If I look good its 2 votes for SE of the wheat (mjg5591 and Stochastic),
and two votes for the hill to block of land (mfie, The simple mind)
I don't know whats your vote Kossin and meerk and cripp 7 haven't voted yet.
btw: This is the place where I want to block of Shaka: (it's on a hill)
t7 mining in, bronze working next
Archer is finished, i send him to shakas territory.
Spoiler:
t11 Second archer ready (I settle him to be police and protect capital + escort for settler) and city grows to 4, I start a settler
Spoiler:
t13 nice random event
Spoiler:
Nice: We've +4 with korea due to mutal struggle
Spoiler:
t15 Shaka already has 4 archers :O
Our archer is 2 turns from him
Spoiler:
Scouting warrior kills a lion
Bronze working in
Spoiler:
We've bronze very close + because of the border expansion from the capital we see a nice island to our west with clam. And I've lokated Wankong. Normally I would suggest settling bronze city, but since Shaka isn't going to send out a settler so soon, Wankong may block us, and because we can't declare war on him that would be very bad.
Spoiler:
The worker has improved the sheep and built a road (he couldn't do much else since we hadn't bronze working). He's now on the hill east of the capital.
The diplomatic situation:
Spoiler:
It looks like Wang Kong is our ally (he's at with Shaka, so if we cripple Shaka too much, Wang Kong will be able to expand over shakas empire)
Saladin is wat war with Shaka, so before he gets to us he has to go throug Shaka, so we don't really have to fear him
WK's location certainly adds more weight to settling the rice+cow+ele site first. Though now we have to consider whether we settle on the hill for defense (1 off the coast) or 1W for extra trade + 1 hill + extra ele + possible seafood. If we are considering building either GLH or Colossus then I'd opt for 1W.
No settling 1 of the coast. I'll look at the save and edit in my thoughts.
EDIT:
Oh my god, I can't believe you haven't even mentioned BW revealed Copper!!!
I think it's clear what needs to be done: settle 2E of the wheat
Critique:
-scrap GLH, we don't need it with Copper Edit2: I see you named it 'Bronze' sorry
-the worker should have been roading towards the new city site, we're wasting commerce by having him stand where he is now - divert immediately to finish the road (we'll want to improve copper soon).
-Why is the archer sitting in Uruk and not out harassing Shaka?
-We'll likely want another worker next
-Switch to slavery needs to be decided for timing... I'll run a few tests to get a better idea
-Fishing>???Pottery>Writing???
-Why oh why the road from the sheep to Uruk? What does that achieve now?
Sorry I have been unable to comment much for the last couple of days.
Looks like a good set!
I had not seen the choking strategy before. It is remarkably effective.
The discovery of the bronze is great news. I like our chances to prevent Shaka from ever getting another city, should we choose to do that.
It feels like we broadly have two plans. First is to aggressively block territory as Mfie has outlined. This approach seems to be geared towards allowing Shaka to escape the choke a few turns down the line, and we move in for the kill after we have filled out our blocked-off territory.
The other approach is to expand more locally, get bronze sooner, and use vultures to prevent Shaka from expanding at all prior to our killing him.
I suppose there are middle grounds as well. For example, we could put the settler where mfie suggests, and expand to a third site somewhat more slowly while reinforcing the choke enough to contain Shaka. If this plan works, it seems appealing -- we get the best of both worlds. But it feels very aggressive to me. If Shaka chooses to break the choke early, he will have much more military than we can have until we get the bronze mined. And our defensive resources will be spread thin.
Still, the fundamental question is "what do we do with our first settler?" And there does not seem to be a middle ground about that. Clearly we should come to an agreement about where to put the settler before the next set.
Given all that, I think my inclination is to settle nearer the bronze soon, and play a plan that keeps our military strong while we keep Shaka contained. The risk is obviously that we lose out on territory to our friendly neighbors. However, I believe/hope that they have troubles of their own. After all, WK has a neighbor to the north, and probably one to the NE. It's likely that he is at war with one of those.
