KISS Files - Term 5

[fe3333au]

Chat with Dags to confirm the game mechanics of the deal

sixpackholiday: hi fe
fe3333au: hey
sixpackholiday: just very briefly..
fe3333au: yep
sixpackholiday: i played the save ... and have meticously checked ... you should have rep now ... and i'm sorry for my latest bummer
fe3333au: I believe that we have and have sent you the required techs
sixpackholiday: yes you have
fe3333au: **** happens

Everyone now happy
sixpackholiday: we're very pleased that the swap is now done ... and hope you are too
fe3333au: yep
fe3333au: and also the security of a lengthy period of peace

Just making sure correct proceedures done
sixpackholiday: after i did the move in diplo screen, i checked again to see if we had anything to offer, but rep was gone from our side ... so *cross fingers*
fe3333au: cross fingers about the Republic?
sixpackholiday: funny thing was, when diplo opened both your techs AND rep was on the table as if it was pre-selected
fe3333au: first screen?
sixpackholiday: yup

< We sent back with accept >
fe3333au: I think it required you to accept
sixpackholiday: yes i did
fe3333au: excellent
sixpackholiday: i was just surprised i didn't have to choose rep from our side of the table???
fe3333au: I think was sent previous turn?
sixpackholiday: i think that too, but that was the problem...it didn't show up at your place ... so i thought i had made a miss
fe3333au: don't know what happened ... but fixed now

sixpackholiday: sorry i have to go ... just wanted to tell we have attached rep ... and that we got your techs
fe3333au: cool cya
sixpackholiday: cya

Everything is now peachy kean

 

[Chamnix]

sixpackholiday: i was just surprised i didn't have to choose rep from our side of the table???
fe3333au: I think was sent previous turn?
sixpackholiday: i think that too, but that was the problem...it didn't show up at your place ... so i thought i had made a miss

Dag played turn 84 and tried to send Rep but didn't - that's when it didn't show up at our end. Tubby played 85 and sent Rep, so it did show up on our end this turn. Is anybody awake over at KISS?

 

[fe3333au]

And thus the problems of a non-structured anachistic approach become apparent

But we got it now ... republic free to trade on as we wish

 

[fe3333au]

Intel from a chat with Whomp ... not posted cos it was more about cIV Demogame gossip concerning the disappointing news about a known player (also invoolved in our game on the D-Nut team ... he has been dealt with and will no longer dance these forums) who has through his actions, caused a delay in the first cIV Demogame

... and we also discussed personal RL stuff (I went computer AWOL just prior to xmas).


Relivant Intel

Anyway KISS new player scoutsout ... is the same one that has writtem articles in the Military Academy, so an accomplished strategist.

KISS have about 17 active to semi-active players.
> to this I mentioned that we have support from returned player (I mentioned no numbers) and that a new player has at least said hello

 

[peter grimes]

I'll take a handful of smart, dedicated teammates over a bag of marbles anyday.

 

[classical_hero]

Remember, they are bunch of Idiots compared to our civilised folk here.

 

[Kentharu]

we could use the other teams to try and gather intel about KISS for the up coming war

 

[peter grimes]

Has anyone had a chat with these guys lately?.... Or are we intnetionally going silent?

In any case, after we play turn 91, and the barbs appear, we are sure to get a call

 

[fe3333au]

I have been chatting with various KISS members (Whomp, Dags, Tubby and Admiral_K) on different subjects ... thus giving them ample opportunity to bring any MIA matters up .... nothing.

I have not bought anything up because I feel asking questions will give away our intentions ... however I am willing to discuss anything people want ... just let me know.

 

[peter grimes]

Good to know! I was afraid that we were going incommunicado, which would seem very suspicious to them. I just don't want to tip our hand to them, and risk letting them know prematurely that we're planning on hitting them hard if they hit us.

