Lack of editor

[Flying Couch]

so far as I can tell there's no kind of editor going on with civ IV, now granted, The editor in civ III was a pain, but I think it was easier than the XML that they have now, Does anybody else agree?

 

[jbfballrb]

i do kind of miss it, it was a lot easier to make maps esp, but also rules. tho i think that the Python/XML/SDK will ultimately be better, just because of so much flexibility, and it should get easier the long we have at it

 

[Stuporstar]

I do kind of miss it as well. The world builder is very nice, but I do miss being able to generate any kind of map within it and being able to change the rules. I think the Python/XML/SDK has a lot of potential though. I've already started doing simple mods with XML and as a complete beginner I'm not finding it too hard. Wait a year. I'm sure by then one of our wonderfully industrious modders will have come up with a GUI interface that will make simple mods all the more easier for those not so inclined to open up notepad and just dig in.

 

[WildWeazel]

Somebody could make a random map generator using the Python scripts....

 

[ShroudedMist]

My single biggest problem with the editor is the utter slowness with which editing of terrain tiles takes place. The 30 second lag every time you want to change a tile from hill to grassland is a major obstacle for people wanting to create mods.

 

[WildWeazel]

OK that's it. As soon as I learn enough Python I'm going to write a new map editor.

 

[gunburned]

Maybe one day some brace soul will make one for us

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

While you are at it, you should make it a rules editor like C3C's one as well..

 

[WildWeazel]

I would if I knew how. That would also require mastery of XML (which I hear is easily incorporated into Python)

 

[Marla_Singer]

In the user manual they talk about a development kit (SDK) which will be out in 2006. Does anyone know what that SDK stuff will be exactly ?

 

[WildWeazel]

It will be the C++ source code of the game, including everything but the Gamebryo engine and the "core civ engine" which we assume is the basic game shell that makes the program run. Hopefully it will come with some useful apps too.

 

[tbear2520]

My biggest gripe is that the Earth map is not able to be randomized. With random civ's and random staring locations. I have looked into it and somebody could do it if they knew the exact code to plot map the entire Earth. The info is there from the xml but some how that data would have to be hardcoded into py code. Which even if you were a pro and knew for sure that the code you were typing would work at the end it still would require alot of time to plot out each x\y plot. This would put an earth selection though under the Map portion on Single player - customize. So you could play Earth instead of a map randomly generated.

But on the other end. The positive end. The concept of experience and being promoted is a fantastic idea. One, I at first greatly under estimated. For instance my scout uncovered a goody hut and gained experience. I was able to promote him twice and gained the ability to travel at a cost of 1 across jungle and forest, which normally would be a cost of 2. I can only imagine that this will get even better as I play. As with other civ's I am sure there will be more civilizations to come out as well as many more units(siege units please). So for now I'll stay quite on that.

A thought for the developers. I increased my research cost to 400 and my years to pass by 1, oh and turned off technology trading. Started at 4000 BC and played over 100 turns. That's awsome because every turn ain't vital. The choosing of your research is, but thats true to life. The whole game play gives you a real since of an empire.You have numerous archers and what not. You learn quickly to grab the techs that give you farming and mining, since your workers have the time to develope the landscape. I did do a few other miner tweaks.

well here's the changes

Gigantic World Change

<WorldInfo>
<Type>WORLDSIZE_GIGANTIC</Type>
<Description>TXT_KEY_WORLD_GIGANTIC</Description>
<Help>TXT_KEY_WORLD_GIGANTIC_HELP</Help>
<iDefaultPlayers>18</iDefaultPlayers>
<iUnitNameModifier>0</iUnitNameModifier>
<iTargetNumCities>8</iTargetNumCities>
<iNumFreeBuildingBonuses>8</iNumFreeBuildingBonuses>
<iBuildingClassPrereqModifier>100</iBuildingClassPrereqModifier>
<iMaxConscriptModifier>85</iMaxConscriptModifier>
<iWarWearinessModifier>-70</iWarWearinessModifier>
<iGridWidth>37</iGridWidth>
<iGridHeight>23</iGridHeight>
<iTerrainGrainChange>1</iTerrainGrainChange>
<iFeatureGrainChange>1</iFeatureGrainChange>
<iResearchPercent>160</iResearchPercent>
<iTradeProfitPercent>25</iTradeProfitPercent>
<iDistanceMaintenancePercent>75</iDistanceMaintenancePercent>
<iNumCitiesMaintenancePercent>10</iNumCitiesMaintenancePercent>
<iNumCitiesAnarchyPercent>2</iNumCitiesAnarchyPercent>
</WorldInfo>