Maybe it just comes down to the question of how much the AI will devote to fighting vs expanding when confronted with an enemy in the early game. I don't have a good feel for this. Do others?
Okay... nevermind some of the stuff I posted before, I've checked things out a bit and it's much better than what I initially thought - great set in fact.
Still, I don't like the road from the sheep to Uruk and the sitting archer in Uruk. Both are useless right now.
What I initially forgot: culture connects network over coast tiles so we don't need a road for the extra 2E from the wheat.
Proposed plan:
Worker starts mine on plains hill archer moves out to 2E of wheat. Hit skip turn on wounded warrior to heal then scout around the gold.
Once settler completes, start 2nd worker in Uruk, send settler to 2E of wheat.
When settler arrives 1 turn from settling (that is moving 1SE of wheat with no movement left) revolt to slavery.
Settle next turn ->start archer.
Alternative A:
Researches Fishing>Pottery>Writing
Cancel mine in Uruk (or we lose the chop - build a road for 1 turn next instead)
Next turn whip worker in Uruk -> Overflow in workboat (for fish)
Following turn finish mine ->overflow in Archer
This gives us a bit more immediate commerce
Alternative B:
Skips fishing -> Pottery>Writing
Overflow mine in worker
both workers go directly to improve the wheat - NO ROADS
Start settler next ->whip for maximum hammers and dump in Granary
Settler goes to block off land and takes Eridu's Archer for protection (send him ahead)
This gives more potential commerce as we get Libraries a wee-bit sooner.
I think I like skipping Fishing here. I've made a dotmap to show where I'd like to settle. We need to seal off some land from WK and then some south of Shaka. After that we can backfill as we wish.
Settling order:
1.Wheat/copper
2.Rice/cows (Creative will let us steal cows in no time since they'll be in our first ring - also don't have to worry about a DoW there )
3.Bananas/Sugar.
The rest doesn't matter that much although it would be certainly nice to know if there's any food close to that gold.
Ulundi looks like it has a lot of riverside tiles, it'd make a good Bureaucracy capital if we can keep pillagers away.
I suppose there are middle grounds as well. For example, we could put the settler where mfie suggests, and expand to a third site somewhat more slowly while reinforcing the choke enough to contain Shaka.
Good news about the copper! I suppose Im up next, but I wont play until tomorrow to give some time for more debate.
RE: settlement sites
Because we are stuck in always war/peace, Im almost tempted to settle the cow/rice site first and then go for the copper. My reasoning is that I dont think the copper site will be that much better in terms of production early on when we want to grow and whip.
To me the main advantage of the copper/wheat is the trade route that will balance out the extra maintenance and the reduced worker turns spent walking. I guess Im not sure how fast Wang will settle in these conditions, but it would really suck if he did settle one more towards us.
Techs:
Im torn between fishing and pottery next. On the one hand I think fishing will help get lots of food for whipping in our capital and a bit of extra commerce on the side. On the other hand, granaries will be slower and the hammers towards the boat will come out of our ground power.
Builds/moves:
Depends on the tech path obviously, but certainly for the first few turns Id say send archer in Uruk to settlement site (wherever that is), finish settler, revolt to slavery, build archer.
Then either workboat or worker.
So I think we need a decision on the tech path. I think fishing before pottery, the extra commerce from the fish will better than early cottages, and I dont think we would be in a position to build granaries in the 9 turns until pottery comes in.
About the archer : I left him in the city to not get an unhappy face for 'we demend military protection' + to have an escort for the settler.
About the road, the only thing the worker could do was roading and because I didn't know where we would settle (although I'm still for the rice-cow first because I fear we might get blocked off by Wang Kong ). SO idecided to road our resources, it might come in handy
Good news about the copper! I suppose Im up next, but I wont play until tomorrow to give some time for more debate.
RE: settlement sites
Because we are stuck in always war/peace, Im almost tempted to settle the cow/rice site first and then go for the copper. My reasoning is that I dont think the copper site will be that much better in terms of production early on when we want to grow and whip.
