korn's Blitz Mod

[korn469]

Desert Fox

you cross posted with me this morning, and i didn't have time to respond

anyways to address your points

When playing on a hugh world the extra shields for settler & colonists do not work. The high cost of science was a problem too. I quit a game 1950 AD where I still had not finished filling in my land and no prospect of ever reaching the space age. It was not my playing style that did it

i haven't done enough testing on huge maps to say how they will effect things one way or the other, however let me give you a strategy to try

__________________

huge map strategy

first make sure all 16 civs are in the game, and then choose russians or english as your civ, set barbarians to one of the two lowest settings, pangea or large continant are a good map to play on

research as quickly as possible and head straight for republic, (do not research any tech not required for republic) you will fall behind in the tech game but, not too worry, if you can discover republic first you will leap frog out ahead

build lots of scouts and use them to explore aggressively, the more civs you discover the better, trade techs and tech whore as much as possible, expand as much as possible

when you make trade, the most important thing you want to trade for is communications, the more communications you get the better off you will be

once you discover republic first, tech whore and that should bump you up to the middle ages and first in tech, tech whore monothesism, once you get this lead you shouldn't have to worry about the rest of the game

Corruption was actually higher then in any other game I have played. Only 3 cities away from my capital and the corruption was so bad that it took 50-60 turns for the common improvements.

unless this is a bug or an undocumented feature in 1.17f, corruption should certainly not be worse, the corruption in the blitz mod is slightly less than in 1.17f and there are more ways to control it, besides building a courthouse, newspaper, and police station try and keep your citizens in a we love day to further lower corruption

Maybe on smaller worlds this is not an issue.

corruption is still there, but it's managable, and it is not worse as normal civ3

slight changes to combat corruption and make it easier to build settlers & colonists

my setting are anti-ICS, that means that with both settlers and colonists, population and not shields are the limiting factor for producing them, a city can generate roughly 20 shields by the time it grows from size 1 to size 2 (1 pop settler civ2), it can roughly generate 50 shields by the time it grows from size 1 to size 3 (2 pop settler civ3), and it can generate roughly 80 shields by the time it grows from size 1 to size 4 (3 pop settler blitz mod)

as long as population is the limiting factor (civ3 and the blitz mod) ICS doesn't exist, but when shields are the limiting factor like in civ2 then ICS is possible

what all of this means is that if you lower the cost of a settler to 10 shields without lowering the population cost, expansion won't be any faster it just makes expansion and obvious instead of an interesting choice, but one of the principle aspects of the blitz mod is to slow expansion so that is why settlers cost 3 pop

anyways i hope those comments helped some, i'm working on beta7.1 right now

 

[Desert Fox]

Hey dude.. I understand somewhat you are trying to do. But leaving the settlers & colonists at the cost now is just not practical on hugh worlds. I know how to play the game thanks for the tutor
I play with my own piece of land everytime I play. I am wierd but that is me. I want my empire to be shared with no one until later on conquest or islands etc. I usually make 200x200 plus maps. With corruption being such a problem with or without your mod at one end of my land it was taking 20-60 turns for a size 8 & 10 city to produce a colonist. Settlers were taking about 20-30 turns. If it means adjusting the population or whatever I think you should do it. Your are taming down the AI from producing them at a madden rate but in the process I think it ruins large scale games.

Corruption is needed to a degree or the game will be too easy. The corruption needs to be tweaked (Newspaper does not affect corruption by the way nor does it provide research in your present mod at least)

I am using your mod as a base to make a version that I feel works on hugh worlds. You check it out use it if you want. I have no clue how to even upload a mod anyways.

That is the bottom line though, degrease slightly on your cost of those settlers & colonists, tweak the corruption a little, and the barbarians are relentless even at restless tribes setting. Normally I handle them but with a large world that is not completely settled until the 1400-1500 AD. I had over 100 barbarians horde up on me almost took 2 cities with 3 pikemen in each city.

