We tend to have a lot of discussion on here about early to mid game elements of the CPP, which is fair enough; these have a major impact on how a game will go. Late game tends to get overlooked however, and there are a number of late game elements that I feel warrant some discussion.
1. Faith purchases
The faith cost of buildings increases as the game progresses through eras. Past a certain point, generally by the Industrial era, it stops being really viable to purchase them, even if you've invested in buffs for them, such as the Tourism reformation belief. By the Atomic Era, a Cathedral costs 1080 faith. Early and mid game, the only real competition for Faith points is missionaries and inquisitors, but Industrial onwards, faith investment in buildings has to be balanced against purchasing Great People. Virtually every time, the Great People are going to win out, especially as some, such as Great Merchants, become more powerful late game. Buying buildings that were powerful in the early and mid game but do not improve in the late game just doesn't really add up.
2. Policy trees
2.a) Rationalism
By far what I feel to be the most problematic tree to balance, since its focus is Science, and the whole game is based around Science, Rationalism's biggest issue right now, I feel, is that it's dead boring. Industry massively boosts your production rates by incentivizing mines and lumbermills through Entrepreneurship, encourages you to grab any luxury resources you can via the finisher, synergises with Piety via buffed internal trade routes and makes investing in buildings much more powerful, which, when combined with the new science on investment, gives a big reward. Imperialism revolutionises how you use aircraft once they show up and turns farms into powerhouses, not to mention making Ocean and Sea tiles much better, which, given that the Communitas map tends to produce resource rich islands, can be quite powerful.
Rationalism by contrast just feels dull. Probably the most interesting policy is Free Thought, but ever since Farms were changed to gain +1 food from 2 neighboring farms, villages became rarer. This runs doubly for Rationalism since you don't get the buffed farms from Imperialism. The happiness boost for removing religious unrest feels very minor; when I adopted this policy in my most recent game, I gained 2 happiness. Industry would have given me far more.
Scientific Revolution and Empiricism are both fairly "nothing" policies. Gaining an extra 2 happiness from a monopoly isn't exactly earth shattering, nor is extra food or production on luxury tiles; you simply don't control enough of these tiles for it to be meaningful. The same issue plagues Empiricism; strategic resources aren't plentiful enough for buffing their yeilds to be meaningful. If this was available in the Ancient era it would likely be game changing, since +3 Science in the early game on strategic resources would be very strong. Late game though, even in a massive empire, this might translate into 30 or so science from tiles. When science production runs 1000+ late game, this is a drop in the ocean. Science and production from specialists is decent, but again, this doesn't produce that much overall. By comparison, +2 production on specialists from Industry has a larger impact because city production is measured in hundreds, not thousands.
And yet despite all this, the tree is undoubtedly powerful. +10% science when happy, and 20% during Golden Ages, are undeniably powerful. As is a cool +25% growth in all cities. It's just that it's dull. Your playstyle doesn't really change, you don't do anything differently, and no policy you unlock makes you go "Oh wow, I can feel the difference that made!"
2.b) Imperialism
A very cool tree, and the changes to the finisher are excellent. Free Range promotion across the board is fantastic, and really buffs aircraft, especially B17's, which can, from construction, get +2 range, double attack.
Exploration should probably give Great Admirals bonus movement, just like it gives Great Generals the same. Revealing undiscovered capitals is rather pointless given the point it usually shows up, but might be situation-ally useful.
Exploitation is a total game changer, and a massive boost. It really feels meaningful to grab.
By far the biggest issue in the tree I feel is Martial Law. This policy has always had some issues fitting into the game because it incentivizes not building Courthouses. The trouble is that this synergises horribly with the two Ideology trees focused on conquest, Autocracy and Order. Autocracy gives you Happiness from Courthouses, a very useful bonus, and Order straight up gives you free Courthouses on capture (great synergy with Civilising Mission too). The game also straight up gives you free investment in a Courthouse if you annex the city, making it even less likely that you're going to not build one.
Even aside from that, the colossal happiness hit you take from occupation doesn't warrant the +33% production boost. This runs doubly for empires focused on conquest, which Imperialism encourages, because conquest lowers happiness a lot. It's just not feasible to be not building Courthouses as quickly as possible if you don't want hordes of rebels breaking down the walls of your Capital.
2.c) Industry
The only issues I find with Industry are chiefly based around Corporations. If any policy tree should interact with Corporations, its Industry, but the tree has no policies that directly assist corporations (The extra trade route does help them indirectly). Mercantilism buffing Internal Trade Routes also doesn't play nice with Corporations, which hugely encourage international trade routes. Plus there's the issue of internal trade routes falling off in late game; if you're going for a culture victory, you really want your trade routes going outside your empire, not inside it. Even if you're not, you don't want other Civs having much cultural influence over you, not if you want the freedom to choose your Ideology.
