We'll have plenty of worker turns left to road after improving the sheep. It's more important to get the improvements down than to 'save future worker movement turns'. The math has been done already and it's been tried and tested. The exception is of course if you can make 1 turn in a road without delaying the improvement.
I was in a hurry when I read it earlier and didn't realise the Kossin now agreed to settle SE . It's bloody obvious why he'd propose moving the worker to the sheep .
Must try and take my time reading future posts so that I don't make a fool of myself.
btw, by moving i meant SE, no extra cities can be found on the that small area however
in the beginning 6 cities goal is not as important as having good production in always war setting. Tech rate will be quite slow for everyone.
The capital will be great Moai city and you can even fit heroic epic there if you can find better options.
Played the round... some good news some bad but overall good I would say.
I don't have a turn-by-turn report as so many sets don't have anything to show for themselves - mostly pics and comments.
Settled SE as shown above, worker first and send the warrior north as planned.
Turn 5, pop a hut for some gold
Spoiler:
We meet the first peaceful neighbor, Wang Kon.
Spoiler:
A few turns later, Boudica's scout shows up, but if you look closely, you can see Shaka's borders. In consequence, I start sending the warrior North to see what we're dealing with.
Spoiler:
After discovering AH, I can't see any horses anywhere so I start on Archery given the proximity of Shaka.
While moving, we are met by the next Peace AI, Sitting Bull, another Protective AI. He's also at war with Wang Kon.
Spoiler:
I find a grassland farm so I move onto it... Shaka doesn't send an Archer so I pillage it. We don't get any gold sadly.
Spoiler:
I move onto the forested plains to get a view of Shaka's land. Given that there is a river going through, the total defense modifier is 100% -> 4vs3 so Shaka won't attack any soon. Moreover, in 5 turns we'll get an additional 25% from fortifying.
Spoiler:
Archery completes on turn 24 and I stop the round.
Spoiler:
A view of Uruk. The worker has just made his way to the sheep this turn.
Spoiler:
I queued an Archer so we can properly choke Shaka for a while. Our second warrior is also heading to that forested hill across a river to make sure he doesn't get too fancy.
Once we get an archer there, we can send 1 warrior away to scout some more. We will need more than just 1 archer to hold him back though - this is Aggressive AI and quasi-AW setting!
4 are invested in a barracks. It will not decay for a while. If you have BULL, you can tell when it does start to decay and finish it then.
Techs... I highlighted a few to show the research time.
Spoiler:
I've queued Fishing for now but Mining>BW might be better. If we find copper, I'm for skipping GLH, otherwise we'll need a way to tech our way through Construction/HBR.
Foreign Advisor to see war status
Spoiler:
The known land so far...
Spoiler:
If we can choke Shaka properly, this could turn out to be not that hard of a game. Otherwise, I only see Elephants right now available to us.
Next city will go close to the wheat obviously and focus on production from the hills.
I think we'll need BW sooner rather than later.
Rants? Comments? Ideas? Back to test tech paths I guess.
1. kossin - Just played 2. mfie - UP!
3. Stochastic - On deck
4. mjg5591
5. cripp7
6. Meerk
7. The Simple Mind
I don't think we need to rounds right now, making the right decision is more important right now.
Ok... played a bit around with another test game... my conclusion:
Fishing is too early right now, we don't have the hammers for wb nor the beakers for the tech right now.
Mining>BW is definitely the way to go for maybe copper and production.
If we get copper, Shaka is toast.
Build order:
Uruk: Archer>Archer>Settler>Warrior for garrison in Uruk>[???Barracks>Archer???]
Eridu: Start with an Archer, worker at size 2 I guess.
New city goes SE of the wheat, it'll be an instant boost to our economy and production. The worker should road in that direction but first:
Worker finishes pasture (4)
Worker moves NE and builds road for one (1) turn then cancels.
Worker move N of Uruk. Road towards wheat (make sure the worker moves on the wheat the same turn Eridu is founded.
If you find a way to make Fishing next worthwhile, please post it as I simply couldn't.
I looked at the save and some thoughts:
1) We should consider the fact that Shaka is so close a gift
2) We have place for 4 more cities if we block shaka of here:
Spoiler:
It looks like a hill if you look closely. (You can't see it on the screenshot, look in the save instead)
I think that we should build a settler after this archer and then send them both to that spot. Shaka won't build up a stack this soon so'll be able to hold (we can put that warrior there as well) until we build one (or two) more archer.
After the archer if we time it well we'll have size 3 and working pig+sheep for fast settler.
I think getting the settler fast is important because there are almost no other hills expect that one, so if Shaka gets it our city that will get all the attacks won't be on a hill .