Desert Fox

 

[Desert Fox]

Originally posted by korn469
Desert Fox

you cross posted with me this morning, and i didn't have time to respond

anyways to address your points



i haven't done enough testing on huge maps to say how they will effect things one way or the other, however let me give you a strategy to try

__________________

huge map strategy

first make sure all 16 civs are in the game, and then choose russians or english as your civ, set barbarians to one of the two lowest settings, pangea or large continant are a good map to play on

I would never play with more then 8 civs anyone that does is a total addict. Even on my fast PC each turn later in the game takes 2-5 minutes to excute. I quit not even in the Industrial ages. You have to be a gaming animal to play with that many civs! I think they should optimize the game to play faster or only have 8 civs.
I like Islands or long pieces of land. I am a empire builder perfer not to battle unless I have to. Seems though in civ 3 if you are peaceful your score is low

Desert Fox

 

[korn469]

_____________________

beta7.1

Fixes

*correctly set captured units to workers
*correctly set police stations to require a courthouse
*fixed fascism so that it requires upkeep and gives a trade bonus
*research labs no longer cause pollution

Map size Changes

*reset number of civs back to their original civ3 value (4/6/8/12/16)
*changed optimal number of cities to the following 12/16/20/28/36
*changed tech rate to the following 75/115/150/215/280

Balance Changes

*changed each drafted citizen to have a hurry penalty of 30 turns
*changed chariots and war chariots cost to 10
*changed pikemen to 2.3.1
*changed longbowmen to 5.1.1 40 no resources
*Fighter 5.5.2 12[4]6 100 (blitz) {F-15} oil, rubber
*Bomber 0.2.2 10[8]8 120 (blitz) oil, rubber
*Jet Fighter 15.15.3 15[5]8 150 (blitz, radar) oil, aluminum
*F-15 18.18.3 15[5]8 150 (blitz, radar, precision strike) {Jet Fighter} oil, aluminum
*Stealth Fighter 0.6.3 18[4]8 (blitz, radar, stealth) oil, aluminum, uranium
*Stealth Bomber 0.3.3 20[8]8 300 (blitz, radar, stealth) oil, aluminum, uranium
*Carriers can now only carry fighters, jet fighters, and F-15s (set carriers to transport foot soldiers only, and all of the fighters set to foot soldiers)

Espionage Changes

*Build an Embassy cost 15
*Investigate City cost 5
*Steal Technology cost 8
*Steal World Map cost 1
*Plant Spy cost 45
*Steal Plans cost 5
*Initiate Propaganda cost 65
*Sabotage Production cost 8
*Expose Enemy Mole cost 60

Building Changes

colosseum 120/2/2
library 80/1/1
forum 80/3/1
theater 160/6/2
museum 240/9/4
courthouse 60/0/1 corruption effect
newspaper 120/0/2 corruption effect, resistant to propaganda
police station 180/0/2 corruption effect, reduces war weariness
research lab 240/0/4

Changes to Civs

Egypt: Industrious, Religious
Government Preference: Communism, NONE
2 AG
Workers, Growth, Production, Happiness, Culture

Babylon: Scientific, Religious
Government Preference: Democracy, Communism
2 AG
Growth, Production, Happiness, Science, Culture

Russia: Expansionistic, Scientific
Government Preference: Communism, NONE
4 AG
Naval, Growth, Production, Science, Explore, Culture

China: Militaristic, Industrious
Government Preference: Communism, Democracy
5 AG
Offensive, Workers, Naval, Air, Growth, Production

America: Industrious, Expansionistic
Government Preference: Democracy, Fascism
4 AG
Workers, Naval, Air, Growth, Production, Explore

France: Industrious, Commercial
Government Preference: Democracy, Anarchy
2 AG
Workers, Growth, Production, Wealth, Trade

Persia: Industrious, Scientific
Government Preference: Democracy, None
3 AG
Workers, Growth, Production, Science, Culture

Zulu: Militaristic, Expansionistic
Government Preference: Communism, Democracy
5 AG
Offensive, Naval, Air, Growth, Explore

Iroquois: Expansionistic, Religious
Government Preference: Democracy, Fascism
3 AG
Naval, Growth, Happiness, Explore, Culture

English: Expansionistic, Commercial
Government Preference: Democracy, Communism
3 AG
Workers, Naval, Growth, Production, Wealth, Trade

Changes to resources

*all disappearance rates set to 900
_____________________


i'll update the readme soon, but anyways the file is up, the civilopedia.txt file is beta7.1 but it's not finished yet

 

[roalan]

i ASK AGAIN WHY CAN YOU NOT PUT THE MODCIV3.BIC FILE IN THE SCENARIO FOLDER INSTEAD OF THE MAIL DIRECTORY?

 

[korn469]

roalan

a couple reasons

1) i haven't ever tried to do it like that, so i'm not sure if it would work properly, but i will look into this and find a guide to make sure i can set it up and have it work properly like that

2) because you are the first person to ask me to do it like that, and it was on short notice

basically this was a small update, most of the work went into the civilopedia instead of the actual bic, so instead of changing everthing around for an update i left it like it was

but just because i haven't changed it yet doesn't mean i won't...i will see how setting it up as a scenario works and for beta8 i will do it like that if it works

cool?

