KISS Files - Term 5

[classical_hero]

EDIT: x-post with Classical_Hero. Interesting how we come to opposite conclusions!

It does seem for awhile that my views have been quite different from the majority on some issues.

 

[Chamnix]

Here’s my first attempt:

Dear Whomp (and KISS):

You certainly cannot blame yourself for the breakdown. We were not relying solely on Chamnix’s chat with you, but also chats with other members of KISS and, most of all, your official correspondence signed by Team KISS. Perhaps you are right that techs should have been discussed in your chat with Chamnix, but Chamnix and other KISSers were there who also neglected to bring it up. If there was miscommunication, no single individual or single team is to blame.

We felt (and still feel) strongly that KISS had ended the trading clauses of our agreement and left only the peace deal in place, and multiple correspondences led us to this conclusion. We do not see any other reasonable interpretation of your January 4 official correspondence. We are an honorable team and would never have acted as we did had we known that you did not have the same understanding.

TNT was always a second choice as partner for us - we would much rather return to KISSMIA. Unfortunately, due to the perceived strain in KISSMIA, we were forced to agree not to provide you with techs traded with TNT, and we cannot break our word. We realize there will be strain caused by our being ahead in technology, but we hope there is a way to work around this – perhaps an exchange of luxuries with some extra gold from our end to help you kick-start your research (and slow ours down). It is not an ideal solution, but after millennia of friendship it would be awful to see our continent descend into the same type of destructive warfare that has plagued the Battle Isle.

I doubt we could actually agree on a reasonable amount of gold, but I think we just want to start talking again.

 

[General_W]

Looks great to me Chamnix!
(although – it was a little odd to see you talking about yourself in the 3rd person)

It would be sweet if we could re-start peace talks… but I sincerely doubt it.

I think peter may have hit on something here…

He uses a common technique by assuming the blame and anger that other KISSers (and probably Whomp himself) feel is rightly directed at us. This makes Whomp come across as plaintive and responsible, which is important if KISS wants the peace to continue. If they were not interested in maintaining the peace, I really don't think this letter would have the supplicating tone that is in each and every line.

But I think he may be drawing the wrong conclusion…

Whomp is assuming the blame and coming across as plaintive because his team is about to violate the 10 turns of peace deal. As an honorable guy, he feels bad about this – but is offering himself as the scapegoat for why is team is about to attack without warning.

I know that sounds ominous, but it makes the letter make more sense to me.

That shouldn't stop us from trying to restart the peace (ala Chamnix's letter) – but I'm increasingly dreading opening our save and finding a stack of Gallic Swords in our territory and a nice little note that says "surprise, we're at war!"

 

[peter grimes]

I like the letter, though there is one section that didn't read too well. But I can't offer an improvement, so I'm fine letting it stand.

If KISS violates the 10-turns peace deal, I'm afraid they may have a rational reason to back it up. One interpretation is that, even though we are still at peace, because the other clauses of the deal are no longer in effect, there is no basis for honoring the 10-turn warning clause. Unfortunately, I can see their point of view here.

I hope the letter that is sent (whether it be this draft or a new one) helps KISS to realize that we would much rather have stayed in KISSMIA than seen it dissolved.

 

[Chamnix]

I quite honestly can't see KISS' point of view if they attack. The peace part is very specific - it cannot be cancelled until 10 turns after Republic and then only with 10 turns warning. The trading clauses have no such restrictions and can apparently be cancelled anytime, and KISS said they were cancelling them. I think if KISS attacks sooner, then they are breaking their word, plain and simple. That doesn't mean they won't do it anyway, but I cannot see how they could claim they were being honorable.

There is certainly no rush on this one, so Chamnix will not send the letter - Feaurius can doctor it up as he pleases and send it or not send it as he sees fit. And Chamnix seems nothing odd about referring to himself in the third person.

 

[Chamnix]

Just rereading... is there any way KISS can interpret

We are an honorable team and would never have acted as we did had we known that you did not have the same understanding.

as meaning we're sorry we broke the deal? It is not intended that way (we didn't break the deal), but maybe some clarification is necessary?

I just don't want there to be any way they can interpret our letter as an end of the peace deal, but I also don't want to bludgeon them with the fact that the peace deal is still active... anyone help?

