for day 3.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Visor, if you are still reading this I regret not joining the CFD on Topsecret. I'll do my best to make up for it.

@Samson, because you are new I want to point this out to you. As town, getting lynched or night killed doesn't mean that you lost. If the town wins, you win, even if you are dead. As a townie we owe it to Visor and Rakkoon to carry the game for them.

 

[topsecret]

Visor, if you are still reading this I regret not joining the CFD on Topsecret. I'll do my best to make up for it.

If I'm mafia [I'm not], who are my partners?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Who wants to see Dolbster and @LordArgon in the thunderdome?



Show of hands.

If I'm mafia [I'm not], who are my partners?

I didn't say you were. I just regret not realizing that Visor and Raskol recognized that Rakkoon and Tak was a town town choice and that a CFD at that point was the best play. I've been pestering Dolbster about why he didn't jump off the Rakkoon wagon. It was running away and he talked a lot about suspecting you and that was the time to back it up. But in retrospect I should have backed their play myself.

By the way, jumping to Gamez was a sort of throw away vote there at the end, don't you think? I mean, you couldn't very well join the CFD when you jumped off the runaway since you were the CFD, but some people might see that as a move to keep anyone else from jumping off...someone who might have jumped to your wagon.

 

[topsecret]

Who wants to see Dolbster and @LordArgon in the thunderdome?



Show of hands.

I'm already voting for Dolbster. Most people aren't voting.

I didn't say you were. I just regret not realizing that Visor and Raskol recognized that Rakkoon and Tak was a town town choice and that a CFD at that point was the best play. I've been pestering Dolbster about why he didn't jump off the Rakkoon wagon. It was running away and he talked a lot about suspecting you and that was the time to back it up. But in retrospect I should have backed their play myself.

Ahh, makes sense. I would've honestly been happier with that.

By the way, jumping to Gamez was a sort of throw away vote there at the end, don't you think? I mean, you couldn't very well join the CFD when you jumped off the runaway since you were the CFD, but some people might see that as a move to keep anyone else from jumping off...someone who might have jumped to your wagon.

Consider three things:
1. When I switched to Gamez, Csargo was still voting him. Which means it had as much traction as the CFD on me.
2. As you said, I couldn't vote myself, but I did vote for someone who had a vote already.
3. My vote couldn't stop anyone from voting me (and in fact, ended up being a solo vote because of Csargo's switch.) It's much easier to stay on Rakkoon to save my neck instead of switching.