Lakes ridiculously overpowered in early game, plz nerf

[nj666]

In that game, he rushed his first Settler across the continent to stick it near L29Ah's capital and immediately purchased precious lake tiles.

Right, because he also had ANOTHER LAKE nearby and put second city there for more population boom. I tried to at least grab a slice from that.

If you're going to self-impose ridiculous rules that were generated from prison culture, you can hardly be surprised if you fail to get ahead - in Civ or in life.

If you don't respect Ponyatiya - in any decent prison your life will become terrible and be ruined forever. And even if you never get to prison there are a lot Ponyatiya-respecting people around you and you will be their enemy.

 

[Owlbebach]

Research path was to 1) check if I have any horses nearby to determine where to build cities 2) reveal more resources such as Deer 3) improve Jade 4) make archer to have at least some means of defence until better units available. Wtf is wrong with that?

1) Horses - okay.
2) 2nd tech is almost always Pottery. Archers are useless in defense and deer is not a big deal
3) Jade is a waste of science, you should have researched Military Theory for Barracks

 

[tu_79]

If you don't respect Ponyatiya - in any decent prison your life will become terrible and be ruined forever. And even if you never get to prison there are a lot Ponyatiya-respecting people around you and you will be their enemy.

What age are you? 14?

 

[nj666]

2) 2nd tech is almost always Pottery

I picked first tech Pottery, then husbandry, then others.

Archers are useless in defense and deer is not a big deal

They are effective vs warriors or spearman, but mainly to protect workers and improvements from enemy pathfinders. I did not expect horses so early.

you should have researched Military Theory for Barracks

And then what? Archer with Morale promotion? His horseman would come right after I finish barracks.

What age are you?

For what purpose are you interested in it?

 

[Owlbebach]

And then what? Archer with Morale promotion? His horseman would come right after I finish barracks.

Nope, your own Horseman. His is not superhuman he can build horseman 7 or 10 turns before you in the luckiest start possible. Not more than that

 

[nj666]

Nope, your own Horseman. His is not superhuman he can build horseman 7 or 10 turns before you in the luckiest start possible. Not more than that

With lake (2 lakes actually), horses near capital, 2 silks and three citystates nearby he is superhuman, trust me. And apart from his 5 horses near capital there was only 1 horse resource with quantity of 1 and that was far from my capital (in fact it wad closer to him than to me). So I would have to make settler, then he needed about 10 turns to walk there, also I got worker later than he (city states probably gave hi, culture boost) and this worker would also need 10 turns to reach city with 1 horse.
EVERYTHING WAS Moderator Action: <SNIP>[/mod2 AGAINST ME IN THAT GAME.
Even if SOMEHOW built 1 horse, he could make 5, and them what?

Moderator Action: Please use appropriate language and find a way to be more civil in your discussions here. leif
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Owlbebach]

With lake (2 lakes actually), horses near capital, 2 silks and three citystates nearby he is superhuman, trust me. And apart from his 5 horses near capital there was only 1 horse resource with quantity of 1 and that was far from my capital (in fact it wad closer to him than to me). So I would have to make settler, then he needed about 10 turns to walk there, also I got worker later than he (city states probably gave hi, culture boost) and this worker would also need 10 turns to reach city with 1 horse.
EVERYTHING WAS ******* AGAINST ME IN THAT GAME.
Even if SOMEHOW built 1 horse, he could make 5, and them what?

Play Strategic Balance next time. But in fact Horseman are easy to defend with just Spearmen

 

[Grabbl]

Already against spearmen, archers can't do much. If you expect early war, especially in MP, it's spearmen or Horsemen you should aim at.

When your problem is balancing multiplayer, it is completely normal to agree on additional rules. This was very true in Vanilla (think of the many rules to eliminate the "first one to frigates wins" problem) and especially when mixing AI and human, remains true in VP. If you can't trust the other players, you either have to accept that all game mechanics will be used (also AI decisions), or play with other people. Also, randomness will always be part of the game (but not a questionable concept like "natural luck"), that's why many MP games either play on certain "balance map types (Duel, Oval) or on maps that were edited by a third party to obtain a good balance.