 

[General_W]

How about this…

As a team, we highly value our honor. Please know that if we had known that KISS believed the trade restrictions were still in place, we would not have done anything that could be taken as us breaking our word. (refer to our polytheism deal – even though we didn't see things the same way, we honored what KISS understood to be MIA's promise.)

It was very clear to us that you intended to leave the tech-trading restrictions part of our treaty behind – and so we didn't think twice about moving on also.

I know that's longer – but hopefully a step in a clearer direction?

 

[peter grimes]

I like the longer version, but I would advise a couple of word changes, less for stylistic reasons and more for not wanting to plant ideas in their paranoid heads:

Please know that if we had known that KISS believed the trade restrictions were still in place,...

Please understand that if we had believed that KISS expected the trade restrictions to still be in place,...

I'm not sure if I've got it right there, but I'm trying to avoid the word 'know': I don't want them to think that we knew anything at all. The key is that we didn't know something, we believed something, and we were wrong to believe it.... even though we think we were right to believe it.

If that isn't confusing, then you didn't understand it correctly

 

[General_W]

I commented on this in the "what da heck are we gonna do" thread…

But what does everyone think of the idea of adding something like this…

"We would like to sign a new deal with you as the foundation for rebuilding our trust and alliance. We recognize that recent events make astraight-across the table peace deal unfair. However, we also recognize, the without a peace treaty the resulting arms buildup and eventual war will be a massive setback for both our great nations.
In that spirit, we would like to offer 5 gold per turn to you for 20 turns in exchange for guaranteed peace for 20 years. This will modestly slow down our research ability, allow you to accelerate yours – and both our peoples will prosper from a renewed commitment to peace.
We have no doubt that you will view this offer as insufficient to make up for the recent advances we made in technology without you. But it is our sincere hope that you will be able to look beyond that mentality. If there is to be peace – both of our peoples must start with a blank slate – and we view our offer of gold payments to you in exchange for a mutually beneficial peace as more than generous.

Regardless of how all the issues in our past happened – the bottom line is that you scared us immensely when you repeatedly signaled (in chats and official correspondence) your intention to abandon the treaty that has made both our empires rich and strong.

We panicked, and scrambled to find a new ally to save us from what we were certain was an impending attack.
2 things have changed since then – We realized that your military build-up was not as great as we initially feared, and Whomp confessed to mis-communicating your intentions with us.

On this basis – we have found new reason to hope that perhaps it was not your intention to bring our mutual peace to a violent end.

We therefore offer this 20 turn treaty as a simple starting place to get back on the road to peace.
We are certainly open to dialogue about where to go from there – but we desperately need you to respond within 24 hours to this olive branch.
On our next turn, we will be making some key decisions that will either put us on the path of peace, or on a course for war.
(rest assured, we will keep our word and give 10 turns notice before any violent action)

So please respond as soon as possible!
Thank you. "

Or – as Chamnix suggested – that may make us look too desperate.

Maybe something more brief like this…

"We would like to sign a new deal with you as the foundation for rebuilding our trust and alliance. We recognize that recent events make a straight-across the table peace deal unfair. However, we also recognize, the without a peace treaty the resulting arms buildup and eventual war will be a massive setback for both our great nations.
In that spirit, we would like to offer 5 gold per turn to you for 20 turns in exchange for guaranteed peace for 20 years. This will modestly slow down our research ability, allow you to accelerate yours – and both our peoples will prosper from a renewed commitment to peace.
Please respond within 24 hours. If you wait longer than this – we will be forced to assume that peace is no longer dear to your hearts as it once was.
(rest assured, we have no intention of starting any vile wars… and even if we get to a place where we are forced into it - we will keep our word and give 10 turns notice before any violent action)"

 

[Chamnix]

I really don't like making it explicit that we are giving gold for peace. To me, it would be obvious that we are buying time and makes an early attack more likely.

I think KISS is generally an honorable team - they may break their word on the first deal, but it will be because they (wrongly) perceive that we broke it first. Any new 20-turn deal that is signed now (a luxury exchange, for example), I believe they will see through to the end so a luxury exchange is to me a guarantee of 20 turns of peace.

I personally prefer the language in the original letter - we offer to pay them to help them catch up (an unspecified amount to see if we get a nibble first), and peace naturally follows.

 

[General_W]

I see what you're saying - but I was hoping to get a response from KISS before we make our government decision - and if we're going to request a quick response, I thought we needed to offer some explanation... and I got carried away from there.

