timmy827
King
I don't really have any experience with worker steals or chokes, so I'll yield to the rest of team's decision on that one. Obviously that informs the only real decision for the next round - Warrior or worker after our 1st worker done?
KoS4 - Something more casual (?)
- Thread starter kossin
- Start date
Stochastic
Prince
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- Nov 6, 2009
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- 411
This is a "got it," play will most likely happen late tomorrow evening (New Zealand time) if there are no raging discussions about what to do next
I agree, taking those surplus workers off the AI's hands is really just redistributing them to those who will use them to the fullest.
I would really doubt a 2nd worker is worth it, we've got lots to do, but we also need time to grow before we can work those tiles. Definitely warrior next.
My plan would be to loop our current warrior back around towards Nap and get the second to scout out the east. That will probably be it for my 15 turns, actually I probably won't even finish the 2nd warrior
Longer term:
I think we'll have time to get a third warrior out for city defense before getting to size 4, that is when I usually start building settlers because it opens the 2 pop whip and I expect that we'll want to go for BW next anyways to turn all those lovely trees into settlers.
I agree, taking those surplus workers off the AI's hands is really just redistributing them to those who will use them to the fullest.
I would really doubt a 2nd worker is worth it, we've got lots to do, but we also need time to grow before we can work those tiles. Definitely warrior next.
My plan would be to loop our current warrior back around towards Nap and get the second to scout out the east. That will probably be it for my 15 turns, actually I probably won't even finish the 2nd warrior
Longer term:
I think we'll have time to get a third warrior out for city defense before getting to size 4, that is when I usually start building settlers because it opens the 2 pop whip and I expect that we'll want to go for BW next anyways to turn all those lovely trees into settlers.
It would be too late to steal worker. Worker steal does with first warrior or warrior one build befor first worker.
If you read my old GS, I build city on plain hill and was working forested hill ties for 5 hammers/turn, producing scouts then warriors. Scout went around exploring first finding fast where opponents are when warriors follow them. Warriors steal worker before capital culture expand to 3 and before workers build roads. So, archers can not kill warrior and take worker back. Scouts in mean time were returning to escort workers back to our culture, when warriors continue to keep eye on AI and preventing his new workers to work for some time.
If I remmeber correctly I manage to steal 3 workers from 3 different AI and 2 of them made back.
With out using that strategy we are too late for warrior worker steal. Now our best chance to choice one of AI would be chariot worker steal/pillage. Idea behind slowing down one of AI is to prevent his grow so we have AI 1/2 of of our land/population size to vassal.
If you read my old GS, I build city on plain hill and was working forested hill ties for 5 hammers/turn, producing scouts then warriors. Scout went around exploring first finding fast where opponents are when warriors follow them. Warriors steal worker before capital culture expand to 3 and before workers build roads. So, archers can not kill warrior and take worker back. Scouts in mean time were returning to escort workers back to our culture, when warriors continue to keep eye on AI and preventing his new workers to work for some time.
If I remmeber correctly I manage to steal 3 workers from 3 different AI and 2 of them made back.
With out using that strategy we are too late for warrior worker steal. Now our best chance to choice one of AI would be chariot worker steal/pillage. Idea behind slowing down one of AI is to prevent his grow so we have AI 1/2 of of our land/population size to vassal.
timmy827
King
No, first round was too early to steal worker. In BTS the AI does not start with one below Immortal difficulty.
Stochastic
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2009
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Summary: Fellow would be Emperors were met, people were put to work, and the local wild life was encountered. In the interest of maintaining suspense the identity of the animal and the result of that suspenseful meeting shall be left for the main body .
Turn 16
Looks like Zara has a surplus of grain, fortunately it isn't all irrigated.
Turn 17
Meet this bloke coming from the east of Zara
Also Buddhism FIDL.
Turn 19
From the far north we meet the founder of Buddhism
However I later bumped into a second scout from him coming from the East around Zara's culture, so he's probably not from the far north.
Turn 22
Meet a Babylonian guy, but I forgot to label where.
Our warrior also had to fend off the first lion. We survive unscathed with an extra pelt.
Turn 25
Worker is done -> Warrior in 20, growth in 11.
I decide to irrigate the corn over the wheat to get the extra food over the extra hammer.
Turn 26
Hinduism FIDL.
Turn 27
Mansa converts to Hinduism
On turn 30 I'm done so that's it for the set.