Anyway, this is a game, and you don't need to apply every ideal that you follow in life, or at least not expect that the game works fine with such constraints. And this is a community protect, so you can propose changes, but don't get angry if other players don't agree with you. Try to be diplomatic, don't assuming that you are the only one that understands certain game mechanics. Even if that would be so, your proposals won't be accepted more (look at that recent deity discussion for one of the last patches).

 

[nj666]

Play Strategic Balance next time. But in fact Horseman are easy to defend with just Spearmen

Yeah I was researching bronze working when his horseman appeared. Sure I could just rush spearman but I hoped to have some horses nearby. And when you have 3 cities you need to have 3-5 spearmen to defend against one horseman (which is fast and can run around pillaging everything and hunting workers and lone units), in no Moderator Action: <SNIP> case I would have time to build 5 spearmen.

Moderator Action: Please use appropriate language on our forums. leif
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Owlbebach]

And when you have 3 cities you need to have 3-5 spearmen to defend against one horseman

I'm pretty sure that 5 Spearment is enough to defend 3 Horsemen.

 

[nj666]

Already against spearmen, archers can't do much.

just add 1 melee unit such as pathfinder to 3 archers and they will rape spearmen. And archers are exceptionally good vs cities early on.

 

[nj666]

pretty sure that 5 Spearment is enough to defend 3 Horsemen.

if they surround them in some dead end - sure.
In practice, horses will hit-n-run and sandwich them one-by-one, thrn run away to pillage some stuff to heal. You must have enough spearman in every city or important place, so 15 instead of 5 can work. They are slow as fudge.

 

[Paramecium]

You mean being some kind of slave dog to other player and beg for mercy? Sorry, no.
1) It makes game not fun
2) I will lose anyway in the end
3) There is russian moral/ethics code called "ponyatiya" which I take very seriously. It explicitly forbids any such behavior.
And being slave dog to AIs is even worse.


Yes but when it outnumbers you 50 to 1 it doesn't help.


It's not impossible, it can't actually beat me but it can ruin all hopes to compete with other players in MP who do not have aggressive AIs nearby. I have to sacrifice empire's development to produce more units, and I can only defend with them, because when I finally clear out AI's huge attack wave my War Wearyness is already unbearable and I have to make peace. So it goes on infinetely.

Fun for me.

I do diplomacy with other players and AI and win.

Adherence to Ponyatia is not in feature-list of VP. I think you should stick to DotA.

The only way of "diplomacy" with player that is three times ahead of you is begging for mercy, which seriously violates Ponyatiya. I do diplomacy when possible, but only as equals.


It isn't related to VP. But Ponyatiya must be respected regardless if it's real life, game or porn fantasy. Otherwise it's path to Opuskanie, which is permanent.

Hm, so you guys are russians? I have no prejudices etc. and in general I am a very harmonic person, who wants to hear others opinion. But it sound to me, that you are that type of russian gamer who killed my fun in Dota 2, having some smart asses with a fixed plan in his head and everything has to obey it but the team is losing left and right, I had that a lot and it resulted in a lot of wasted time. I dont want to say that russian gamers are bad or sth, I had a lot of good games with ones, but those dickheaded trolls were just to numorous.

In that game, he rushed his first Settler across the continent to stick it near L29Ah's capital and immediately purchased precious lake tiles.

And he complained about that L29Ah attacked that fresh city with its horsemen? I have no further question, judge ....

 

[tu_79]

For what purpose are you interested in it?

Your ways are not those of a mature person. Your ideas don't even hold with reality. This can only mean you are either a teenager or in need of help.
Since the beginning you come here complaining against perfectly fine mechanics that only you find wrong, while it has been proved once and again that you don't know how to play properly. You reject any kind of advice and only demand a change for your ill way of playing. In my dictionary, this is trolling.

Benevolent players try to put some sense into you. I think you are lost cause. I'm just writing in spite of those that may be fooled by what you are saying.

 

[leif erikson]

Moderator Action: Please report posts instead of answering trolls. This thread has deteriorated because of the sniping. Have dealt with nj666, so can we please return this thread to civility. Thanks.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[admfischer]

I, for being a Prince player, should feel ashamed for necroing this thread, but apparently the occurrence of this 8-tiles lake syndrome isn't only limited to the Communitas map script.

Behold, this is what Planet Simulator can create:

Can you imagine nj's terror?

 

[ElliotS]

Yeah it happens once in a while. Not OP with production removed from lakes on pantheon now tho.