Leader Ability Elimination Thread

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1. Alexander - To The World's End [28]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [19-3=16] She's better than Genghis but not much better.
6 . Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [26]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [26]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [11]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [19+1=20] Liberating a single city from the ai isn't hard even on deity and from there your production snowballs.
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [33]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [26]
30. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [30]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [32]
 
1. Alexander - To The World's End [28]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [16]
6 . Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [26]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [26]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [11]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [20-3=17] Liberating a single city from more advanced neighbour needs heavy investment... and actually doesn't give that much. Liberating cities regularly gives much, but requires being in winning position already.
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [33]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [26+1=27] If nobody can suggest even minimally convincing critique of the ability, this ability is probably flawless.
30. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [30]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [32]
 
1. Alexander - To The World's End [28-3=25] - perhaps the best for domination victory, but a one-trick pony; I like to have choices.
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [16]
6 . Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [26]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [26]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [11]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [17]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [33]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [27]
30. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [30]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [32+1=33] - Nothing flashy like some of the others, but all around solid. Probably the leader I played most as.
 
1. Alexander - To The World's End [25]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [16]
6 . Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [26-3 = 23] - Compared to the other similar abilities, this one has the advantage of being related to Surprise War, which is always available (unlike Territorial, Liberation etc), and it goes with other good bonuses like decreased war weariness. But it is still a bonus that you get only for 10 turns and you get only +movement, not +combat strength. So, for me, this is a weak leader ability at this stage of the elimination game.
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [26]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [11]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [17]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [33]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [27+1=28] - So far has received 14 negative comments (-42 points), but 11 of them are from the same person. This is not against the rules of this game, but IMHO it should represent the overall opinion of the community, so all those huge numbers of supporters must fight very hard to save Huang (42 possitive comments are needed to balance the 14 negative). So, here's another one. Reasons have been already said - the bonus stacks with Liang, you get it from the very beginning, you can buy quick builders when needed without worying too much about moving Liang and there's also the ability to speed up early wonders. Builders are needed in every single game, regardless the playstyle (war, peace), intended victory, map, situation...
30. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [30]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [33]
 
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1. Alexander - To The World's End [25]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [16 - 3 = 13] - The espionage game is not important at all. It is possible to win while completely ignoring this aspect of the game. While France is a fun civ to play, this leader ability adds little to the fun factor.
6 . Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [23]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [26]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [11 + 1 = 12] - Sometime I like to build more wonders. Sometimes I like to build more units. I always like to build districts, and 1/2 the build time is a gift that keeps on giving!
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [17]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [33]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [28]
30. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [30]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [33]
 
1. Alexander - To The World's End [25]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [13]
6 . Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [23]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [26-3=23] - I don't war unless I need to and fill up available land so I find this ability next to useless after the early game.
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [12]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [17]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [33]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [28+1=29] - Such a solid ability, easy wonders at the stage of the game when they are hard to get, extra builder charge the whole game.
30. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [30]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [33]
 
1. Alexander - To The World's End [25]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [13+1=14] People who don’t like espionage are people who don’t fully grasp what espionage can do. Make a fortune, hoard great works, dominate in battle, steal city states, kill space victories, and give the AI headaches. Catherine is the premiere leader for this. Starting with higher visibility and an early spy, she can easily get to +9 in combat.
6 . Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [23]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [23]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [12]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [17]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [33-3=30] Montezuma might, under favorable circumstances, get to +9 in combat strength by the time Catherine gets spies, but how far he can spread amenities is really not as strong as what spies can do in the mid to late game.
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [29]
30. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [30]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [33]
 
1. Alexander - To The World's End [25]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [14]
6 . Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [23]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [23]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [12]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [17]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [30]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [30] (29+1) --- I’m upvoting Qin Shi as a preemptive counterbalance to the Shanghai Chainsaw Massacre I suspect may be coming again.
30. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [30]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [30] (33-3) --- The ability adds a monument (+1 culture) to each city for free. Meh, meh. and more meh. Overvalued.
 
1. Alexander - To The World's End [25]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [14]
6 . Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [23]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [23]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [9] (12-3) - Sorry again, Hojo :-/ You're great, but i love the others here more still.
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [17]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [30]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [31] (30+1) --- Love this ability. Sad to see the repeated downvotes. It is far more powerful than it is being given credit for, so infinitely flexible and useful for any strategy.
30. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [30]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [30]
 
1. Alexander - To The World's End [25]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [14]
6 . Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [23]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [23]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [9]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [14] 17-3: not controlled by the player and the boost on liberating a city only supports snowballing; you also forfeit the city and all its yields and loyalty (RnF) implications
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [30]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [31]
30. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [30]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [31] 30+1: @BarbarianHunter: It's Monument for ancient and classical starts only, gets another building (granary or sewer) in later starts, as others get monument there as well, and Monument adds +2 culture, if your city is loyal... Saves production and reinforces settling own cities more, plus the early culture is great
 
BarbarianHunter said:
1. Alexander - To The World's End [25]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [14]
6 . Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [23]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [23]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [12]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [17]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [30]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [30] (29+1) --- I’m upvoting Qin Shi as a preemptive counterbalance to the Shanghai Chainsaw Massacre I suspect may be coming again.
30. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [30]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [30] (33-3) --- The ability adds a monument (+1 culture) to each city for free. Meh, meh. and more meh. Overvalued.
Click to expand...