My intention was to send the warrior back around Zara to see if there is a worker on the corn, I think we still have a few turns before the border pops...
I'd like to get a warrior out to the east to see what is going on there, all the scouts I met were from that direction, but from the coast my Zara it looks like the land may end abruptly. So maybe the scouts just all looped under Zara and came back to us.
Here is the land so far:
And the diplo, a very exciting dull gray as you would expect:
.Turn 16
Looks like Zara has a surplus of grain, fortunately it isn't all irrigated.
Spoiler :
Turn 17
Meet this bloke coming from the east of Zara
Spoiler :
Also Buddhism FIDL.
Turn 19
From the far north we meet the founder of Buddhism
Spoiler :
However I later bumped into a second scout from him coming from the East around Zara's culture, so he's probably not from the far north.
Turn 22
Meet a Babylonian guy, but I forgot to label where.
Spoiler :
Our warrior also had to fend off the first lion. We survive unscathed with an extra pelt.
Turn 25
Worker is done -> Warrior in 20, growth in 11.
I decide to irrigate the corn over the wheat to get the extra food over the extra hammer.
Turn 26
Hinduism FIDL.
Turn 27
Mansa converts to Hinduism
On turn 30 I'm done so that's it for the set.
My intention was to send the warrior back around Zara to see if there is a worker on the corn, I think we still have a few turns before the border pops...
I'd like to get a warrior out to the east to see what is going on there, all the scouts I met were from that direction, but from the coast my Zara it looks like the land may end abruptly. So maybe the scouts just all looped under Zara and came back to us.
Here is the land so far:
Spoiler :
And the diplo, a very exciting dull gray as you would expect:
Spoiler :
Stochastic
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2009
- Messages
- 411
Since Zara's corn was unimproved when I swung buy, I expect that the workers have yet to be put into action.
edit: Since we've met a bunch of leaders now we should probably start thinking about who to focus the eps on
Mansa is likely to be our best trading buddy for a while. I'd focus EPs on him.
Looks like we're stuck top right of the map... unless there's a big sea in the middle of the continent, we're going to have to choke someone to have enough city spots. Choking both Nappy and Zara would be perfect but is it achievable?
1. kossin
2. Stochastic - Just Played
3. Mutineer - UP!
4. mlinneak - On deck
5. timmy827
6. Tatran
7. babybluepants
Looks like we're stuck top right of the map... unless there's a big sea in the middle of the continent, we're going to have to choke someone to have enough city spots. Choking both Nappy and Zara would be perfect but is it achievable?
1. kossin
2. Stochastic - Just Played
3. Mutineer - UP!
4. mlinneak - On deck
5. timmy827
6. Tatran
7. babybluepants
Whoa, man! We just rolled a start two days ago, and there's two full TS's done! You guys are fast. 
I'm too busy to look at the save or even read the discussion too carefully this week...
Worker stealing and choking is quite easy on Emp Epic. Typically, I follow it quick kills, which we can't do here. Not much experience with extended chokes... I wouldn't worry too much about going in with warriors pre-horse/copper. We might just hold them with a warrior for a bit, and even if we can't, they won't strike back for quite some time. I think both Zara and Nap have to be contained to a single city here. Our land sucks too much.
I'm too busy to look at the save or even read the discussion too carefully this week...
Worker stealing and choking is quite easy on Emp Epic. Typically, I follow it quick kills, which we can't do here. Not much experience with extended chokes... I wouldn't worry too much about going in with warriors pre-horse/copper. We might just hold them with a warrior for a bit, and even if we can't, they won't strike back for quite some time. I think both Zara and Nap have to be contained to a single city here. Our land sucks too much.
I played for 3 turns untill AH and stopped for discussion of future direction.
First, horses, we know only about 1 near as and 1 near Zara.
Going around zara show low probability of worker steal, as corns away from border or next to city. Archer will attack and kill our warrior, making worker steal form him problematic.
We really have bad scouting so far. We should consider building stonehenge somewhere (not in capital). So far the only source of stone I can see is near Zara. Why consider stonehenge? 8 culture/turn make it a good land grabbing wander. Fee obelisk does same.
So, what is our next research path? I see 3 choices.
1) well for chariots, first settler hooking horses.
2) Bronze for usual Bronze goodness.
3) Meditation - Massonry - first settler settle on stone and try to build stonehenge.
Currently no good source seen.