Is there anyway we can work a "please respond in 24 hours" into your letter?

 

[Black_Hole]

I don't think we should be giving our hard earned gold to KISS, if they want peace we should openly accept it, but we shouldn't pay 100 gold for it.

 

[Chamnix]

I see what you're saying - but I was hoping to get a response from KISS before we make our government decision

I'm not sure what you want to learn. I know we agree that if real peace breaks out, then we want to be in Republic. But if KISS rejects the extended peace treaty (as they probably will), then we still don't know if that means war soon, war on turn 104, or a cold war. I thought we were leaning toward Republic even if we were going to have war on 104. The only way we will know that it is war now is if there are Gallic Swords in our territory when we receive the save, and by the time we see them we will have already selected a government.

I was very annoyed when Tubby sent me that PM saying respond by the time KISS receives the save or they will view it as a declaration of war. I think deadlines like that serve only to irritate people, and we should really avoid it.

 

[General_W]

yes yes - you probably get tired of hearing this - but you're very right.

I was just having a few moments of panic here at decision time, and was looking for a way out.

I feel much better now.
Please just ignore me.
Episode over.

 

[fe3333au]

I would say that no letter be sent ... at this stage until we get the save or more information from Whomp directly.

KISS I suspect have taken action ... I prefer to get the meaning of the letter from Whomp directly and will endeavour to do so through chat ... if unsuccessful ... The save will enlighten us as to KISS aggressiveness which will probably be shown.

How will this effect our strategy ?? ... It will not ... we are in the process of bolstering defences ... it is already highest priority ... and should remain so.

No point in sending anything until more information has been gleaned ... and also it was a letter from Whomp NOT KISS and therefore an official responce may cause unexpected repercussions for him ... something I am loath to do until I have spoken to him.

Therefore and unless I can be convinced otherwise ... The Foreign Office's Action is that, NO LETTER WILL BE SENT

EDIT ... Saying that, I hope that everyone who drafted and tweeked and suggested changes to the letter will not be discouraged in doing so in the future because input from everyone is virtually crucial at this point in the game

 

[fe3333au]

This is the draft of what I propose to send once we have seen what KISS has done on their save, if anything.

Dear Team KISS

We received a letter from Whomp and would like to address this. He certainly cannot blame himself for the communication breakdown. We were not relying solely on Chamnix’s chat with Whomp, Tubby and Daghie, but also previous chats and, most of all, your official correspondence signed by Team KISS. Perhaps you are right that techs should have been discussed in your chat with us, but Chamnix and the other KISSers present also neglected to bring it up. If there was miscommunication, no single individual or single team is to blame.

We felt (and still feel) strongly that KISS had ended the trading clauses of our agreement and left only the peace deal in place, and multiple correspondences led us to this conclusion. We do not see any other reasonable interpretation of your January 4 official correspondence. We are an honorable team and would never have acted as we did had we known that you did not have the same understanding.

Examples

4th January ... the Rejection Letter which appeared soon after the Xmas Deal .. which we were about to agree to
We regard the deal for Republic a grand finale of the above mentioned partnership and, thus, an end of previous made agreements. We would like to maintain a friendly relationship, but also to make way for each team to stand on their own when they decide to. Therefore, the proposed agreement sent by MIA will not be signed by KISS.

6th January ... Alliance is over ... confusion with 10 turns of Warning
fe3333au: But while you are here ... I need some clarification
fe3333au: When you say after Republic trade we will just be friends ... how does that effect the 10 turns warning to being attacked ... I consider that still to be the case ... am I correct
sixpackholiday: It means that we consider the previous deal ended ... and yes, with it all other arrangements
fe3333au: so after the republic swap does that mean you can attack us without warning?
sixpackholiday: theoretically yes, maybe, but I think admins should have a close look on our agreement ... in practice maybe one side cannot nullify it
sixpackholiday: without breaking it
fe3333au: I understand ... you must also understand that I came back to find the curt message about trade Republic and then our alliance is kaput
sixpackholiday: curt?
fe3333au: especially when on Xmas we had a proposal to continue
fe3333au: curt = blunt
sixpackholiday: ok
fe3333au: we were in the process of agreeing to most of the terms in Xmas deal

and ... dissappointment expressed
fe3333au: we are disappointed that we have not got an agreement to the end of AA
sixpackholiday: I understand that
sixpackholiday: I wasn't too happy writing that down

and ... Summary ... Republic without Polytheism
*my stance as it was a popped goddy which could have been popped later ... and added to the next stage .... Together Hand in Hand out of Ancient Age
sixpackholiday: to sum it up (help me):
sixpackholiday: You've got rep coming to ya...
fe3333au: you get all our techs except Poly
sixpackholiday: When recieved, you throw in your part
fe3333au: yes
fe3333au: then we will be two individual nations ... but trusting and friendly
sixpackholiday: when we get them we continue the rep deal and we're both out of despo
sixpackholiday: individuals but friends, yes


