TheOverseer714
Overseer
Production rate 70%, and an extra settler. The rest can be done in the startup.
Leader Fest: An Open Succession Game
- Thread starter Spoonwood
- Start date
Alright, I see how to do this now in the editor. Now I see some more possibilities actually. How about we take Russia and make them Agricultural (so we can find a start fairly easy), Scientific, and Militaristic? We'll give them Alphabet (early SGL fishing on Writing), Warrior Code, and Bronze Working to start. To compensate for all that, we'll play Deity... but we'll make the barbarians fight at the level of Regent. Or any better ideas?
TheOverseer714
Overseer
To be fair, everyone could be Militaristic and get 3 starting techs. That could be alot of mods to make though.
CivRulesAll
The Void Beyond
- Joined
- May 1, 2007
- Messages
- 590
I may want to join this, but I am not good, as Overseer should know....
Anyway, I like the idea of taking russia. I can't even beat Regent so don't blame me if I mess up. This would be my first SG. But I do have some great luck with leaders, especially with militaristic civs. If you let me join, I'll play it, because apparently SGs are good for getting your skill up.
Anyway, I like the idea of taking russia. I can't even beat Regent so don't blame me if I mess up. This would be my first SG. But I do have some great luck with leaders, especially with militaristic civs. If you let me join, I'll play it, because apparently SGs are good for getting your skill up.
TheOverseer714
Overseer
I don't know if anyone else is still interested in this, but I've created a .biq with everyone as Militaristic and getting 3 starting techs. I was going to work on the Expansionist trait to make it better, but that is beyond my meager skills.
CivRulesAll
The Void Beyond
- Joined
- May 1, 2007
- Messages
- 590
How about for the Expansionist trait, you get an extra scout and worker?
Extra settler would be better, (EXPANSIONist), but I suppose that would be an exploit.
Extra settler would be better, (EXPANSIONist), but I suppose that would be an exploit.
29 Great Wonders, 11 Small Wonders.
GW I would not worry about, you get whatever the SGL gods grant you. SW are another story. HE, FP, MA, Pentagon are ones I would want and the IA is a maybe. You need Espionage and I often do not have that tech.
If Space is the target you would need Apollo. Someone said there are 10 parts, sounds right to me. I just cannot recall, if you need more than one of any of them. I cannot keep it straight from Civ2,3,4 and 5. I have not been able to launch without the space bug crashing me for years and it is one of my least favorite ways to win. Only culture ranks lower with me.
This totals 15 MGL's and that is with no armies created. The good news is that the later the game the easier leaders are to come by, with MA having 3 attacks and rails in place. The bad news is how to keep units around to attack and still win?
First thought is that you could leave the backwards nations till last and only prune most of the others. This may be viable, except that you would have to either stay at war or break peace over and over.
The best way I would guess is to play something like AWE on a huge or better map with more than the standard civs in the game. Not a full blown 250x250 31 civs, but maybe 180x180 with 24 civs. Now you can get all the leaders you want. You would just have to milk the end of the game to allow your nation to get the modern age techs.
Play on continents to delay your conquest/domination. The Cost Factor would be 480.
I say Russia is top dog for this run in terms of leaders in that they have Cossacks. I do not expect many blitz chances, but a GA from them would be good timing and tanks and Modern Armor are just fine for leaders, no need for Panzers. My problem with Russia is they are Expansionist. A worthless trait for AW. Germany moves ahead as they have the best starting techs you could ask for in WC and BW.
Starting out being able to make spears and archers. In a rough game, I often want an ancient age UU as I may need the GA to survive or to get the GLB. In AWE you could have trouble with the GLB as you do not have Alphabet to start.
GW I would not worry about, you get whatever the SGL gods grant you. SW are another story. HE, FP, MA, Pentagon are ones I would want and the IA is a maybe. You need Espionage and I often do not have that tech.
If Space is the target you would need Apollo. Someone said there are 10 parts, sounds right to me. I just cannot recall, if you need more than one of any of them. I cannot keep it straight from Civ2,3,4 and 5. I have not been able to launch without the space bug crashing me for years and it is one of my least favorite ways to win. Only culture ranks lower with me.
This totals 15 MGL's and that is with no armies created. The good news is that the later the game the easier leaders are to come by, with MA having 3 attacks and rails in place. The bad news is how to keep units around to attack and still win?