Well, there's my thoughts. Let's get some discussion going on this!
1. Faith purchases
The faith cost of buildings increases as the game progresses through eras. Past a certain point, generally by the Industrial era, it stops being really viable to purchase them, even if you've invested in buffs for them, such as the Tourism reformation belief. By the Atomic Era, a Cathedral costs 1080 faith. Early and mid game, the only real competition for Faith points is missionaries and inquisitors, but Industrial onwards, faith investment in buildings has to be balanced against purchasing Great People. Virtually every time, the Great People are going to win out, especially as some, such as Great Merchants, become more powerful late game. Buying buildings that were powerful in the early and mid game but do not improve in the late game just doesn't really add up.
2. Policy trees
2.a) Rationalism
By far what I feel to be the most problematic tree to balance, since its focus is Science, and the whole game is based around Science, Rationalism's biggest issue right now, I feel, is that it's dead boring. Industry massively boosts your production rates by incentivizing mines and lumbermills through Entrepreneurship, encourages you to grab any luxury resources you can via the finisher, synergises with Piety via buffed internal trade routes and makes investing in buildings much more powerful, which, when combined with the new science on investment, gives a big reward. Imperialism revolutionises how you use aircraft once they show up and turns farms into powerhouses, not to mention making Ocean and Sea tiles much better, which, given that the Communitas map tends to produce resource rich islands, can be quite powerful.
Rationalism by contrast just feels dull. Probably the most interesting policy is Free Thought, but ever since Farms were changed to gain +1 food from 2 neighboring farms, villages became rarer. This runs doubly for Rationalism since you don't get the buffed farms from Imperialism. The happiness boost for removing religious unrest feels very minor; when I adopted this policy in my most recent game, I gained 2 happiness. Industry would have given me far more.
Scientific Revolution and Empiricism are both fairly "nothing" policies. Gaining an extra 2 happiness from a monopoly isn't exactly earth shattering, nor is extra food or production on luxury tiles; you simply don't control enough of these tiles for it to be meaningful. The same issue plagues Empiricism; strategic resources aren't plentiful enough for buffing their yeilds to be meaningful. If this was available in the Ancient era it would likely be game changing, since +3 Science in the early game on strategic resources would be very strong. Late game though, even in a massive empire, this might translate into 30 or so science from tiles. When science production runs 1000+ late game, this is a drop in the ocean. Science and production from specialists is decent, but again, this doesn't produce that much overall. By comparison, +2 production on specialists from Industry has a larger impact because city production is measured in hundreds, not thousands.
And yet despite all this, the tree is undoubtedly powerful. +10% science when happy, and 20% during Golden Ages, are undeniably powerful. As is a cool +25% growth in all cities. It's just that it's dull. Your playstyle doesn't really change, you don't do anything differently, and no policy you unlock makes you go "Oh wow, I can feel the difference that made!"
2.b) Imperialism
A very cool tree, and the changes to the finisher are excellent. Free Range promotion across the board is fantastic, and really buffs aircraft, especially B17's, which can, from construction, get +2 range, double attack.
Exploration should probably give Great Admirals bonus movement, just like it gives Great Generals the same. Revealing undiscovered capitals is rather pointless given the point it usually shows up, but might be situation-ally useful.
Exploitation is a total game changer, and a massive boost. It really feels meaningful to grab.
By far the biggest issue in the tree I feel is Martial Law. This policy has always had some issues fitting into the game because it incentivizes not building Courthouses. The trouble is that this synergises horribly with the two Ideology trees focused on conquest, Autocracy and Order. Autocracy gives you Happiness from Courthouses, a very useful bonus, and Order straight up gives you free Courthouses on capture (great synergy with Civilising Mission too). The game also straight up gives you free investment in a Courthouse if you annex the city, making it even less likely that you're going to not build one.
Even aside from that, the colossal happiness hit you take from occupation doesn't warrant the +33% production boost. This runs doubly for empires focused on conquest, which Imperialism encourages, because conquest lowers happiness a lot. It's just not feasible to be not building Courthouses as quickly as possible if you don't want hordes of rebels breaking down the walls of your Capital.
2.c) Industry
The only issues I find with Industry are chiefly based around Corporations. If any policy tree should interact with Corporations, its Industry, but the tree has no policies that directly assist corporations (The extra trade route does help them indirectly). Mercantilism buffing Internal Trade Routes also doesn't play nice with Corporations, which hugely encourage international trade routes. Plus there's the issue of internal trade routes falling off in late game; if you're going for a culture victory, you really want your trade routes going outside your empire, not inside it. Even if you're not, you don't want other Civs having much cultural influence over you, not if you want the freedom to choose your Ideology.
Well, there's my thoughts. Let's get some discussion going on this!