8th January ... Chamnix puts Polttheism back into deal
Chamnix says:
poly can definitely be part of the Rep deal as long as we are going to remain friends
Chamnix says:
we are very troubled by your cancelling our previous arrangement
Whomp says:
we are not cancelling the deal but we feel poly must be part of that deal
Chamnix says:
i believe daghda said that once the rep deal was consumated then our previous agreement was "null and void"?
Whomp says:
it expires with peace the way i read it
Chamnix says:
i don't understand
Whomp says:
we both have fulfilled our part of the republic for techs deal
Whomp says:
as long as all techs are included. we are at tech parity
Whomp says:
the only remaining part to fulfill is the peace part of the agreement
Drummer Boy says:
what we said in the announcement, IIRC, is that we would like a clean sheet after the rep deal is done in a satisfactory way
Chamnix says:
so you believe the peace deal is still in effect?
Whomp says:
if we are at tech parity
Chamnix says:
we thought Daghda meant you were cancelling the peace portion once republic was traded regardless of what techs were involved

and ... so since Republic was swapped for every tech ... alliance over ... 10 turns peace is active and binding.
Whomp says:
cham
Chamnix says:
i'm here
Chamnix says:
you're back faster than i expected
Whomp says:
sorry i was clarifying the peace part of the deal
Whomp says:
needed to review again
Drummer Boy says:
everything is cool
Whomp says:
so after both of us receive techs our deal is complete
Whomp says:
except for the 10 turns of peace
Chamnix says:
so we are at peace unless 10 turns warning is given, and no warning has been given so far, correct?
Drummer Boy says:
correctemundo
Whomp says:
actually i think it was terminate the peace was 10 turns

and ... renegotiate peace or 10 turns warning ... and see where our relationship goes
Whomp says:
after republic and the techs are exchanged the deal is complete
Whomp says:
then we can either renegotiate peace or turn it off. there is 10 turns minimum of peace after the deal is done
Whomp is searching for:
there is also 10 turns warning
Whomp says:
if you or we say no then there's also a 10 turn warning from there
Chamnix says:
i think we agree....
Chamnix says:
mandatory 10 turns peace after republic, then peace unless someone gives 10 turns warning?
Whomp says:
the peace part is complex. lol
Whomp says:
i'll have daghie post
Drummer Boy says:
i think you have it there Cham...
Drummer Boy says:
after rep is in we have 10 turns of no declaring anything
Whomp says:
brb
Drummer Boy says:
after those 10 turns one side can declare that they will strike in 10 turns, but not before
Chamnix says:
got it
Drummer Boy says:
i think we agree there
Drummer Boy says:
that is the current deal as i read it

and ... idea to get Construction for us both ... (as per our original and declined proposal) ...
* these and other later suggestions were declined or not followed up ... also we learned later that KISS was negotiating with TNT
Chamnix says:
construction was covered - you would pay 50% of gold only if it cost us gold
Tubby Rower says:
what if you trade for techs straight up?
Chamnix says:
we would give it to you
Chamnix says:
it says we will provide const.
Chamnix says:
if we spend money for it, then you reimburse us
Tubby Rower says:
half
Chamnix says:
right


10th January ... after the Republic technology swap is completed
sixpackholiday: we're very pleased that the swap is now done ... and hope you are too
fe3333au: yep
fe3333au: and also the security of a lengthy period of peace