First thought is that you could leave the backwards nations till last and only prune most of the others. This may be viable, except that you would have to either stay at war or break peace over and over.
The best way I would guess is to play something like AWE on a huge or better map with more than the standard civs in the game. Not a full blown 250x250 31 civs, but maybe 180x180 with 24 civs. Now you can get all the leaders you want. You would just have to milk the end of the game to allow your nation to get the modern age techs.
Play on continents to delay your conquest/domination. The Cost Factor would be 480.
I say Russia is top dog for this run in terms of leaders in that they have Cossacks. I do not expect many blitz chances, but a GA from them would be good timing and tanks and Modern Armor are just fine for leaders, no need for Panzers. My problem with Russia is they are Expansionist. A worthless trait for AW. Germany moves ahead as they have the best starting techs you could ask for in WC and BW.
Starting out being able to make spears and archers. In a rough game, I often want an ancient age UU as I may need the GA to survive or to get the GLB. In AWE you could have trouble with the GLB as you do not have Alphabet to start.
After posting in this thread I started to recall many of my island Sid games. Here you could pick whatever civ you want. The leaders late in the game is a snap on a huge island map, even with less than the std number of nations.
You usually find your last nation as you are already using modern armor and can expect at least 1300 units to fight. The first 500 or so will not get you many leaders as they tend to come in 1 or 2 waves.
You can only get 1 leader on defense. Once you go on attack you can expect to see lots of lower level defenders to smash and your armies can protect your attackers. The AI tends to not have bombers at this stage as they are maxed out.
I usually just roll 20-30 MA armies in and smash them, but no reason why you couldn't just bring a few score of MA units to leader fish. The hard parts are 1- survive till you can take down the first civ 2- it is a lot of work to kill maybe 6000-8000 units in one game, unless you trap lots of them.
Even then you will only get that done on maybe 2 civs. Prior to that you just do not have enough armies for trapping and still razing towns.
Either of these ideas are going to be a lot of tedious work and you are not certain of the out come. Especially in the event one of the AI gets to nukes.
You usually find your last nation as you are already using modern armor and can expect at least 1300 units to fight. The first 500 or so will not get you many leaders as they tend to come in 1 or 2 waves.
You can only get 1 leader on defense. Once you go on attack you can expect to see lots of lower level defenders to smash and your armies can protect your attackers. The AI tends to not have bombers at this stage as they are maxed out.
I usually just roll 20-30 MA armies in and smash them, but no reason why you couldn't just bring a few score of MA units to leader fish. The hard parts are 1- survive till you can take down the first civ 2- it is a lot of work to kill maybe 6000-8000 units in one game, unless you trap lots of them.
Even then you will only get that done on maybe 2 civs. Prior to that you just do not have enough armies for trapping and still razing towns.
Either of these ideas are going to be a lot of tedious work and you are not certain of the out come. Especially in the event one of the AI gets to nukes.
Elephantium
Malcolm was a very good cat.
This is quite the thread necromancy, vmxa!
I was thinking of doing this one, but was gone all day. Now I am not so sure I want that much work. It is not much different than many of my solo games, except the SS part. The wonders, I usually only make one at Sid, unless I get to the modern Age. AWE not making the GLB would be a big handicap with more than std players I think.
Possibly play with Emp 180x180 and not go to AW, till later. Going to have to think about the whole idea a little more. Maybe just change the variant to allow hand building wonders as SGL's are not going to be an option in the settings I would choose.
Possibly play with Emp 180x180 and not go to AW, till later. Going to have to think about the whole idea a little more. Maybe just change the variant to allow hand building wonders as SGL's are not going to be an option in the settings I would choose.
I am going to take a run at this and see how far I get. Most likely will have stops and starts as it will take 300 or more hours and I will be up in Rat41. I also will want to squeeze in a few other types of games.
Here is the original concept:
"Leader Fest: An Open Succession Game
The theme of this SG consists of trying to create as many great leaders (in Conquests) as we can and using those great leaders to their
fullest extent. To that end...
- We may *only* build great or small wonders via scientific or militaristic great leaders. In other words we can't build a great wonder
unless we have an SGL. We can't build a small wonder, unless we have an MGL or SGL to build it. This includes the Forbidden Palace. We
have to build all small wonders, except for Integrated Defense.
