Late Game Unit Changes - resources, naval mostly

[Randall Turner]

Immortal late game bonuses are the same? I though the AI had some slightly different gold and happiness modifiers for deity.

Yeah, there's some, I can't find the spreadsheet right now. But the differences are overwhelmed by the AI's late-game production capabilities. Plus - They don't typically spend all their gold, and they never get into happiness problems (that I can see anyway).

I could hook up the tuner and investigate their condition in more detail, but all I really need to see is the wall-to-wall units to tell they're not having any difficulties whatsoever until I actively kill them back some.

To add a missile to the BB, do...

<Row>
<UnitType>UNIT_BATTLESHIP</UnitType>
<PromotionType>PROMOTION_CARGO_III</PromotionType>
</Row>

...where the BB's have their default promotions. (Note - this won't take effect for already built BB's, but it'll show up as an available promotion for them on their next level-up.)

 

[roguepro92]

Yeah, there's some, I can't find the spreadsheet right now. But the differences are overwhelmed by the AI's late-game production capabilities. Plus - They don't typically spend all their gold, and they never get into happiness problems (that I can see anyway).

songhai sitting with 19k gold and 50GPT yet has less military units than me...
im at -20GPT with 1k gold in reserves

the ai needs to spend their money better lmao

 

[Randall Turner]

They finally did in my game, Rogue. Basically spent it all (where 70,000 down to 15,000 I'll consider "all") and got serious on me.

Huge per-turn incomes still, esp. Arabia (reasonable).

At one point, I had four civs with over 50K in gold reserves, and all four were in wars. One fighting for its life. what the...

But, it got "better".

 

[Ddude97]

Where do i put this line of code? (If you give me the xml file I'll figure out the table) And would what I did instead work? (See below)

Spoiler :

<Row>
			<Class>UNITCLASS_BATTLESHIP</Class>
			<Type>UNIT_BATTLESHIP</Type>
			<PrereqTech>TECH_TELEGRAPH</PrereqTech>
			<Combat>100</Combat>
			<RangedCombat>42</RangedCombat>
			<Cost>700</Cost>
			<Moves>6</Moves>
			<Range>3</Range>
			<CombatClass>UNITCOMBAT_NAVAL</CombatClass>
			<Domain>DOMAIN_SEA</Domain>
			<DefaultUnitAI>UNITAI_ATTACK_SEA</DefaultUnitAI>
			<Description>TXT_KEY_UNIT_BATTLESHIP</Description>
			<Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_CIV5_INDUSTRIAL_BATTLESHIP_TEXT</Civilopedia>
			<Strategy>TXT_KEY_UNIT_BATTLESHIP_STRATEGY</Strategy>
			<Help>TXT_KEY_UNIT_HELP_BATTLESHIP</Help>
			<MilitarySupport>true</MilitarySupport>
			<MilitaryProduction>true</MilitaryProduction>
			<Pillage>true</Pillage>
			<IgnoreBuildingDefense>true</IgnoreBuildingDefense>
			<Mechanized>true</Mechanized>
			<AdvancedStartCost>60</AdvancedStartCost>
			<MinAreaSize>20</MinAreaSize>
			<XPValueAttack>3</XPValueAttack>
			<XPValueDefense>3</XPValueDefense>
			[COLOR="SeaGreen"]<!-- This adds the missile slot-->[/COLOR]
			<SpecialCargo>SPECIALUNIT_MISSILE</SpecialCargo>
			<DomainCargo>DOMAIN_AIR</DomainCargo>
			[COLOR="SeaGreen"]<!--/End-->[/COLOR]
			<UnitArtInfo>ART_DEF_UNIT_BATTLESHIP</UnitArtInfo>
			<UnitFlagIconOffset>68</UnitFlagIconOffset>
			<IconAtlas>UNIT_ATLAS_2</IconAtlas>
			<PortraitIndex>21</PortraitIndex>
			<MoveRate>BOAT</MoveRate>
		</Row>

 

[Randall Turner]

Sorry, Ddude, was out today.

Let me fire up the game and just test it here...

Edit: Ahh, it looks like you might need them both - your edit to tell the BB what it can carry, and the starting promotion to tell it how many it can carry.

Stick my "promotion" line down around line 5800 of the xml file I posted, anywhere inside the <Unit_FreePromotions> block (which is HUGE) will work, but you probably want to keep it next to the other BB promotions or you'll have a bugger of a time finding it again.

Anyway, I've got new BB's (older BB's don't get the promotion automatically) happiily sailing around with cruise missiles on them.

(oh my god these things are just f'ing badasses....)

Actually, I think I'll do this. My older BB's can't carry missiles, but they're soooo leveled up they're practically a different type of animal anyway.

Haven't played the game for the last two days, Ddude, like I said - may have hit burnout. But I finished all my yard work today and went to the gym like a good boy, so maybe I'll pull the trigger on the "final war" and have something interesting to post in a day or two, we'll see.

(Partner, I'm old. I actually get physically worn out from playing sometimes.)

 

[Ddude97]

Sorry, Ddude, was out today.

Let me fire up the game and just test it here...

Edit: Ahh, it looks like you might need them both - your edit to tell the BB what it can carry, and the starting promotion to tell it how many it can carry.