 

[fe3333au]

Just chatting with Whomp about cIV and a SG I am involved in (Scout also involved ... many KISSers)

bawhomp: hey ... just about to play gramharriet's game

< Great Game ... we even let lurkers have a turn ... we are Mongols .. 10 turns and next player
and NO RESEARCH What fun >

< Polls to restrat the cIV demogame >

Topic ... How Demogames should be played
fe3333au: anarchy ... the KISS model of playing ... would be fun
bawhomp: it works best but ... it's the SG model really ... come to a consensus and roll with it

And Then
bawhomp: but it seems we haven't been as good at trading as MIA
bawhomp: very shrewd move
fe3333au: we were very worried that it would happen to us
bawhomp: hmm...
bawhomp: well it changes things for sure

Were KISS not also engaged in trade talk ?!!
fe3333au: what were your dealings with TNT like?
bawhomp: we have none
fe3333au: were you not haggling for Construction ?!!
bawhomp: they sent back an email after you traded with them
fe3333au: must have been a fun read ... not
bawhomp: they said they were "constricted"
bawhomp: whatever that means

Stating the obvious
bawhomp: now they're the tech leader with you
fe3333au: unfortunate yes

Want to trade ??
fe3333au: you still open to wines for ivory?
bawhomp: i don't know...
bawhomp: we feel insecure right now
fe3333au: We have since things went hatwire ... about the trade offer upto you intention is there
bawhomp: the agreement was all techs
bawhomp: per agreement with UN

bawhomp: you don't have to talk about this btw
fe3333au: I don't mind ... we talk in chracter ... and then talk OT other times

fe3333au: brb coffee <kettle was singing>

About our warrior traipsing the KISSlands
fe3333au: so you telling us to move the warrior that just cleared the barbcamp to move back to our half of continent?
bawhomp: who said that?
fe3333au: no-one ... just asking ... as I'd prefer to unstress things and not have an inadvertant catalyst
bawhomp: i'm not sure what to make of things anymore. You seem to have the perfect partner

Still liked it better with KISS
fe3333au: no we had the perfect partner
bawhomp: not really ... they are scientific and so are you

< Interesting Comment >
bawhomp: we are a threat due to our ag feature
fe3333au: cold logic wise ... I guess you are correct ... but personality of leader (team's) it is certainly no happy match
bawhomp: well i can say our team will not be happy when they see it but that's the way the ball bounces. The good news is you two have lowered the price of construction
fe3333au: yep
bawhomp: shrewd ****

About the game esperience
fe3333au: I never thought I'd find a game that has all (or most) of the elements that has gotten to me in a big way ... when my computer went down ... I was frustrated about this game LOL
bawhomp: tell me ... until chamnix got online we were in the dark

History
bawhomp: talk about last second dealings
fe3333au: I never saw you guys around on AIM ... I think it was the xmas stuff changing our respective on-line times ... i only really ended up talking to Dags
bawhomp: yeah well it worked out
fe3333au: I sent the last agreement proposal ... and we just didn't get any feedback or contact
bawhomp: we responded and countered
fe3333au: Yes and we got excited and were agreeing when you countered again with all deals are off letter
bawhomp: hold on
bawhomp: brb
bawhomp: that could've been a mistake since we didn't have any trading with the others and we didn't like that aspect of things

< Military Strength noted >
bawhomp: now you're building military

fe3333au: the proposal called Xmas Treaty or something was good and we were agreeing (no-one on AIM) ... and one or two days later the all deals are off

< AVERAGE Strength ... Even ... Equal >
fe3333au: now we are equal in military strength ... and have barbs to deal with

KISS Perspective of now
bawhomp: can you understand that a fast research pace is to TNT and your advantage?
fe3333au: yes
bawhomp: well then you have your partner it seems
fe3333au: I guess
bawhomp: not bad considering you get 2 MA techs out of the gate
fe3333au: that was roll of dice fingernail biting scenario
bawhomp: high probability

Lets not start hostilities
fe3333au: well we won't start anything if you don't
bawhomp: what do you propose?

My Perspective ... and hopes ... of non-agressive eqistence and harmony
fe3333au:
well we see the continent divided equally as it is ... is good
we are unwarlike ... and do not want to fall into Battle Island trap ... where war is perpetual
and we offer the wines for ivory anytime you want to take it up
bawhomp: we don't need luxs

Tech trading ... hmmm ... it will be difficult but ...
fe3333au: regarding trade of knowledge I cannot say anything one way or another ... but we are open to receiving proposal ... it must be marked confidential and we would not speak to others about it
bawhomp: there's not much we can propose since we are 3 techs behind
fe3333au: at this stage
bawhomp: we will just have to research harder it seems
fe3333au: yep

< I thought reference to Republic >
bawhomp: so much for researching a govt. pretty stupid it seems
fe3333au: no we were even when our relationship ended
bawhomp: govts. are not equal just like pottery is not equal
fe3333au: are you researching another government ??? ... I don't understand
bawhomp: we may
fe3333au: oh ...