- We'll probably want to keep a few AIs around, if not keep almost of them all around... although we'll keep that open for discussion.
- I suggest a 60% normal, warm, 5 billion map so we have as much flat territory as possible and decent production. I don't want more
than the maximum number of tribes (in other words, not 31 tribes). But, I do suggest a huge or large map for more opponents. But, if the
term prefers a standard sized map we'll do that.
- We'll have all victory conditions enabled, but we can only win by launching the spaceship. We cannot handbuild any of the spaceship
parts. We have to MGL rush each spaceship part.
- We'll have 100 point bonus or something if we MGL rush Integrated Defense also.
- I suggest we play at a high level.. something like Demi-God or Deity, so we have more opportunities for leader farming. But, we'll do
whatever the team feels comfortable with.
- We'll play as Russia for the blitz ability of Cossacks, or as Germany for the cheaper racks and easier promotions and for the 3 attack
ability of Panzers. We'll want to do some research anyways for chances at SGLs.
1 point for each MGL.
2 points for each small wonder MGL rushed
5 points for each SGL
10 points for each Great Wonder SGL rushed
10 points for each spaceship part completed
25 extra points for MGL rushing Integrated Defense
(maybe this needs tweaked)
We'll clearly need any information about MGLs or SGLs, so please include this in your "report", but we don't need a turn-log per se.
Thoughts?"
Slight alteration to the variant for me:
Do not have to build all Small Wonders, only the ones that pertain to conquest. HE, Pentagon and MA. Any others are optional, but require a leader to build. Apollo is required for the victory is launch space ship.
Going to do this as an AWM with no change to the SGL requirements. I decided to use AWM to allow for probably no GLB, no cash stock piling with zero research and biggest of all is playing with 24 nation solo will be a big job. AWE would probably big too big for a solo game for me right now. AWE will require more combat and more time.
Will use Germany as per the previous disscussion about Russia.
Used these settings:
180x180
24 civs
continents
no barbs
5byo
CF 480
OCN 42
Dist 30
The last three are my best guess of the ratios as you move from std, large huge to 180x180. I am not sure, if the 512 town limit will be an issue or not. I would think not or at least not until I control about 90% of the land. The AI will space far enough apart to not hit the cap, until they are mostly gone. A 250x250 would cap out, before you met everyone.
This way we should not have huge chunks of dead land, other than maybe mountain ranges and vast tundra, if any exist.
Here is the original concept:
"Leader Fest: An Open Succession Game
The theme of this SG consists of trying to create as many great leaders (in Conquests) as we can and using those great leaders to their
fullest extent. To that end...
- We may *only* build great or small wonders via scientific or militaristic great leaders. In other words we can't build a great wonder
unless we have an SGL. We can't build a small wonder, unless we have an MGL or SGL to build it. This includes the Forbidden Palace. We
have to build all small wonders, except for Integrated Defense.
- We'll probably want to keep a few AIs around, if not keep almost of them all around... although we'll keep that open for discussion.
- I suggest a 60% normal, warm, 5 billion map so we have as much flat territory as possible and decent production. I don't want more
than the maximum number of tribes (in other words, not 31 tribes). But, I do suggest a huge or large map for more opponents. But, if the
term prefers a standard sized map we'll do that.
- We'll have all victory conditions enabled, but we can only win by launching the spaceship. We cannot handbuild any of the spaceship
parts. We have to MGL rush each spaceship part.
- We'll have 100 point bonus or something if we MGL rush Integrated Defense also.
- I suggest we play at a high level.. something like Demi-God or Deity, so we have more opportunities for leader farming. But, we'll do
whatever the team feels comfortable with.
- We'll play as Russia for the blitz ability of Cossacks, or as Germany for the cheaper racks and easier promotions and for the 3 attack
ability of Panzers. We'll want to do some research anyways for chances at SGLs.
1 point for each MGL.
2 points for each small wonder MGL rushed
5 points for each SGL
10 points for each Great Wonder SGL rushed
10 points for each spaceship part completed
25 extra points for MGL rushing Integrated Defense
(maybe this needs tweaked)
We'll clearly need any information about MGLs or SGLs, so please include this in your "report", but we don't need a turn-log per se.