To me the main advantage of the copper/wheat is the trade route that will balance out the extra maintenance and the reduced worker turns spent walking. I guess Im not sure how fast Wang will settle in these conditions, but it would really suck if he did settle one more towards us.
Wait, we need to argue some more I feel
Yes it would suck, but so would letting Shaka escape without having Vultures nearby.
Settling so far will cost at least 1 more gold and we won't get the extra , no copper, and no production capacity for a long time. All things that can be done quickly with the second city while Uruk focuses on getting out another Settler.
I'd like a Vulture running around Shaka's Capital ASAP to pillage and kill stray archers.
The quickier we get Copper, the quickier Shaka dies = a much more better city than rice-cow.
Techs:
Im torn between fishing and pottery next. On the one hand I think fishing will help get lots of food for whipping in our capital and a bit of extra commerce on the side. On the other hand, granaries will be slower and the hammers towards the boat will come out of our ground power.
The idea behind delaying Fishing is to allow another settler out faster. This one should in theory get the rice-cow site before WK gets another settler in that region... it's all jungle below anyway.
Builds/moves:
Depends on the tech path obviously, but certainly for the first few turns Id say send archer in Uruk to settlement site (wherever that is), finish settler, revolt to slavery, build archer.
Then either workboat or worker.
So I think we need a decision on the tech path. I think fishing before pottery, the extra commerce from the fish will better than early cottages, and I dont think we would be in a position to build granaries in the 9 turns until pottery comes in.
Pottery isn't for cottages. Granaries and to tech Writing. Cottages aren't coming anytime soon. With creative, we can whip a library easily and run scientists for much better research.
About the archer : I left him in the city to not get an unhappy face for 'we demend military protection' + to have an escort for the settler.
About the road, the only thing the worker could do was roading and because I didn't know where we would settle (although I'm still for the rice-cow first because I fear we might get blocked off by Wang Kong ). SO idecided to road our resources, it might come in handy
That only happens at size 5 - size 4 is fine without military. Rice-cow is so far it will cost an arm in maintenance. I kinda doubt WK will send his 2nd settler to claim the rice but it could be possible, we don't know anything about what's around his land.
I'd rather lose the cow-rice site than have trouble at home and huge maintenance costs.
Roading away from the Capital would have been better is my point - faster movement afterwards. Sheep can always be hooked up at sizes 7+ when we start getting unhealthy.
1. kossin
2. mfie - Just played 3. Stochastic - UP!
4. mjg5591 - On deck
5. cripp7
6. Meerk
7. The Simple Mind
If we're really so paranoid about losing a "crappy" site to WK, we can always swap in another settler after this one whip>worker.
I just can't see passing on the Copper for a non-useful site.
We don't know what's to our east, need some military capacity sooner rather than later.
Ok, so I've played a test round mostly to see what I can do with the worker while I'm waiting for the border pop of Eridu. (I went pottery-->writing tech wise)
Thoughts are to pre the forest N of Uruk then start building road N of pig until 1 turn before border pop. Then move to wheat
Meanwhile, Uruk builds another worker. If I whip it (for 1 pop) 2 turns in it has just enough time to finish the chop forest and then get to copper to start mining as soon as the border pops. The question is, what do I do with the extra chop? It could go into another settler, the barracks or another archer. I'm inclined towards the settler, but then do I whip Uruk down to 2 for the settler or do it the old fashioned way?
Writing is still 9 turns off, so there is time to regrow before whipping a library, but there isn't any military production except at Eridu, which when it started, was going for archer in 13.
So in 11 turns I finish the settler, settle Eridu, build and worker and finish a settler.
Is that too much REX not enough pointy stick?
I've attached the start and end of my test for the curious.
edit:
After thinking a bit more I believe that the outlined option is too fast as the 3rd settler wouldn't have a designated escort. All other units are currently either on choke or exploration duty. So I would be relying on Wang Kong to keep barbs away and Shaka staying tight and not breaking out.