< Unexpected Intel ... KISS researching Monarchy >

Future is bright and rosey ???
fe3333au: well I hope it does not come to blows ... that would be sad thing ... and very very beneficial to Nuts
bawhomp: the advantage of our trait...
fe3333au: Thats a good trait ... I usually play religious

< Note ... if Nuts are also researching Monarchy then all but us want crowns :LOL: >


< About the SG game concept >

KISS player connections
bawhomp:
pretty much all KISS are SGers
all but maybe 4 or 5 that we didn't know.
there were some great surprises in 2 of them
of the lurkers Zerksees and Ansar are the only non KISS members

<About MIA>
fe3333au: we are getting more active members ... about 7 now ... and a new guy who is from Chicago
bawhomp: nice
fe3333au: our latest addition ... he is financial like you
bawhomp: from chicago?
fe3333au: LOL he said committments and g/f will be reasons not to input too much ... but he comments on most things LOL I see the signs ... Adiction ;-)
bawhomp: he's done
fe3333au: yes ... he is just looking for name ... gbno1fan ... newbee ... joined in Jan
bawhomp: tell him to pm me
fe3333au: I will ask him to

So if you want to meet a Civer in Face Space ... can you PM Whomp

KISS Polling
bawhomp: we have our first poll
fe3333au: KISS?
bawhomp: yep
fe3333au: first poll ... far out we have had many
bawhomp: Bruce Lee or Chuck Norris
fe3333au: I vote no war with MIA ;-)
bawhomp: I said votes are based on age ... so Bruce Lee is kicking ass
fe3333au: ha ha ha ...
fe3333au: who would be the next era action star?
bawhomp: Mr. Miyogi
fe3333au: wax on wax off
bawhomp: or Vin Diesel which immediately got shut down
fe3333au: yeah that guy

<Talked of weather and then cIV Demogame>

Well we know they are tense ... and have noted new friendship ...

But we know they are researching Monarchy ... interesting as Nuts are as well

 

[Chamnix]

But we know they are researching Monarchy

fe3333au: are you researching another government ??? ... I don't understand
bawhomp: we may

That's not exactly commital...

fe3333au: and we offer the wines for ivory anytime you want to take it up

If we go to Feudalism, then we won't need another luxury. Our 5 native luxuries will keep our size 6 towns happy (which is as big as most will get), and 3 MP can let select towns grow to size 9. We could consider selling a luxury, but we might be better off without a deal.

 

[fe3333au]

Was just fishing ... Whomp started it off with the shrewd move comment

He did mention the researching government a couple of times ... seems logical for a religious civ to do.

The offer for trade was also just a ruse to get him talking ...

But am I right with this ... At this stage, we do not require trade of luxuries with others ?!!

 

[gbno1fan]

but he comments on most things LOL I see the signs ... Adiction ;-)
bawhomp: he's done

So true...

Other than that, very interesting developments (or confirmations, whatever you prefer). KISS is not oblivious to the world, as would have been nice.

bawhomp: now you're building military

I expect this means they will start building also. We're now committed to at least a Cold War.

 

[General_W]

Here are the 3 key patterns in this chat that I noticed&#8230;
1) Jealousy
2) Rejection of Peace
3) Threats of War

Here are the highlights from the chat&#8230;

1) Jealousy seethes through&#8230;

bawhomp: now you're building military
-----
bawhomp: can you understand that a fast research pace is to TNT and your advantage?
fe3333au: yes
bawhomp: well then you have your partner it seems
bawhomp: not bad considering you get 2 MA techs out of the gate
------
bawhomp: so much for researching a govt. pretty stupid it seems
fe3333au: no we were even when our relationship ended
bawhomp: govts. are not equal just like pottery is not equal​

2) Offer of peace met with distain:

fe3333au: well we see the continent divided equally as it is ... is good we are unwarlike ... and do not want to fall into Battle Island trap ... where war is perpetual and we offer the wines for ivory anytime you want to take it up
bawhomp: we don't need luxs​

3) Cryptic Threats of Violence&#8230;

fe3333au: well I hope it does not come to blows ... that would be sad thing ... and very very beneficial to Nuts
bawhomp: the advantage of our trait...
--------
bawhomp: we have our first poll
fe3333au: KISS?
bawhomp: yep
fe3333au: first poll ... far out we have had many
bawhomp: Bruce Lee or Chuck Norris

* Maybe Fe can correct me on this &#8211; but I took this as a veild thread against Chuck Norrisville &#8211; first KISS poll on which city to attack first? Or am I totally misreading that? ​

Anyway &#8211; all signs point to war as far as I can see.