Thoughts?"
Slight alteration to the variant for me:
Do not have to build all Small Wonders, only the ones that pertain to conquest. HE, Pentagon and MA. Any others are optional, but require a leader to build. Apollo is required for the victory is launch space ship.
Going to do this as an AWM with no change to the SGL requirements. I decided to use AWM to allow for probably no GLB, no cash stock piling with zero research and biggest of all is playing with 24 nation solo will be a big job. AWE would probably big too big for a solo game for me right now. AWE will require more combat and more time.
Will use Germany as per the previous disscussion about Russia.
Used these settings:
180x180
24 civs
continents
no barbs
5byo
CF 480
OCN 42
Dist 30
The last three are my best guess of the ratios as you move from std, large huge to 180x180. I am not sure, if the 512 town limit will be an issue or not. I would think not or at least not until I control about 90% of the land. The AI will space far enough apart to not hit the cap, until they are mostly gone. A 250x250 would cap out, before you met everyone.
This way we should not have huge chunks of dead land, other than maybe mountain ranges and vast tundra, if any exist.
I said they were best, but I would move Germany ahead in AW as the expansion trait is worthless in that format. I would also not use Russia in an island map. Continents/Pan and non AW the expansion trait and the Cossacks improve Rusia in my mind.
BTW way I got started last night and made it to about 570BC, I have had an unfortunate draw of neighbors to this point.
I have already gone to war with Brennus, Montie, Smoke and Cleo. All with UU's from nearly jump street. Two dirt cheap and 3 with 2 movement points. Gallic Sowrds, War Chariots and Jag Warriors will be a real problem as they can retreat.
Javs and GS with 2 defense as well, so going to have to stay sharp.
On the Small Wonders, which I cannot even recall all of the names, several are not normally built by me. BM as I tend to not research Sanitation or build hospitals. HQ as I do not research or use Commie. IA as I do not research Nat or Espionage in most games. I will steal Espionage, if I can.
I guess that leaves 3 that I have not even mentioned, so probably do not make them either. I would doubt that I have much of a chance for any wonders, since I need an SGL.
I may get one, but chances are I will not want to sit on it, if no wonder is available at that point as that would mean no MGL's could be created.
I have already gone to war with Brennus, Montie, Smoke and Cleo. All with UU's from nearly jump street. Two dirt cheap and 3 with 2 movement points. Gallic Sowrds, War Chariots and Jag Warriors will be a real problem as they can retreat.
Javs and GS with 2 defense as well, so going to have to stay sharp.
On the Small Wonders, which I cannot even recall all of the names, several are not normally built by me. BM as I tend to not research Sanitation or build hospitals. HQ as I do not research or use Commie. IA as I do not research Nat or Espionage in most games. I will steal Espionage, if I can.
I guess that leaves 3 that I have not even mentioned, so probably do not make them either. I would doubt that I have much of a chance for any wonders, since I need an SGL.
I may get one, but chances are I will not want to sit on it, if no wonder is available at that point as that would mean no MGL's could be created.
Around 370BC several nations started the GLB. I knew I had a messed up game at that point. I was wondering all along, if the civs I met were a bit too far advanced for this map. Now verified the Cost Fatcor was messed up.
CAII shows Construction as 533 beakers. This was a tech no one knew for sure and it had the same cost as it would for a std map. It should have been around 1067. Fixed the biq so std map has the 180 definitions.
What sucks is I had just gotten my first leader.
CAII shows Construction as 533 beakers. This was a tech no one knew for sure and it had the same cost as it would for a std map. It should have been around 1067. Fixed the biq so std map has the 180 definitions.
What sucks is I had just gotten my first leader.
I am only keeping note of highlights, but will toss in a few screens. I tend to get wrapped up in the game and forget to capture shots though.
Not real sure how this will turn out and a different tactic may be needed, we shall see.
Ok checked the CF and the culture is set to 180k to match the 180x180, so looks like we are ready to go.
1830BC:
Met Arabian scout by Berlin. They know both our techs and are up Masonry, Alpha, Pottery and CB. Dang that seems excessive for no barb huts? They have the same number of towns as we have, 3. DOW and kill scout.