Bronze is safe path, meditation-massonry is alternative as I see
First, horses, we know only about 1 near as and 1 near Zara.
Spoiler :
Going around zara show low probability of worker steal, as corns away from border or next to city. Archer will attack and kill our warrior, making worker steal form him problematic.
Spoiler :
We really have bad scouting so far. We should consider building stonehenge somewhere (not in capital). So far the only source of stone I can see is near Zara. Why consider stonehenge? 8 culture/turn make it a good land grabbing wander. Fee obelisk does same.
So, what is our next research path? I see 3 choices.
1) well for chariots, first settler hooking horses.
2) Bronze for usual Bronze goodness.
3) Meditation - Massonry - first settler settle on stone and try to build stonehenge.
Currently no good source seen.
Bronze is safe path, meditation-massonry is alternative as I see
timmy827
King
I suppose I'd rather know more about the east of us than south of Zara, but the next warrior should be able to fix that.
The corn farm is complete this turn right? I think it makes sense to grow to size 4 before starting Settler for any plan so as to use the four early resources, though I think now our growth is likely to go 2t/6t/6t so we will grow a bit faster than the worker will improve the tiles. Then the settler will take 10t if all 4 resources were hooked up, so call that 12, plus a few turns moving, so something like ~27 turns until plant city, then 6 more for the pasture - we almost have time to research bronze before wheel, but that will cost us preroading of the horses route.
For horses site, think 1NE of horse/1S of rice is best of all locations that get the horse w/o culture pop. Also only 3 tiles of road needed to connect horses to Carthage.
For stone - well, we'd have to scout more before deciding to settle on stone; usually I'd expect that city to need the hammers from a quarry to actually complete it.
As for path:
Stonehenge is good (esp given Charismatic), but I think choking AI's is going to be more important so I am in favor of chariot plan. Also I think the chance of losing Stonehenge is nontrivial, but I imagine a chariot choke is almost guaranteed to work on at least one AI.
The corn farm is complete this turn right? I think it makes sense to grow to size 4 before starting Settler for any plan so as to use the four early resources, though I think now our growth is likely to go 2t/6t/6t so we will grow a bit faster than the worker will improve the tiles. Then the settler will take 10t if all 4 resources were hooked up, so call that 12, plus a few turns moving, so something like ~27 turns until plant city, then 6 more for the pasture - we almost have time to research bronze before wheel, but that will cost us preroading of the horses route.
For horses site, think 1NE of horse/1S of rice is best of all locations that get the horse w/o culture pop. Also only 3 tiles of road needed to connect horses to Carthage.
For stone - well, we'd have to scout more before deciding to settle on stone; usually I'd expect that city to need the hammers from a quarry to actually complete it.
As for path:
Stonehenge is good (esp given Charismatic), but I think choking AI's is going to be more important so I am in favor of chariot plan. Also I think the chance of losing Stonehenge is nontrivial, but I imagine a chariot choke is almost guaranteed to work on at least one AI.
We really got hit by the worst part of the land =\
SH would be good I agree. Plus it'd help fight Zara's culture somewhat. I don't think we have time to hook up the Stone however so it'd have to come from chops... meaning second city having several trees. The horse site doesn't have this so it may be we can't get it... but then again it's been a while since I've played Emp/Epic so I'm not used at wonder times anymore.
Anyway, I think it's more important to get horses and choke Nappy+Zara.
1S of the rice looks fine as it might be difficult to use the rice otherwise. That alone should allow us to secure a bunch of land, steal workers and, possibly, border Mansa so that he will voluntarily vassal more easily.
SH would be good I agree. Plus it'd help fight Zara's culture somewhat. I don't think we have time to hook up the Stone however so it'd have to come from chops... meaning second city having several trees. The horse site doesn't have this so it may be we can't get it... but then again it's been a while since I've played Emp/Epic so I'm not used at wonder times anymore.
Anyway, I think it's more important to get horses and choke Nappy+Zara.
1S of the rice looks fine as it might be difficult to use the rice otherwise. That alone should allow us to secure a bunch of land, steal workers and, possibly, border Mansa so that he will voluntarily vassal more easily.
It looks like we're cornered in the NE.
There are no IND leaders, so the Stonehenge in the second city is ok.
Maybe we should look for a spot where we can hit the city center of
Aksum after our second city has reached 60% culture.
(40% isn't possible, because Zara is CRE.)