Stick my "promotion" line down around line 5800 of the xml file I posted, anywhere inside the <Unit_FreePromotions> block (which is HUGE) will work, but you probably want to keep it next to the other BB promotions or you'll have a bugger of a time finding it again.

Anyway, I've got new BB's (older BB's don't get the promotion automatically) happiily sailing around with cruise missiles on them.

(oh my god these things are just f'ing badasses....)

Actually, I think I'll do this. My older BB's can't carry missiles, but they're soooo leveled up they're practically a different type of animal anyway.

Haven't played the game for the last two days, Ddude, like I said - may have hit burnout. But I finished all my yard work today and went to the gym like a good boy, so maybe I'll pull the trigger on the "final war" and have something interesting to post in a day or two, we'll see.

(Partner, I'm old. I actually get physically worn out from playing sometimes.)

I haven't been able to play as well, so I can't give any new info either. And thanks for telling me where I should put it (though I'm using your changes as a mod so its slightly different for me ). old are you?

 

[Randall Turner]

I haven't been able to play as well, so I can't give any new info either. And thanks for telling me where I should put it (though I'm using your changes as a mod so its slightly different for me ). old are you?

50's. A pretty active 50's but still, neck gets sore from too much time staring at the game. Have some old sports injuries, football and wrestling. (Again, just getting back to the gym, it's my own fault for neglecting myself.)

 

[Ddude97]

50's. A pretty active 50's but still, neck gets sore from too much time staring at the game. Have some old sports injuries, football and wrestling. (Again, just getting back to the gym, it's my own fault for neglecting myself.)

nice. I'm still in my teens
Should be able to play some more today

 

[Drakarska]

Nuclear Submarine Sight Range - Nuclear Submarines should also be able to operate independently, so I gave them a middling-good (+2) view range bump. Not as good as Destroyers, and they'll still lose a 1v1 general encounter with a Destroyer, but they can "see" around themselves fairly well now and you can send them off by themselves. (Rationale == good acoustic detection gear on modern subs.)

Was a little curious about your overall rationale behind this. As a former Navy OS on a Spruance class destroyer, a 1 on 1 scenario where the DD always wins is far from actual fact. In actuality, the sub usually held the advantage. Which was why SOP called for additional surface and air assests.

Additionally, modern SSN's have stand-off weps to make them a viable threat to surface targets at range. Not to mention a host of other options and counter-measures to ruin a DD's day.

Granted, I realise this is a game and your trying to fix the glaring problems inherent in the game and I applaud you for it. Was just interested in your reasoning of why a DD always comes out on top.

 

[Randall Turner]

Oh, no, Drakarska, I'm well aware than any SS/DD 1v1 encounter say, post-1950, there's no contest. Edit: wire guided torps, acoustic improvements, submerged speed massive improvements, etc.

I wasn't saying "it's that way because that's how it should be", I was saying, "I didn't break the current balance".

I think of the nuclear subs as early models. Not Nautilus-early, perhaps, say Skipjacks or such. With some weird mini-nuclear-missile capability**. (And correct me if I'm wrong, but likely the Skipjack would still win most of the time, right?)

The problem is that if we modeled nuclear subs as anything like realistic, they'd instantly become the dominant sea control unit. Almost to the exclusion of everything else. Like you say, a "reasonable" ASW effort is a team job, and if you checked with your submarine compatriots (on anything like a Los Angeles class, say), I'm sure they feel they're playing with a stacked deck.

Detection. Aargh. Hard. (Especially ours.)



** - some of the early Soviet models were equipped with like just a few missiles. <shrug> It (the game unit) has no real-world representative, I don't think.

ps - one of my DD's is named "Spruance" (and a "Gearing" and a "Sumner" etc.) and one of my SS's is "Skipjack". And someone said something about Fletchers being the biggest WWII DD's a few weeks ago, I was like, "wait, that's not... oh, whatever."

My brother retired as XO of VMA-311, we kick around the "Proceedings" articles. Not as up as someone who lived it, of course, but not totally clueless. I can speak to A-4's and AV8b's tho.

 

[Ddude97]

Hey would it be possible for you to list the changes you made? Or if not then just the units you made changes to? That would be especially helpful! The changes are working great!

 

[Randall Turner]

I named all the units in my OP, Ddude. Haven't made any more changes since, got the balance okay first try. (lessee...) Did drop the Rocket Artillery attack value a touch, didn't mention that. Oh, bumped GDR Uranium requirement up x2.

Basically, though, just "diff" the units file. (Download "windiff" or some similar free utility.)

 

[Ddude97]

K thanks, I thought you had mentioned them all but wasn't sure. I'm just going to do it the way you were now (Backing up the xml file then replacing instead of trying to use mod)
Never heard of windiff, but I'll try it

 

[bryanw1995]

The .40 modifier vs naval combat was introduced in one of the earlier patches (Dec maybe?). Personally, I don't like it being that much of a nerf. However, with the AI still being so weak at naval combat I don't know I'd get rid of it completely; your use of .60 or .75 seems like a reasonable compromise.

 

[Drakarska]

@ RT. Again, no worries. Was just merely curious. I appreciate you taking the time to explain your rationale to me. Keep up the good work.