23rd January ... after the Construction deal ... either KISS or MIA could trade with TNT
bawhomp: but it seems we haven't been as good at trading as MIA
bawhomp: very shrewd move
fe3333au: we were very worried that it would happen to us
bawhomp: hmm...
bawhomp: well it changes things for sure

and ... KISS too were haggling with TNT
fe3333au: what were your dealings with TNT like?
bawhomp: we have none
fe3333au: were you not haggling for Construction ?!!
bawhomp: they sent back an email after you traded with them
fe3333au: must have been a fun read ... not
bawhomp: they said they were "constricted"
bawhomp: whatever that means

and ... again showing we want peace
fe3333au: you still open to wines for ivory?
bawhomp: i don't know...
bawhomp: we feel insecure right now
fe3333au: We have since things went hatwire ... about the trade offer upto you intention is there
bawhomp: the agreement was all techs
bawhomp: per agreement with UN


TNT was always a second choice as partner for us - we would much rather return to KISSMIA. Unfortunately, due to the perceived strain in KISSMIA, we were forced to agree not to provide you with techs traded with TNT as a caveat they placed on the deal, and we cannot break our word. We realize there will be strain caused by our being ahead in technology, but we hope there is a way to work around this – after millennia of friendship it would be awful to see our continent descend into the same type of destructive warfare that has plagued the Battle Isle.

As a team, we highly value our honor. Please understand that if we had believed that KISS expected the trade restrictions to still be in place, we would not have done anything that could be taken as us breaking our word. (refer to our polytheism deal – even though we didn't see things the same way, we honored what KISS understood to be MIA's promise.)

As the above correspondence examples indicate, it was very clear to us that KISS intended to leave the tech-trading restrictions part of our treaty behind – and so we didn't think twice about moving on also.


Regardless of how all the issues in our past happened – the bottom line is that you scared us immensely when you repeatedly signaled (in chats and official correspondence) your intention to abandon the treaty that has made both our empires rich and strong.

We panicked, and scrambled to find a new ally to save us from what we were certain was an impending attack.

Two things have changed since we responded to the KISS ultimatum was sent at short notice by Tubby Rower – We realized that your military build-up was not as great as we initially feared, and Whomp confessed to mis-communicating your intentions with us ... On this basis, we have found new reason to hope that perhaps it was not your intention to bring our mutual peace to a violent end.

We therefore offer a gift of Ivory for 20 turns as a sign of goodwill and as a simple starting place to get back on the road to peace.

We are certainly open to dialogue about where to go from there – but we desperately need you to respond within 24 hours to this olive branch.
On our next turn, we will be making some key decisions that will either put us on the path of peace, or on a course for war.
(rest assured, we will keep our word and give 10 turns notice before any violent action)

So please respond as soon as possible!


Feaurius III
Foreign Department MIA

As you can see, I offer Ivory for 20 turns ... NO GOLD ... helps KISS without overly effecting us.

 

[classical_hero]

Excellent letter. Can you add a / infront of the last quote or use the automatic quote link in either the quick reply or long reply box?

 

[fe3333au]

Fixed as you were writing

 

[Chamnix]

I would limit the chat quotes just to the relevant parts (and obviously keep the official correspondence of Januay 4) since most of those quotes are not that strong - including them actually weakens our argument. In particular, keep:

January 4:

We regard the deal for Republic a grand finale of the above mentioned partnership and, thus, an end of previous made agreements. We would like to maintain a friendly relationship, but also to make way for each team to stand on their own when they decide to.

January 6:

sixpackholiday: It means that we consider the previous deal ended ... and yes, with it all other arrangements

January 8:

Whomp says:
we both have fulfilled our part of the republic for techs deal
Whomp says:
as long as all techs are included. we are at tech parity
Whomp says:
the only remaining part to fulfill is the peace part of the agreement
Drummer Boy says:
what we said in the announcement, IIRC, is that we would like a clean sheet after the rep deal is done in a satisfactory way

Whomp says:
so after both of us receive techs our deal is complete
Whomp says:
except for the 10 turns of peace

I also don't like "your military build-up was not as great as we initially feared" - sounds a little insulting like you were pumping up military, but you couldn't even do that right. I still really don't like a deadline as we really don't need an answer immediately, and I think all that does is annoy people. And I don't like saying we will be making key decisions that could put us on a course for war - I don't think we want anything threatening in there.

Just my opinions as always.

Here is my doctoring attempt:

Dear Team KISS

We received a letter from Whomp and would like to address this. He certainly cannot blame himself for the communication breakdown. We were not relying solely on Chamnix’s chat with Whomp, Tubby and Daghie, but also previous chats and, most of all, your official correspondence signed by Team KISS. Perhaps you are right that techs should have been discussed in more detail in your chat with us, but Chamnix and the other KISSers present also neglected to bring it up. If there was miscommunication, no single individual or single team is to blame.