Epic Change

<GameSpeedInfo>
<Type>GAMESPEED_EPIC</Type>
<Description>TXT_KEY_GAMESPEED_EPIC</Description>
<Help>TXT_KEY_GAMESPEED_EPIC_HELP</Help>
<iGrowthPercent>100</iGrowthPercent>
<iTrainPercent>100</iTrainPercent>
<iConstructPercent>100</iConstructPercent>
<iCreatePercent>100</iCreatePercent>
<iResearchPercent>400</iResearchPercent>
<iBuildPercent>150</iBuildPercent>
<iImprovementPercent>150</iImprovementPercent>
<iGreatPeoplePercent>150</iGreatPeoplePercent>
<iCulturePercent>150</iCulturePercent>
<iAnarchyPercent>150</iAnarchyPercent>
<iBarbPercent>125</iBarbPercent>
<iFeatureProductionPercent>67</iFeatureProductionPercent>
<iUnitDiscoverPercent>100</iUnitDiscoverPercent>
<iUnitHurryPercent>150</iUnitHurryPercent>
<iUnitTradePercent>150</iUnitTradePercent>
<iUnitGreatWorkPercent>125</iUnitGreatWorkPercent>
<iGoldenAgePercent>150</iGoldenAgePercent>
<iHurryPercent>100</iHurryPercent>
<iHurryConscriptAngerPercent>150</iHurryConscriptAngerPercent>
<iInflationPercent>18</iInflationPercent>
<iInflationOffset>-150</iInflationOffset>
<GameTurnInfos>
<GameTurnInfo>
<iYearIncrement>1</iYearIncrement>
<iTurnsPerIncrement>10000</iTurnsPerIncrement>
</GameTurnInfo>
</GameTurnInfos>
</GameSpeedInfo>

Yes I know there's text and little things to make this fully work, but anybody reading this and who has gone through some of the forums will see very similar stuff and should be able to locate these. It's only posted to show the changes I made that ended up putty a real empire feel into the game. I am playing 18 on a Gigantic Continent based game (meaning 3-4 contintents with oceans) starting at the begining of the technology tree. You fly through the first 40-50 turns or so but you do have to watch out for the animals. After that though it really starts to open up the game. I do exspect though that many other changes will need to be done in order to balance out the production of buildings and units.

Have fun.

Tbear2520

 

[ShroudedMist]

If you look at the python scripts that ship with the game, it appears very possible to construct a random map that uses a static "map" like Earth. Someone simply needs to write a small function that takes in the grid info from the World Builder Save file and use that in lieu of calling the random plot generation function. The scripts really don't seem to suggest that you are unable to pass the .py script a static data set to use as the base map.

Now someone simply needs to write the .py script lol.

 

[Erocco]

I missing a simple editor SOOO much. I just don't have the time to sit and understand XML files, pythons and etc. I wiss for a simple editor for game stat customization.

 

[rob.derosa]

did an editor come with the original civ3. i could have sworn it came out in one of the expansions

 

[Liquid-Fire]

Now it do agree that i world editor is not very good becuase of many problems with it, but i think the Python/XML/SDK will be better in the long run for the game modding.

 

[t3ch]

I remember when people whined about the civ3 editor... things never change. html/xml is probably thee easiest script language to learn. Creating xml and python files is going to be alot more flexable than the 'missed' civ3 editor ever was.

If you can't understand xml, then give up now. You will never understand a real programming language.

 

[Feet]

It really is a problem for the amatuer modder.

I have no knowledge of XML and Python and I imagine the SDK will similarly blow my mind.

I was hoping for an editor like Civ 3 for those of us who don't know how to do these things.

I now face the prospect of learning XML (which isn't the end of the world) but it's gonna slow me down considerably.

 

[eldar]

FWIW - I voted 'oh well'. I plan on using everything up to and including the SDK, after all I develop for a living. XML and Python present no worries to me. For those XML noobs:

XML 101.

XML is text. Edit it using Notepad or your favourite text editor. (There are specialist editors out there, but it's almost certainly not worth getting one.)

These are the [basic] rules of XML:

0. Start every XML document with <?xml version='1.0'?>. (This may not apply to Civ4?)
1. [Good] XML is self-descriptive. Each tag describes the data contained within it.
2. For every opening tag <tag> there must be a matching closing tag </tag>.
3. A tag will generally contain text, or other tags.
4. An XML document must have a single tag that contains every other tag in the document.

There are other rules, but I'm willing to bet they don't apply to Civ4, so as to keep things simple (by this I mean - attributes, namespaces, DTDs/schemas, and other even more fiddly stuff).

 

[Liquid-Fire]

If you take a look at the existing XML file, it should not slow you down that much, maybe a little and there will be a little more work than the civ3 edit but i think the XML files are better for modding than the civ 3 editor, i am just very disappionted with the state of the world builder. i guess i will just focus on the XML files till they patch the world builder and the game itself( the memory leak problem)