You get an additional culture if the city has full loyalty. So either a free building that gives 1 culture + loyalty or 2 culture. I think the ability got stronger with R&F.

Moderator Action: Please do not post in any elimination game thread unless you are voting or correcting a vote total. You should save comments like this until your next opportunity to vote. -- Browd
 
1. Alexander - To The World's End [25]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [14+1=15] A free +3 from the start, plus secret agenda reveal justs for 1 delegation
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [23]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [23]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [9]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [14]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [30] - 3 = 27 Not really that impressive, the continent edge start for the best possible cs is luck-based in the early game (unlike France) when it matters the most.
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [31]
30. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [30]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [31]
 
1. Alexander - To The World's End [25]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [15]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [23]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [23]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [9-3=6] - Helps with building three districts I don't build often, and gives a good bonus to fighting. But! Water wars are easy to win without any bonus, and it rarely happens that the enemy armies shall fight you mostly on coast.
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [14]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [27]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [31+1=32] - I'd like to state another bonus that wasn't mentioned yet - it stacks increddibly well with Chinese UI. China has the Great Wall, and you'll need many builders to build a long and profitable wall. And you get better builders with Qin.
30. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [30]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [31]
 
1. Alexander - To The World's End [25]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [15]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [23-3=20] -- Back in high school, a popular all-state football player named Cyrus Babylon stole my girlfriend (true story ;)). It still hurts to this day, and this is my pathetic and insignificant attempt to get a bit of revenge.
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [23]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [6]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [14]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [27]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [32]
30. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [30+1=31] -- See above.
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [31]
 
Edited to correct votes
1. Alexander - To The World's End [25]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [15]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [20-3=17] Great bonus, but without a production bonus, not sure it should be this high.
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [23]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [6]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [14]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [27+1=28] really like both the combat bonus and extra amenities
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [32]
30. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [31]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [31]
 
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1. Alexander - To The World's End [25]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [15]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [20]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [23+1=24] Love how you fly through the early culture tree just for killing barbs, irrelevant city states, or neighbors too close for comfort. The Aztecs in V had this and I absolutely loved to play them.
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [6]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [14-3=11] Strong bonus, but doesn't work with wars you start. I'm also not too big on liberating cities. I prefer to war on my own terms and not react to events outside my control.
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [28]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [32]
30. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [30]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [31]
 
I'll fix it, and add my own votes:

1. Alexander - To The World's End [25]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [15]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [17]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [24 - 3 = 21] Early culture is always good, but I think this one is a bit overrated. My opinion is probably influenced by the fact that I avoid warmongering, and play on Epic speed, which leaves this one...still quite good. The competitions is getting tougher, though.
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [6 + 1 = 7] I'm not too keen on the combat bonus, but the district build discount is great.
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [11]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [28]
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [32]
30. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [31]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [31]
 
1. Alexander - To The World's End [25]
3. Catherine - Catherine's Flying Squadron [15]
6. Cyrus - Fall of Babylon [17]
12. Gorgo - Thermopylae [21]
14. Hojo Tokimune - Divine Wind [7]
17. John Curtin - Citadel of Civilization [11]
19. Montezuma - Gifts for the Tlatoani [28+1=29] +1 Combat Strength from each Luxury resource can be very powerful in the early game. If you start near another continent it gets even better. It's also possible to increase enough Luxury resources for the combat strength to have an impact even in the late game. Plus 2 extra cities benefiting from 1 amenity is nice.
26. Qin Shi Huang - The First Emperor [32-3=29] An extra charge on a builder is nothing special with R&F, but some people sill think it's a God tier ability. Plus i'd rather get down my early cities and defend myself early on when the AI is at it's most dangerous rather than build wonders. (Immortal difficulty) Getting 8-10 cities by turn 100 and keeping them is much more important than wonders.
30. Shaka - Amabutho [21]
33. Tomyris - Killer of Cyrus [31]
34. Trajan - Trajan's Column [31]

Since when is it illegal to vote for the same Civ? Isn't that the point of the thread, downvote leader abilities you don't think are the very best?
 
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