So having said that... chop into barracks or wait on chop and no whip at all?
I'm trying a few alternatives, will use this post to show results.
Try 1: I can get a settler out well on his way and and extra archer by turn 42 - nevermind Fishing I just placed it without thinking. I'd prefer Writing for libraries/scientists and OB with WK for foreign trade routes
Try 2: settler ahead 1 space from Try 1, 1 more road. Started granary instead of warrior
What I did in try 2:
Connecting copper right now isn't necessary, food will be more helpful short term
Turn 31 worker goes 1N of Uruk, chops 1 turn then hit cancel
Turn 38: worker 1 starts chop, worker 2 moves to worker 1 and helps to chop
Turn 39: worker 1 finishes chop - Archer produced next turn
worker 2 goes 1S and chops for 1 turn then cancel [It's not worth roading the wheat right now, doesn't provide any faster movement for units nor workers]
Turn 40: Pottery in (possibly earlier in actual game) - Archer produced>Start on granary or 1 more archer
Both workers move on wheat to improve (3 turns)
Turn 41: Uruk finishes Settler, can start warrior 4 turns = 4 turns to growth or granary = 15 turns [more on this later]
Settler moves to cow-rice spot
Turn 42: wheat improved, one worker goes on pre-chopped forest and chops 1 turn
Cons: bronze is hooked up a bit later and road to new city is delayed a bit as a result
pros: wheat improved. Less whip anger. Settler out faster. 1 more archer
Regarding warrior vs granary in Uruk - it doesn't matter really. I'd go granary first, but change from spice to a forested grassland for 1 turn so we can 2-pop whip once we reach size 4 (should be on turn 50) into a ???
Thing to decide: the next city will be a major hit on the economy - if we can delay it just a bit to let us finish Writing it would be great. (3 turns)
But of course, if you see a WK settler incoming, settle before Writing is complete
I'm trying a few alternatives, will use this post to show results.
Try 1: I can get a settler out well on his way and and extra archer by turn 42 - nevermind Fishing I just placed it without thinking. I'd prefer Writing for libraries/scientists and OB with WK for foreign trade routes
Try 2: settler ahead 1 space from Try 1, 1 more road. Started granary instead of warrior
Connecting copper right now isn't necessary, food will be more helpful short term
Cons: bronze is hooked up a bit later and road to new city is delayed a bit as a result
pros: wheat improved. Less whip anger. Settler out faster. 1 more archer
Regarding warrior vs granary in Uruk - it doesn't matter really. I'd go granary first, but change from spice to a forested grassland for 1 turn so we can 2-pop whip once we reach size 4 (should be on turn 50) into a ???
Thing to decide: the next city will be a major hit on the economy - if we can delay it just a bit to let us finish Writing it would be great. (3 turns)
But of course, if you see a WK settler incoming, settle before Writing is complete
I agree with delaying the copper, we aren't building vultures yet and Eridu hasn't grown to 2 yet either.
I'm reconsidering going for writing before fishing. None of our cities have much access to commerce to multiply and I'm not sure that we want to spend 3 population in one city on scientists (one food tile to support specialists and 2 scientists) when we only have ~5-8 (depending on whip status) total population. It just seems that fishing will give us a more general short term boost if we want to be churning our units while writing will be very good for research but restrict one city to only research duty (4-5 cap means only 1-2 "spare" pop for that city). But then again, maybe that is my inexperience talking
The warrior build in Uruk is only for Military police, it's not gonna do anything else for the rest of the game.
Writing will bring in a good churn of research for 4 reasons:
-scientists in Uruk and maybe somewhere else (we can always take them off)
-25% science multiplier in Uruk with the 8 from Palace
-foreign trade routes with WK are worth 2 each although we need to get a road up there
-earlier GS that can be settled if need be
Fishing OTOH is worth right now about 4 but we already have 2 food resources in Uruk and we might be churning out Vultures soon rather than settlers/workers - and we'd need 60 to get both wb's out. I *think* getting a granary rather than 2 workboats will be worth more food but I haven't done any math to back this claim.