I love to annoy neighbours with the spy culture mission.
This also means we should (re-)direct our EPs towards Napoleon and Zara.
There are no IND leaders, so the Stonehenge in the second city is ok.
Maybe we should look for a spot where we can hit the city center of
Aksum after our second city has reached 60% culture.
(40% isn't possible, because Zara is CRE.)
I love to annoy neighbours with the spy culture mission.
This also means we should (re-)direct our EPs towards Napoleon and Zara.
Stochastic
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2009
- Messages
- 411
If we want to go after SH maybe we should put our first city between the corn and plains cow by Zara. Plenty of wood around to chop and the culture from ST will help push him back. That placement also leaves just enough room for a filler city SW of the wine.
Then in a world without barbs I'd propose settling on the elephants by Nap to get an aggressive block out. Third city could be horses/rice. But, that has the detriment of getting horses out really late so unless we spawnbust the NE and NW we would almost certainly run into Barb trouble. It is probably better to grab the corn/cows for SH and then the horse/rice and then jumbo.
For techs this means that we should probably go for BW if timmy's timing is right.
Here is a quick DM of what I was talking about if anyone's lost, of course it could all change when we scout the NE and BW is in...
Then in a world without barbs I'd propose settling on the elephants by Nap to get an aggressive block out. Third city could be horses/rice. But, that has the detriment of getting horses out really late so unless we spawnbust the NE and NW we would almost certainly run into Barb trouble. It is probably better to grab the corn/cows for SH and then the horse/rice and then jumbo.
For techs this means that we should probably go for BW if timmy's timing is right.
Here is a quick DM of what I was talking about if anyone's lost, of course it could all change when we scout the NE and BW is in...
Spoiler :
Chopping SH with out stone is a bit too expensive in terms of forests and worker turns.
Settling, building and linking stone is slow to, the cheapest way is to settle on stone, then city can build. Chopping requite additional tech.
But for Now I made decision to research well. Basically it will give our worker time to pre-road a bit to chariot city and chariot city still look as most solid plan right now.
On start of turn I attacked wounded archer at 80+% odds, getting 3 exp, one more defense give that warrior 4 ex, enough for our charismatic leader to grant him woodsman 2. After healing, we was ambushed.
But been woodsman2 on forested hill he survived, heal and now south of Nappy.
our capital 6 turns to size 4 and 6 turns to warrior. We should switch to settler on size 4.
I did work forested plain hill to speed up first 2 warriors for a time.
We have 2 warriors near Nappy, hopefully he give as an opportunity to steal worker from him.
Settling, building and linking stone is slow to, the cheapest way is to settle on stone, then city can build. Chopping requite additional tech.
But for Now I made decision to research well. Basically it will give our worker time to pre-road a bit to chariot city and chariot city still look as most solid plan right now.
On start of turn I attacked wounded archer at 80+% odds, getting 3 exp, one more defense give that warrior 4 ex, enough for our charismatic leader to grant him woodsman 2. After healing, we was ambushed.
Spoiler :
But been woodsman2 on forested hill he survived, heal and now south of Nappy.
Spoiler :
our capital 6 turns to size 4 and 6 turns to warrior. We should switch to settler on size 4.
I did work forested plain hill to speed up first 2 warriors for a time.
We have 2 warriors near Nappy, hopefully he give as an opportunity to steal worker from him.
timmy827
King
Too late now; I should have pointed out earlier that the grass cows is unconditionally better than the wheat and would be done 1t sooner even with the extra worker move.
With stonehenge out, would assume BW is our next tech then Pottery (early granary in Carthage seems like a must, with only one hill by far the best way to make settlers is the triple whip).
With stonehenge out, would assume BW is our next tech then Pottery (early granary in Carthage seems like a must, with only one hill by far the best way to make settlers is the triple whip).
mlinneak
Prince
So I am up now, right? I have the save.
I am thinking the plan is so far to scout some more, tech Bronzeworking, and possibly get a settler out?
I will wait a while for some more comments / ideas from the team please. Will likely check in again tonight and should be able to play to keep the game moving. Hopefully there will be some more comments for me
I am thinking the plan is so far to scout some more, tech Bronzeworking, and possibly get a settler out?
I will wait a while for some more comments / ideas from the team please. Will likely check in again tonight and should be able to play to keep the game moving. Hopefully there will be some more comments for me
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