 

[Desert Fox]

I noticed when editing your mod that you made a mistake for the Port Facility. It should give Veteran Sea Units you had Ground Units.


Desert Fox

 

[rubixd]

that is a lot of things!!Nice

 

[korn469]

Desert Fox

hey thanks for catching that! already fixed it and posted beta7.2

btw did you happen to have a barracks and a port in the same city? if you did were the ground units you built veteran or elite? just curious

rubixd

glad you like it

 

[roalan]

I did place version 1.13 in the scenario folder and it works fine.yoir instruction mention to load from the scenario folder. So if I put 1.18 in the folder do you think it will overwrite the original mod?

 

[Astaroth]

Sorry if it's a stupid question, but what are the disadvantages of Fascism? It looks like it has no war wariness, it has free unit support and trade bonus. It seems it has all the advantages of the other government types and I didnt see any disadvantage, bt I'm sure there are some, can someone point them out, please?

cheers

 

[korn469]

Astaroth

it has a slower worker rate than communism or democracy
it uses forced labor instead of paid
its units cost 3 upkeep instead of two, so while for mid size armies they have the best support, for huge armies either democracy of communism has the best support
it has a higher corruption rate than democracy
and it has the highest resistant rate (that is the number of people who will be resistors when you capture a city)
and fascism also has a zero assimilation rate, compared to 3 for communism and 4 for democracy

 

[roalan]

I placed world map 1.8 in the scenario folder and it did NOT overwrite 1.13. I assume I should be able just to load it when I want to use it?or make any changes I wish as I did with your very nice 1.13 map and rules.

 

[korn469]

roalan

I placed world map 1.8 in the scenario folder and it did NOT overwrite 1.13.

are we talking about the same mod?
i have had a v1.06beta6, and now a v1.06beta7, beta7.1, and the current version is beta7.2

i have yet to have any version i numbered v1.08 or v1.13

however if by placing the civ3mod.bic into the scenario files if it worked then i will do that from now on, can you still play random maps? do the new units work ok? is the civilopedia up to date?

if so that is the path i will pursue from now on, but i don't understand your comments about the version, that has confused me somewhat

 

[roalan]

Korn469. I think I just came back form the moon? I was talking about Marlas Map-Mods. and did not realize you were talking about your Mods. Sorry.

 

[korn469]

roalan

oh ok, that clears up alot of thing
so are you able to use marla's map and my mod together?
that would be really awsome if you could

 

[roalan]

Interesting. I will let you know if it works out when I try it.

 

[Desert Fox]

Hey Korn, unless I am nuts when I build the outrigger the build queue shows stealth bomber. I looked at pedicons I see nothing wrong but then again, I am not sure what to look for. Is the placement of reference file have anything to do with it? I notice all your additions are at the bottom
Thanks for the great mod Firaxis should pick yours for their site. Looking forward to when you add new graphics for your new units.

Desert Fox

 

[Desert Fox]

Hey Korn,
I am tinkering (Blitz mod) with the Wonders making them having a better payoff at the same time making them cost much more to build. Civ2 had Wonders that gave walls etc. I find I miss some of them in civ3. I made some of the wonders provide certain improvements, like Universal S. will put Police Stations in all cities when built to combat corruption for middle to late games on large & hugh worlds. I increased the cost to build big time to make it a true sacrifice for any civ to build. I only increased culture by one the big gain is the imrpovements and in some cases I lowered the culture for the item being placed in each city. I changed 6 wonders in all.

Just curious if anyone thought this was a good idea? It seems to slow down the whole game at least how I play.

Desert Fox

 

[korn469]

Desert Fox

Civ2 had Wonders that gave walls etc

ahh yes the infamous "you get building X in every city when you build this wonder"

i do agree that they are powerful, but in general i prefer not to have wonders that function in this way, just because it is a very cheap way of playing the game

take universal sufferage for example

on a huge (what's up the hugh spelling?) world it is quite easy to have 15 cities, and the police station costs 180 shields for each one so unless you raise the cost of UnSuf to at least 1300 shields then it saves the player alot of shields and alot of upkeep costs, and yet it doesn't add any special abilities that make having a wonder present unique oppertunities to the player

just considering interesting options that wonders present to the player i think some of the most interesting wonders are the great light house, the great library, and battlefield medicine, i like interesting wonders compared to boring wonders

that is the case against them, though i don't think one or two of them are too bad, plus its your game so feel free to mod it to it suits your playing preference

basically the pros are ease of play and the cons are balance and interest, just take those things into consideration