Anyone have a happier spin on this?

 

[peter grimes]

* Maybe Fe can correct me on this &#8211; but I took this as a veild thread against Chuck Norrisville &#8211; first KISS poll on which city to attack first? Or am I totally misreading that?

I didn't take it that way, but now that you mention it.......

I took it to mean "Who is the better fighter?... After whom should we rename our Golden Age trigger unit?"
In other words, we're going to attack you, and we've had to hold a poll to figure out how to name this all important unit that triggers our Golden Age.

Well I humble submit that we give them no chance to start a Golden Age by stacking Hoplites into our Northern Cities! To the lines, Gentlemen! Glory Awaits!

 

[fe3333au]

3) Cryptic Threats of Violence&#8230;

fe3333au: well I hope it does not come to blows ... that would be sad thing ... and very very beneficial to Nuts
bawhomp: the advantage of our trait...
--------
bawhomp: we have our first poll
fe3333au: KISS?
bawhomp: yep
fe3333au: first poll ... far out we have had many
bawhomp: Bruce Lee or Chuck Norris

* Maybe Fe can correct me on this &#8211; but I took this as a veild thread against Chuck Norrisville &#8211; first KISS poll on which city to attack first? Or am I totally misreading that? ​

I wouldn't read anything into this statement ... my initial reaction was WRF ... but ... I don't know if it is just an unfortunate slip ... or if anything a piece of spoiler intelegence ... I do not believe that KISS have a poll with target options for the vote :shakehead

However that being said, I do not believe that we will not experience aggression before the dawn of the next age

EDIT ... rereading the full transcript ... I think Whomp was just commenting about the fact KISS have recently gotten younger members ... those more familiar with Chuck than with Bruce ...

 

[classical_hero]

Anyway – all signs point to war as far as I can see.

Anyone have a happier spin on this?

I think that we are being played as fools. I really do not think that we needed to show of our hand so early. I think we were too worried about what they might do, when we should be trying to focus on our game plan and the future of this game because we are going down a path that will lead us to only one option and we might live to regret it. We have shown our hand way to early and we might have gotten ourselves in too far than what we should have done in the first place.

 

[Chamnix]

Get ready for showtime - received via PM from Tubby Rower:

Our treaty

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear MIA,

Here at KISS we are baffled by the back-stabbing that happened. We received an email from TNT about a potential trade for Construction. They said that they were "constricted" and the parting statement was "Enjoy the war with MIA."

4. MIA and KISS will offer each other "Most Favoured Nation status". Most Favoured Nation simply means that we will offer what we learn at the monoploy beaker cost less the Emperor trade rate discount of 20% if, and only if, MIA will reciprocate. Other nations will pay monopoly beaker cost. No shared research, no sweet heart deals, just cold number crunching.

4a. Deals with other nations which go beyond simple technology trade at the monopoly beaker cost for, must be agreed to by the other party

This is the deal that went down between MIA and TNT with beaker costs....

MIA receives Construction (600) and prolly free tech if it's not the same as what they got. (1080 or 960)

TNT Receives CoL (261), Lit (261), MM (315), Poly (315), Republic (735), and prolly MIA's free tech (1080 or 960)

excluding the MA free techs since it's pretty much a wash, that means TNT is receiving 1626 beakers worth of techs and MIA only receives 600. Even if you give TNT the more expensive MA tech, that only adds 120 beakers. no where close to the 1026 beakers worth that the techs make.


We are concerned about this and request an explanation. An acceptable solution would be for MIA to gift Construction as well as at least one of the free techs that were ill-gotten.

Please reply before our turn as delay will read as a declaration of war from MIA.

Tubby of the KISSers

 

[Chamnix]

Unfortunately, looking at the treaty, they are right - we were relying on chats that said we could make any trades we wanted.

EDIT - Nevermind. There was official correspondence.

We will definitely reply when I send the turn if fe3333au isn't around before them, but we are on firm legal footing.