Writing will bring in a good churn of research for 4 reasons:
-scientists in Uruk and maybe somewhere else (we can always take them off)
-25% science multiplier in Uruk with the 8 from Palace
-foreign trade routes with WK are worth 2 each although we need to get a road up there
-earlier GS that can be settled if need be
When you start the granary, just swap a warrior in for 1 turn somewhere or the granary will get over 30 and we can't 2-pop whip it. (Overflow in Library if you can and after finish the warrior and then finish the Library)
Whew! After much (personal) anxiety about my first Emperor turn set, here's the report, everything went pretty much as planned. Kudos goes out to Kossin of course...
Inherited turn 42:
Warrior NW-forest to heal
Pottery in 9
Mover Archer in Uruk towards settle site
Turn 43
Warrior heals for 3
Settler in, revolt to slavery
get archer to Shaka hill
Turn 44
Uruk--> worker
Saladin has a scout on the settler spot: Move in for the kill!
Spoiler:
The first casualty of WAR
Turn 45
Settle Eridu --> Archer in 13
Whip worker in Uruk
Turn 46
Uruk --> Settler in 8
Worker starts chop
Turn 47 Archer #2 sights barbarian warrior in jungle
Turn 48
Notice that Shaka has built a settler. Not sure if that happened earlier, sorry.
Turn 49
Warrior is healed --> explore towards Shaka.
Turn 50
Pottery is in --> Writing in 10
Turn 51
Shaka revolts to slavery
Livy Livy on the wall who's the most advanced of all???
Spoiler:
Surprise surprise... Not us ! But interestingly Wang Kong isn't much better, I always thought of him as a good tech leader.
Turn 52
Settler (Kish) done
Farm tile done, switch Eridu to use that, growth in 2
Turn 53
Stonehenge BIDL
Sitting Bull founds Povery Point IDL (of course he is most advanced, so the name doesn't really fit )
Turn 54
Chop finished --> Eridu finished archer --> Granary
Turn 55-56
Worker movment and stuff.
And the warrior plays tag with Shaka
Spoiler:
Round and round the mulberry bush...
Turn 57
Switch Uruk to warrior to hold off on the granary
Turn 59
Our stalwart warrior knocks off a barbarian archer w combat 1 promo. -->Woodsman 1 for warrior (I know theoretically to wait for promo, but warrior was wounded and there is lots of forest/jungle so I think that is a solid choice), heal 2 turns.
Spoiler:
Sorry, I seem to have lost the screen shot. It was 1E of where he is now
Uruk finishes warrior--> back to granary
Throttle back research (ie 0%) to get cash.
Turn 60
Slot in Vulture in Uruk for one turn to hold off on granary
Whip granary in Eridu
Research back to 100%
Turn 61
Whip granary in Uruk--> back to vulture. (might want to switch to library on the inherit though)
Settle Kish
Spoiler:
And that is it.
Placeholdered Fishing for the tech, but we only break even money wise at 20% so I think it is safe to say that we'll be wanting a library right quicklike. I am now truly appreciating the value of going for writing first!
Our homebase:
Spoiler:
Our finance:
Spoiler:
Notes/thoughts:
Might we be able to use the warrior as bait to draw out Shaka's archers when we have an attacking stack ready? Having seen the horses nearby Shaka I don't think we want to go with the plan of releasing the choke for a bit and then going in for the kill, dealing with chariots/HAs would be a pain.
The barbarian archer lurking on our western peninsula might cause future problems.
Lots of nice shiny gold north of Shaka, obviously too far away right now though.
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I figured the penninsula start would make things interesting enough 
so we don't need a road for the extra 
2E from the wheat.
to get both wb's out. I *think* getting a granary rather than 2 workboats will be worth more food but I haven't done any math to back this claim.