about the stealth bomber i've noticed this as well and i will try to fix it

anyways here is a game follow up i posted on apolyton

_____________________________

ok i was playing around, and while barbarians certainly were strong they weren't insurmountable, however in my first game it was me(america) and the aztecs all alone on a continant to ourselves, the continant was roughly just a straight line the me at the bottom and the aztecs at the top

the map size was either small or standard i don't remember completely, but i think it was small

my start location was a dream, by moving one space over i had 4 wheat tiles in my city radius, and there incense close by

however to my left where the incense was happened to be all desert and above me was all jungle

there was also only two huts but they were both good, i got ceremonial burial and a settler, and the place i happened tofound the city with my settler was amazing it held both horses and iron, though i didn't know this at the time

anyways after fighting with some barbarians in the jungles which wasn't too bad because of scout, the Aztecs filled up the top part of the continant and i filled up the jungle part at a slower rate, without the industrious bonus and all of the extra food, even accomplishing this would have been impossible, our continant was isolated while the other civs had contact with each other

i rushed straight for monarchy however the aztecs were quite uncooperative trading partners and both of our research was going especially slow

around 1200 AD me and the aztecs were both in monarchy had filled the continant, both of us had bronze working and i had just traded for iron working from them, we had tech parity, and both of us had alphabet and writing, and i was working on map making...however because i didn't have construction my cities were stuck at size 6, and i had just discovered that i had iron in addition to horses in that upper city

i had time to build two or three swordsmen and i had about three of four horsemen and some various archers and spearmen when the aztes declared war on me
i had 8 cities and the aztecs had more than that though i'm not exactly sure how many the aztecs had, this meant i had 16 free unit support, and each additional unit cost 2 gold in support
so as the war started the aztec had a huge numbers advantage, and then since i didn't prepare properly for the war, the aztecs pillage the road to my iron and my horses and then not too long after that took the city leaving a small area of jungle seperating us

as the war dragged on i had to basically put everything into taxes to support the size of my ever growing archer/spearman force, and while i was able to keep to horsemen alive along with a swordsman and get them all to elite, it just wasn't enough

i had a size 4 border city that i had hurried barracks and walls, and it had my swordsman, two spearmen and two archers in it, the only thing was this city was slightly offset so it didn't force the aztecs to go through it while they hammered it, they also bypassed itand killed all but one defender (including one of my elite horsemen i was using as a reserve) in my second tier city

suddenly there were a large force of archers, swordsmen, andjag warriors getting ready to seize a six 6 city that had four dyes in its city radius, and after that it was an open path to the heart of my empire, support cost were already wearing my civ down and we just got news that the germans had finished copernicus's observatory at the beginning of the war, and when i finally sued for peace, with a very small treasury the aztecs demand my walled border city, and i gave it up

i got worse news, the french had just completed magellens expedition, like a turn before i discovered map making

the aztecs had a healthy treasury around 400 gold, while i maybe had 30 gold in mine, the aztecs had also heavily garrisoned my two captured cities and when i checked diplomacy, after i discovered map making, much to my horror, the aztecs only had 1 gold, but they then had communications with all of the other civs and every single tech i was able to research

they had made contact, and i still hadn't even seen another civ, but even if i did i wouldn't had the money to catch up in techs with them, for all i know they may had of entered the modern era by then...i'm not sure exactly how many techs the aztecs had bought but they were in the middle ages, and still furious at me

so i went ahead and retired before aztec middle age units over ran me, also the cost of stealing tech was still outrageously high

and the aztecs even had a better culture than i did

anyways some random thoughts

tech trading is out of hand! while i think the tech rates are too high because one civ along can't research the tech, tech trading means that isolated civs will die, and civs that aren't making money to trade will die, and the human which gets the worse end of the bargin will have a hard time

i'm not sure on the mod side what to do about it, I had a fairly well played game, but the AI still beat me and tech whoring figures into that equation, the only thing is, if i lower the tech rate (which i am going to do but not by too much) the AI simply trades fater

in my other game, (which i am going to resume) i basically got tired and put all of my cities under govenor control and automated all of my units and then traded techs, and around 600ad i was the tech laggard again, but i still had many of the industrial age techs though the price for industrialization and replacable parts was too much because the AI simply wouldn't trade with me, so by 1000ad the AI would have probably research every tech in the game, and this is on a standard sized map with 8 civs total, one of them being eliminated

i would like to see a roughly historical tech rate, but with the way the AI tech whores, if the tech rate is set high enough to cause this then any isolated civs won't get out of the ancient era before the game ends, and if it is set low enough so isolation wouldn't completely kill you the AI will have researched space flight by 1ad

i'm still trying to figure this one out