Some think and suggestion about Policy Tree

myclan

King
Joined
Feb 26, 2008
Messages
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The three Ideological Tenets are designed for Culture Victory, and two of three other Victory Type(Domination, Science, Diplomatic). Maybe they don't behave as nice as we think, their aim is very clear.

Tradition VS Progress VS Authority:
It emphasizes the different strategies of early game: Tall VS Wide VS Early War.

Tall means High POPULATION in Few Cities, population need to work, so actually relies more on Tiles.
But as population grows, the quality of tiles they can work is getting worse. So beside boosting growth in cities, we can compensate it by:
1. Unique Improvement of certain civilization
2 Growing speed of border, so more valuable tiles.
3. Specialist slot and great people
4. Bonus Yield based on population (like +1 culture/3 pop)
Now the tradition tree is doing good at speeding growth and 2, but I will suggest a scientist/engineer/merchant slot in EVERY city. The Great People points needed are growing so fast, and there are many late building providing slots, not OP I think.
And we need 4 to boost the yield of a tall city to counter the unhappiness from Growing Needs.

Wide has fewer Population, instead relies more on BUILDING in Many Cities. ONE city can have only ONE building, no matter how many Population there are.
So the policy should give yield bases on the number of cities. It's doing very good now. It gives production, gold, science, food, culture by finishing building, and happiness, powerful enough.
Certain civilization with Unique building may be Even better with Progress.

Early War may be best for Certain Civilization of Early UU. Now authority is strong enough even in King/Emperor Difficulty. Quite good design.

Fealty VS Statecraft VS Artistry:

Statecraft strengthens the Influence on City State, favoring Diplomacy Victory. It's wonderful to combine with Spies and World Congress.

Artistry aims to getting more Great Work/Culture/Tourism, favoring Culture Victory. As we can only build 3 Guilds of each type in total. It's becoming very difficult to get new Great Works in Late Game, so I will suggest:
1. Perhaps enable building more Guilds?
2. Giving more bonus on Great Writer/Artist/Musician Growth.
3. Considering the rarity of Great Works of Writing/Art/Music, give them more Yield.
4. The Trade Route Tourism Modifier should be back to Artistry.

Fealty: Faith should be a more important currency in early/mid game than late game. Players with Fealty should have more advantage than who without, so I suggest:
1. Boosting the yield of shrine, temple, and even religious building, not providing faith only.
2. Higher Religious Pressure and further Spreading (not by enhancer belief)
3. Stronger missionary/inquisitors(not by enhancer belief)
4. I like the idea of Boosting WLTKD(may be longer) and Internal Trade Routes.
5. But why boosting Castles/Armories/Pasture/Military Units? Shouldn't they belong to Authority/Imperialism/Autocracy?

Industry VS Imperialism VS Rationalism:

Rationalism: Boost science and favoring Science Victory. Good design enough, but I would like to boost production/gold from Science Building instead of Village, just like the idea of Industry

Industry: Comparing to Faith, gold becomes the more important currency in later game. So I quite like the idea of BNW to emphasize on Commerce, boosting Purchasing, Village Yield, International Trade Route, Market/Bank/Stock Exchange. And maybe improvement built on luxury resource.

Imperialism: Mid/Late game domination favoring policy. Quite good design. But as we need production to produce more units. I would like to boost Mine/Lumbermill here.
 
Wide works very well if you get involved in war. If you have a dozen highly productive cities cranking out state-of-the-art units, you can quickly gain parity after a surprise attack.
 
In my opinion, the issue with Tradition is that you're self-limiting yourself and many indirect nerfs while other buffs to wide play have made Tradition sort of weak overall to play.

Pantheons are weaker in general now, so the need to beeline for a certain pantheon choice isn't there anymore.

On another note, though...

