Late game discussion

[kaspergm]

What I am saying, is that you already get 3 different great people unlocks from policy-trees, meaning that most likely the number of GPs unlocked from your GoG replacements would be 1 or 2, which is honestly speaking garbage.

I just happen to disagree (and peace be with that). All beliefs are situational. If you unlock Tradition and/or Rationalism, obviously you'd want to skip the one that lets you buy Engineers and Scientists. Conversely, if you unlock Aesthetics, obviously you'd want to skip the one that allows you to recruit Artists (in the broader sense). (And I'm aware I haven't taken Generals/Admirals into the equation here.) But still, there are plenty situations where you might want to take them. Like I said, if I play Liberty + any tree but Rationalism, the ability to buy Engineers and Scientists alone is immensely powerful. And the fact that I also gets to by Writers and Artists in the same go just seems stupidly powerful to me.

PS: Can we draw this part out into XML code instead - so that we can individually assign Great People to beliefs depending on our temperament? Then default can be as it is, but those like me who want to can mash it up differently?

 

[Funak]

Like I said, if I play Liberty + any tree but Rationalism, the ability to buy Engineers and Scientists alone is immensely powerful. And the fact that I also gets to by Writers and Artists in the same go just seems stupidly powerful to me.

Except if you went for Liberty you have absolutely no use for the unlock of Writers, because writers are already unlocked by Liberty.

GoG is not powerful because it allows you to pick up great people that you otherwise couldn't, GoG is powerful because it allows you to pick up all great people, and because the faith-cost of great people more than double with each purchase, more great people to choose from means doubly more great people purchased, which in turn means a whole lot more historic events. Outside of Historical events, GoG is definitely not too powerful at all.

 

[hokath]

Outside of Historical events, GoG is definitely not too powerful at all.

That's just not true. As I just wrote, there are many other triggers from GPs. Take the amount of culture you can get, the GoG purchasing spree can be several policies for a smaller Empire.

 

[merill]

Buying Admirals and GGs? It's either you have enough of them naturally, or pop them instantly. In the latter case all other GPs provide better instant yields than these two.

With only 1k faith, it's a very good deal with some beliefs (basically +700 all yields). And you can create a very good tile with a GG, and a lux with GAd.

 

[kaspergm]

Except if you went for Liberty you have absolutely no use for the unlock of Writers, because writers are already unlocked by Liberty.

Only if you play CBP ...

Take the amount of culture you can get, the GoG purchasing spree can be several policies for a smaller Empire.

This, exactly. If you time World Exhibition, or whatever the resolution is that gives you double culture for 20 turns, you can quite easily get enough culture return from buying 2-3 Great Writers to cover the entire culture you invested to expand the Piety tree to get to the Reformation belief in the first place.

 

[BenchBreaker]

Buying Admirals and GGs? It's either you have enough of them naturally, or pop them instantly. In the latter case all other GPs provide better instant yields than these two.

buying GG to steal an additional monopoly and get a good tiles in the process? yes please

buying GA to get 2 additional unique luxuries that nobody else have? why not

if you have glory of god/arsneal of democracy/ceremonial burial/mausoleum/tradition(splendor)/aesthetics opener/piety(univ of sangk) etc then each GG you spend gives you gives you so much yields on top you really dont mind which kinda of GP you buy

 

[Gazebo]

The easiest solution to all of this is a cooldown between Great People faith purchases...

G

 

[hokath]

Does that solve the problem? I mean, the value is still there to be had. How long a cooldown are you talking?

 

[Funak]

Only if you play CBP ...

Absolutely, everything I say is completely based from a full CPP experience point of view.

 

[Gazebo]

Does that solve the problem? I mean, the value is still there to be had. How long a cooldown are you talking?

15 turns, scaling? Sure, you still get the value, but not being able to save up for one big explosion of GPs would make the belief much less immediately valuable. You'll still eventually get the GPs, but it isn't quite as situationally exploitable.

G

 

[Gazebo]

PS: Can we draw this part out into XML code instead - so that we can individually assign Great People to beliefs depending on our temperament? Then default can be as it is, but those like me who want to can mash it up differently?

No, we can't, and - while this may sound unfair - I can't realistically try to balance CBP reformation beliefs around the modmods of other players. If you don't want to use the CBP that's totally fine, but this is a discussion about the CBP's balance, not vanilla or otherwise.

G

 

[kaspergm]

No, we can't, and - while this may sound unfair - I can't realistically try to balance CBP reformation beliefs around the modmods of other players.

I understand that, and that's totally fine. When I suggest pulling things out to XML, that's because that's the most flexible for all - whether they play CBP, CP only or some other combination, but I understand if that's outside your scope.

 

[Funak]

I understand that, and that's totally fine. When I suggest pulling things out to XML, that's because that's the most flexible for all - whether they play CBP, CP only or some other combination, but I understand if that's outside your scope.

One thing I don't understand... The Religion changes shouldn't be part of the base CP, should they?

 

[Gazebo]

I understand that, and that's totally fine. When I suggest pulling things out to XML, that's because that's the most flexible for all - whether they play CBP, CP only or some other combination, but I understand if that's outside your scope.

The religion pull would require a complete rewrite of the functionality of that belief, and all connections to it in the DLL. Blegh.

G