We felt (and still feel) strongly that KISS had ended the trading clauses of our agreement and left only the peace deal in place, and multiple correspondences led us to this conclusion. We do not see any other reasonable interpretation of your January 4 official correspondence. We are an honorable team and would never have acted as we did had we known that you did not have the same understanding.

Examples

January 4:

We regard the deal for Republic a grand finale of the above mentioned partnership and, thus, an end of previous made agreements. We would like to maintain a friendly relationship, but also to make way for each team to stand on their own when they decide to.

January 6:

sixpackholiday: It means that we consider the previous deal ended ... and yes, with it all other arrangements

January 8:

Whomp says:
we both have fulfilled our part of the republic for techs deal
Whomp says:
as long as all techs are included. we are at tech parity
Whomp says:
the only remaining part to fulfill is the peace part of the agreement
Drummer Boy says:
what we said in the announcement, IIRC, is that we would like a clean sheet after the rep deal is done in a satisfactory way

Whomp says:
so after both of us receive techs our deal is complete
Whomp says:
except for the 10 turns of peace

As the above correspondence examples indicate, it was very clear to us that KISS intended to leave the tech-trading restrictions part of our treaty behind - and so we didn't think twice about moving on also. We were not relying solely on Whomp's words, but chats with multiple members of KISS confirmed the meaning of your official correspondence.

TNT was always a second choice as partner for us - we would much rather return to KISSMIA. Unfortunately, due to the perceived strain in KISSMIA, we were forced to agree not to provide you with techs traded with TNT as a caveat they placed on the deal, and we cannot break our word. We realize there will be strain caused by our being ahead in technology, but we hope there is a way to work around this – after millennia of friendship it would be awful to see our continent descend into the same type of destructive warfare that has plagued the Battle Isle.

As a team, we highly value our honor. Please understand that if we had believed that KISS expected the trade restrictions to still be in place, we would not have done anything that could be taken as us breaking our word. (refer to our polytheism deal – even though we didn't see things the same way, we honored what KISS understood to be MIA's promise.)

Regardless of how all the issues in our past happened – the bottom line is that you scared us immensely when you repeatedly signaled (in chats and official correspondence) your intention to abandon the treaty that has made both our empires rich and strong.

We panicked, and scrambled to find a new ally to save us from what we were certain was an impending attack. However, since Whomp confessed to mis-communicating your intentions with us, we have found new reason to hope that perhaps it was not your intention to bring our mutual peace to a violent end.

We therefore offer a gift of Ivory for 20 turns as a sign of goodwill and as a simple starting place to get back on the road to peace.

Feaurius III
Foreign Department MIA

I guess my final issue is I'm not sure if an ivory gift accomplishes what we want - they may still feel unconstrained about attacking us. The AI doens't consider attacking someone who is giving you luxuries breaking your word, so KISS may not either. Also, we do not really offer a solution to the fact that we are far ahead in technology - I understand the reluctance to give gold, but I don't see how they can hope to catch up without it, and if we don't give them hope of catching up in tech, they may not see any choice besides war.

Question: is Drummer Boy = sixpackholiday?

 

[fe3333au]

Drummer Boy is sixpackholidy = Daghie

I like the tweek ... however I want to keep some more of the transcripts as I want to show that it was not only Whomp that was misleading.

Dear Team KISS

We received a letter from Whomp and would like to address this. He certainly cannot blame himself for the communication breakdown. We were not relying solely on Chamnix’s chat with Whomp, Tubby and Daghie, but also previous chats and, most of all, your official correspondence signed by Team KISS. Perhaps you are right that techs should have been discussed in more detail in your chat with us, but Chamnix and the other KISSers present also neglected to bring it up. If there was miscommunication, no single individual or single team is to blame.

We felt (and still feel) strongly that KISS had ended the trading clauses of our agreement and left only the peace deal in place, and multiple correspondences led us to this conclusion. We do not see any other reasonable interpretation of your January 4th official correspondence. We are an honorable team and would never have acted as we did had we known that you did not have the same understanding.