Ancient PoliciesSource of :c5food: Source of :c5production: Source of :c5gold: Source of :c5science: Source of :c5culture: Source of :c5happy: Uniqueness?
Tradition+2 Food and +5 Food in the Capital from Opener and Majesty's Gardens while also coming in the form of 2 Citizens. Growth bonuses also apply in all Cities and specialists will eventually consume less allowing Capital to grow and specialize. Somewhat the best source?+1 in every City from Justice with its Royal Guardhouse granting +3 in the Capital. Also makes building National Wonders faster. The weakest source if you're trying to reach outside of your Cities.Only from Splendor's Merchant Slot and its +4 in the Capital. The weakest source.+3 in the Capital and up to +3 more in every City with Herbalist, Smokehouses, and Councils. Tied with Authority in being the best source if Authority civs continue to kill units, otherwise, Tradition wins!Having early access to Writers, Artists, and Musicians as well as the Splendor's bonus to Monuments, Gardens, and Baths.+2 in the Capital and more from National Wonders.Acquire early great people from specialist access and an earlier pantheon generation.
ProgressGet +3 from Fraternity in each City!Get +15% Production toward Buildings from Organization and +3 from Expertise in each City!+3 from Liberty in each City and the bonus toward improving tiles faster and trade units helps adds to getting more gold in the early game out more. The best source.+3 from Fraternity in each City when you connect cities!Only from building buildings and gaining population in the Capital. Can be the worst source if your cities are not initially rewarded with good yields to build and grow.Massive unhappiness reduction while +1 in every City. The best source.Strong emphasis on tile improvements and infrastructure. Build buildings more and improve tiles more to progress! This is weirdly enough the best Tutorial policy tree to take.
AuthorityLimited in Tribute Policy in a Free Settler and you demanding tributes from Maritime City-States, the weakest source to get.Opener, Scaler, and for expanding borders. The best source.Expanding your borders and encouraging you incentives to take barbarian encampments. As well as reducing gold maintenance from roads and units.Kill units, found or conquer cities! Tied with Tradition in being the best source.Kill units! Build a barrack, found or conquer cities! Arguably the best source if you keep killing units.Mainly building a barrack! Tied with Tradition in being the worst source to get.The only tree in the early game to buff early warfare extensively and rewards you for rushing the bottom tech tree.
By the time, the medieval policy tree comes; we're going to focus more on unique buffs rather than yield sources since yields can come in many forms by the time we unlock medieval tree.
Note: Fealty feels fine since its need is for you to create the "feudal nobility" that is usually upstarted by religion but its benefits basically don't deny any non-Holy City owners from taking the policy. If it started buffing shrines, temples, missionaries, and inquisitors directly (aside from reducing faith cost), this can be hard for Fealty civs that don't found to justify because they don't have a strong incentive to spam missionaries and have stronger religious pressure.
Medieval PoliciesMain Yield Per CityWhat is the focus?Unique Aspect
Fealty+1 Food and +1 Defense, grow and defend cities better!Defenses and HappinessSpend faith to purchase a Monastery that can help offset Science and Food problems immediately.
Statecraft+1 Gold in every City, use the gold to invest and purchase more!Trade Routes and PoliticsGain spies early. Easiness at acquiring City-State Alliances and gets rewarded for keeping them.
Artistry+1 Science in every City, advance with the arts and the technologies!Staying ahead in Great Works and Technologies. Massive emphasis on staying ahead.Hit a Golden Age faster and acquire more Great Writers/Artists/Musicians. Can see hidden antiquity sites.
And when the Industrial tree hits, we focus more on how we want to solidify our gameplay.
Industrial PoliciesFocusStrategyDoes its job
IndustryIt's industrial revolting time!Invest invest invest! We push our cities to the limit!Yes, there's a strong emphasis on passive playstyle for Industry, and I hope you to pave a Corporation later on.
ImperialismMaintain the status quo or break the status quo!Acquiring cities and holding cities won't be as burdening as the other 2 trees. You're less likely to stay behind as you're able to upgrade at a cheaper cost and have more mobility in your army!Yes, strong versatility in maintaining the status quo as you are ahead or breaking the status quo in gaining fast upgrades to break the snowballer before they can upgrade everything.
RationalismMake the Science Advisor say that's efficiency!Keep growing, every policy here is achieved around growth and science.Yes, every policy aims at making you build science buildings and all policies have many tools for you to fight unhappiness as you constantly grow. Even has a unique aspect of making "snow colonies" useful!
 
I see some outdated information and misses is you ancient tree :
  • Demanding tribute no longer provide specific yields, only :c5gold:, so Authority have no source of :c5food: outside of demanding heavy tribute for a quest.
  • Authority has arguably an additional source of :c5gold:, which is tributes. Over trees can too, but the emphasize on having a strong military and using it, and the bonus :c5culture: from policy, means you will actively seek to tribute.
  • Whilst progress have only 3:c5science: in every cities, compared to tradition with 3 more in capital, it is faster to reach those bonuses and you can get it right after founding a city, if you prepared the road to the new location.
  • Progress awards :c5science: from population in the capital, not :c5culture:. Gaining new technologies awards :c5culture:, from the opener and scaler.
  • Authority also get :c5culture: from tributes.
 
In my opinion, the issue with Tradition is that you're self-limiting yourself and many indirect nerfs while other buffs to wide play have made Tradition sort of weak overall to play.

Pantheons are weaker in general now, so the need to beeline for a certain pantheon choice isn't there anymore.

On another note, though...