3) I think we should send the warrior next to Shakas capital to that spot to see if it is really a hill. then send him back to Shaka to slow his growth (keeping that worker bussy running away ).
4) The other warrior can be used to check out that little piece of land West we haven't yet explored and then North to scout the terrain out.
5) If we go this way fishing fast isn't really that important so we can maybe go mining -> Bronze Working instead to see if we've bronze and be able to chop+whip.
Any thoughts about this?
EDIT: Kossin's way isn't bad either. it's probably a more safe way
The idea about choking Shaka is that he doesn't get anymore city than Ulundi
It's cheap but it works and we've teched towards Archery for that reason. It could be a very difficult game if we let him expand.
That looks like a nice spot to settle on mfie, we'll have to check it out.
I prefer 2 archers out as it might allow us to pillage a few more things/prevent him making a settler. There are also other AIs and barbs we have to consider of course...
Yes, but I think with 2 warriors and 1 archer we can hold out, the settler will only take 10 turns or so after all . And I fear Shaka may steal the spot.
From previous choking experiences, AIs tend to sit in their capital with their settlers for a loooong time before going out. They don't move before they have enough archers to defend both the settler and the Capital.
We can nab that city with out 2nd or even 3rd settler most likely.
From previous choking experiences, AIs tend to sit in their capital with their settlers for a loooong time before going out. They don't move before they have enough archers to defend both the settler and the Capital.
We can nab that city with out 2nd or even 3rd settler most likely.
Well if they don't go out the capital why is that second archer needed
I think if we send an archer with the settler, then build another in the capital, settle him there. And build one in second city. We'll be fine.
Production decay: 50 turns for buildings, 10 turns for units
Meaning we can build a lot of things before turn 74 when the barracks will start to decay.
EDIT: Here's an example of a choke. The capital isn't as good as Shaka's current one but with 2 archers you can see how long Shaka actually waits before moving anything with 2 archers parked next to the city...
Wow, I didn't realise how effective a choke could be!
So I think the two archers should take 13 turns, then the settler should come online about when bronze working gets discovered, but it won't have an escort, maybe one of the warriors can peel off a bit before the settler is done?
Is the idea that we don't actually attack Shaka with archers but wait to get axe (hopefully) reinforcement?
Wow, I didn't realise how effective a choke could be!
So I think the two archers should take 13 turns, then the settler should come online about when bronze working gets discovered, but it won't have an escort, maybe one of the warriors can peel off a bit before the settler is done?
Is the idea that we don't actually attack Shaka with archers but wait to get axe (hopefully) reinforcement?
From my tests, the second archer should be completed as Uruk turns to size 4, just in time to start on the settler.
The new city will likely have enough time to build its own archer before barbs become an issue. We won't likely see any AI archers since they only scout with Scouts this early
If we settle 1S of the wheat, the city can even borrow the pig from Uruk later on to grow/whip. It's also a fast connect and increases our total by 3 and adds a good deal of production.
Regarding actually taking Ulundi: It could be done with Vultures, but we'd need him to move some archers/suicide them as otherwise it will be too costly. Never mind actually having copper available to us
Most likely it'll have to wait until Construction.
Yes, I got the same, with bronzworking in 3 turns after the settler is obtained. But the real game will tech faster because of discounts for knowing people. Also, I calculate a net +1 after extra maintenance is included.
I like mfie's suggestion to block off some land. If by choking Ulundi we can settle this land at our leisure then settling south of the wheat first would probably be more beneficial.
Yea, we should be able to settle it at our leisure.
The choke I showed was made using the TEST2 game but moving Shaka at +\- the same distance he is from our Capital. I actually kept hitting Enter before he killed both Archers = Turn 103.
I think that'll be plenty enough time to settle in that vicinity. Moreover, I would think we'll add an Archer or 2 on the choke to give us even more time... No point letting go once we've got him by the throat.
Edit: We should remove Shaka from the EP assignment since they're most likely going to be wasted here. Maybe put them on WK or Boudi?
Sorry RL has been busy. Nice round Kossin. Even seeing the fish I think 1SE was good. Maybe can use that fish if another island close down south.
I also agree choking Shaka, think it's nice to have the most warmonger we are at war with the closest.
EP should go to closest peaceful neighbor I think. Easier for us to steal techs later.
I also agree with min>BW then prolly onto fishing. I like 1SE of the wheat for second city. Gives us the extra hill for production. Unless your settling the hill 1S for defense purposes.
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. It's bloody obvious why he'd propose moving the worker to the sheep 
.
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are invested in a barracks. It will not decay for a while. If you have BULL, you can tell when it does start to decay and finish it then.
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. And I fear Shaka may steal the spot.
by 3 and adds a good deal of production.