Examples

4th January ... the Rejection Letter which appeared soon after the Xmas Deal .. which we were about to agree to

We regard the deal for Republic a grand finale of the above mentioned partnership and, thus, an end of previous made agreements. We would like to maintain a friendly relationship, but also to make way for each team to stand on their own when they decide to. Therefore, the proposed agreement sent by MIA will not be signed by KISS.

6th January ... Alliance is over ... confusion with 10 turns of Warning

fe3333au: When you say after Republic trade we will just be friends ... how does that effect the 10 turns warning to being attacked ... I consider that still to be the case ... am I correct
sixpackholiday: It means that we consider the previous deal ended ... and yes, with it all other arrangements.

8th January ... MSM with Whomp, Daghie and Tubby

Chamnix says:
i believe daghda said that once the rep deal was consumated then our previous agreement was "null and void"?
Whomp says:
it expires with peace the way i read it
Chamnix says:
i don't understand
Whomp says:
we both have fulfilled our part of the republic for techs deal
Whomp says:
as long as all techs are included. we are at tech parity
Whomp says:
the only remaining part to fulfill is the peace part of the agreement
Drummer Boy says:
what we said in the announcement, IIRC, is that we would like a clean sheet after the rep deal is done in a satisfactory way
Chamnix says:
so you believe the peace deal is still in effect?
Whomp says:
if we are at tech parity
Chamnix says:
we thought Daghda meant you were cancelling the peace portion once republic was traded regardless of what techs were involved

<later>

Whomp says:
sorry i was clarifying the peace part of the deal
Whomp says:
needed to review again
Drummer Boy says:
everything is cool
Whomp says:
so after both of us receive techs our deal is complete
Whomp says:
except for the 10 turns of peace
Chamnix says:
so we are at peace unless 10 turns warning is given, and no warning has been given so far, correct?
Drummer Boy says:
correctemundo
Whomp says:
actually i think it was terminate the peace was 10 turns

<later>

Whomp says:
after republic and the techs are exchanged the deal is complete
Whomp says:
then we can either renegotiate peace or turn it off. there is 10 turns minimum of peace after the deal is done
Whomp is searching for:
there is also 10 turns warning
Whomp says:
if you or we say no then there's also a 10 turn warning from there
Chamnix says:
i think we agree....
Chamnix says:
mandatory 10 turns peace after republic, then peace unless someone gives 10 turns warning?
Whomp says:
the peace part is complex. lol
Whomp says:
i'll have daghie post
Drummer Boy says:
i think you have it there Cham...
Drummer Boy says:
after rep is in we have 10 turns of no declaring anything
Whomp says:
brb
Drummer Boy says:
after those 10 turns one side can declare that they will strike in 10 turns, but not before
Chamnix says:
got it
Drummer Boy says:
i think we agree there
Drummer Boy says:
that is the current deal as i read it

As the above correspondence examples indicate, it was very clear to us that KISS intended to leave the tech-trading restrictions part of our treaty behind - and so we didn't think twice about moving on also. We were not relying solely on Whomp's words, but chats with multiple members of KISS confirmed the meaning of your official correspondence.

TNT was always a second choice as partner for us - we would much rather return to KISSMIA. Unfortunately, due to the perceived strain in KISSMIA, we were forced to agree not to provide you with techs traded with TNT as a caveat they placed on the deal, and we cannot break our word. We realize there will be strain caused by our being ahead in technology, but we hope there is a way to work around this &#8211; after millennia of friendship it would be awful to see our continent descend into the same type of destructive warfare that has plagued the Battle Isle.

As a team, we highly value our honor. Please understand that if we had believed that KISS expected the trade restrictions to still be in place, we would not have done anything that could be taken as us breaking our word. (refer to our polytheism deal &#8211; even though we didn't see things the same way, we honored what KISS understood to be MIA's promise.)

Regardless of how all the issues in our past happened &#8211; the bottom line is that you scared us immensely when you repeatedly signaled (in chats and official correspondence) your intention to abandon the treaty that has made both our empires rich and strong.

We panicked, and scrambled to find a new ally to save us from what we were certain was an impending attack. However, since Whomp confessed to mis-communicating your intentions with us, we have found new reason to hope that perhaps it was not your intention to bring our mutual peace to a violent end.

We therefore offer a gift of Ivory for 20 turns as a sign of goodwill and as a simple starting place to get back on the road to peace.


Feaurius III
Foreign Department MIA