Ancient PoliciesSource of :c5food:Source of :c5production:Source of :c5gold:Source of :c5science:Source of :c5culture:Source of :c5happy:Uniqueness?
Tradition+2 Food and +5 Food in the Capital from Opener and Majesty's Gardens while also coming in the form of 2 Citizens. Growth bonuses also apply in all Cities and specialists will eventually consume less allowing Capital to grow and specialize. Somewhat the best source?+1 in every City from Justice with its Royal Guardhouse granting +3 in the Capital. Also makes building National Wonders faster. The weakest source if you're trying to reach outside of your Cities.Only from Splendor's Merchant Slot and its +4 in the Capital. The weakest source.+3 in the Capital and up to +3 more in every City with Herbalist, Smokehouses, and Councils. Tied with Authority in being the best source if Authority civs continue to kill units, otherwise, Tradition wins!Having early access to Writers, Artists, and Musicians as well as the Splendor's bonus to Monuments, Gardens, and Baths.+2 in the Capital and more from National Wonders.Acquire early great people from specialist access and an earlier pantheon generation.
ProgressGet +3 from Fraternity in each City!Get +15% Production toward Buildings from Organization and +3 from Expertise in each City!+3 from Liberty in each City and the bonus toward improving tiles faster and trade units helps adds to getting more gold in the early game out more. The best source.+3 from Fraternity in each City when you connect cities!Only from building buildings and gaining population in the Capital. Can be the worst source if your cities are not initially rewarded with good yields to build and grow.Massive unhappiness reduction while +1 in every City. The best source.Strong emphasis on tile improvements and infrastructure. Build buildings more and improve tiles more to progress! This is weirdly enough the best Tutorial policy tree to take.
AuthorityLimited in Tribute Policy in a Free Settler and you demanding tributes from Maritime City-States, the weakest source to get.Opener, Scaler, and for expanding borders. The best source.Expanding your borders and encouraging you incentives to take barbarian encampments. As well as reducing gold maintenance from roads and units.Kill units, found or conquer cities! Tied with Tradition in being the best source.Kill units! Build a barrack, found or conquer cities! Arguably the best source if you keep killing units.Mainly building a barrack! Tied with Tradition in being the worst source to get.The only tree in the early game to buff early warfare extensively and rewards you for rushing the bottom tech tree.
By the time, the medieval policy tree comes; we're going to focus more on unique buffs rather than yield sources since yields can come in many forms by the time we unlock medieval tree.
Note: Fealty feels fine since its need is for you to create the "feudal nobility" that is usually upstarted by religion but its benefits basically don't deny any non-Holy City owners from taking the policy. If it started buffing shrines, temples, missionaries, and inquisitors directly (aside from reducing faith cost), this can be hard for Fealty civs that don't found to justify because they don't have a strong incentive to spam missionaries and have stronger religious pressure.
Medieval PoliciesMain Yield Per CityWhat is the focus?Unique Aspect
Fealty+1 Food and +1 Defense, grow and defend cities better!Defenses and HappinessSpend faith to purchase a Monastery that can help offset Science and Food problems immediately.
Statecraft+1 Gold in every City, use the gold to invest and purchase more!Trade Routes and PoliticsGain spies early. Easiness at acquiring City-State Alliances and gets rewarded for keeping them.
Artistry+1 Science in every City, advance with the arts and the technologies!Staying ahead in Great Works and Technologies. Massive emphasis on staying ahead.Hit a Golden Age faster and acquire more Great Writers/Artists/Musicians. Can see hidden antiquity sites.
And when the Industrial tree hits, we focus more on how we want to solidify our gameplay.
Industrial PoliciesFocusStrategyDoes its job
IndustryIt's industrial revolting time!Invest invest invest! We push our cities to the limit!Yes, there's a strong emphasis on passive playstyle for Industry, and I hope you to pave a Corporation later on.
ImperialismMaintain the status quo or break the status quo!Acquiring cities and holding cities won't be as burdening as the other 2 trees. You're less likely to stay behind as you're able to upgrade at a cheaper cost and have more mobility in your army!Yes, strong versatility in maintaining the status quo as you are ahead or breaking the status quo in gaining fast upgrades to break the snowballer before they can upgrade everything.
RationalismMake the Science Advisor say that's efficiency!Keep growing, every policy here is achieved around growth and science.Yes, every policy aims at making you build science buildings and all policies have many tools for you to fight unhappiness as you constantly grow. Even has a unique aspect of making "snow colonies" useful!
For food, Tradition is the best when having plenty of food surplus to enjoy +20% growth, and needing to feed several specialist in cities in LATER era. But for a newly built city in EARLY era, +3 food per city just develop easier. Food is also easier to get with Trade Routes.

For production and gold, Tradition is weak as stated, and it make thing worse for we need production and gold to hurry building, which is very important in VP.

For culture and science, Tradition can have a advantage when having all those building finished, but just too slow for their cities.

For happiness, Tradition just don't have enough to support high population, which make faster growth less valuable.
 
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