1625BC:
Meet Spanish warrior and trade IW for pottery, Alpha and 6 gold. Isabel still has CB on me. DOW the polite lady. Archer kills warrior and goes elite. It is good to be Militaristic. I am wondering, if the 180 is too small for 24 nations on continents. They are making contact with each other quickly.
750BC:
Met Ghandi and do a trade and then kill his warrior. Three elites wins. I have researched Math.
550BC:
Met Mao and his settler combo. DOW and the next turn he moves the warrior/settler towards my land, next to river. I kill warrior and gain 2 slaves.
450BC:
Spain provides a spear for my 10th elite win and my first leader. Great, China finished the SoZ in 470BC. So I will soon be seeing AC units.
Pyramids Hiawatha 750BC
Colossus Brennus 1525BC
Oracle Khan 750BC
ToA underway by Mao and Isabel.
390BC:
China and Spain have at least CoL, MM, HBR, Poly and Currency. The other two have HBR. I do have horses, just not connected. All have 10-15 towns. I put one boat out to expose a little land, will reverse course in a bit.
1st is filled with swords and has 13HP.
130BC:
China has towns on the two fronts. Autorazed one with swords.
Met Enk/settler and 1st get the slaves. So add Gil to the list of friends.
110BC:
Met Wang Kon and the 1st kills spear and grabs the settler.
What is the total to this point?
Brennus, Wang, Ghandi, Mao, Isabel, Gil and Abu. I sure do not want to find anymore. I have spread to the eastern coast now. I have maybe 4 or 5 towns to back fill.
I want two more armies use to control the front, which I need to get to pushing out. Leaders are not coming right now and not even
Promotions, I think I am on a count of 12 elite wins currently (I reset with a leader).
90BC:
1st kills a Spanish combo, send 2 slaves towards the rear.
Not real sure how this will turn out and a different tactic may be needed, we shall see.
Ok checked the CF and the culture is set to 180k to match the 180x180, so looks like we are ready to go.
1830BC:
Met Arabian scout by Berlin. They know both our techs and are up Masonry, Alpha, Pottery and CB. Dang that seems excessive for no barb huts? They have the same number of towns as we have, 3. DOW and kill scout.
1625BC:
Meet Spanish warrior and trade IW for pottery, Alpha and 6 gold. Isabel still has CB on me. DOW the polite lady. Archer kills warrior and goes elite. It is good to be Militaristic. I am wondering, if the 180 is too small for 24 nations on continents. They are making contact with each other quickly.
750BC:
Met Ghandi and do a trade and then kill his warrior. Three elites wins. I have researched Math.
550BC:
Met Mao and his settler combo. DOW and the next turn he moves the warrior/settler towards my land, next to river. I kill warrior and gain 2 slaves.
450BC:
Spain provides a spear for my 10th elite win and my first leader. Great, China finished the SoZ in 470BC. So I will soon be seeing AC units.
Pyramids Hiawatha 750BC
Colossus Brennus 1525BC
Oracle Khan 750BC
ToA underway by Mao and Isabel.
390BC:
China and Spain have at least CoL, MM, HBR, Poly and Currency. The other two have HBR. I do have horses, just not connected. All have 10-15 towns. I put one boat out to expose a little land, will reverse course in a bit.
1st is filled with swords and has 13HP.
130BC:
China has towns on the two fronts. Autorazed one with swords.
Met Enk/settler and 1st get the slaves. So add Gil to the list of friends.
110BC:
Met Wang Kon and the 1st kills spear and grabs the settler.
What is the total to this point?
Brennus, Wang, Ghandi, Mao, Isabel, Gil and Abu. I sure do not want to find anymore. I have spread to the eastern coast now. I have maybe 4 or 5 towns to back fill.
I want two more armies use to control the front, which I need to get to pushing out. Leaders are not coming right now and not even
Promotions, I think I am on a count of 12 elite wins currently (I reset with a leader).
90BC:
1st kills a Spanish combo, send 2 slaves towards the rear.
Attachments
Pyramids Hiawatha 750BC
Colossus Brennus 1525BC
Oracle Khan 750BC
Lighthouse Dutch 250BC
ToA Caliph 90BC
HG Hiawatha 70BC
GW Hitties 30AD
MoM Smoke (not Smoke Jensen) 30AD
War:
Brennus, Wang, Ghandi, Mao, Isabel, Gil and Abu.
50BC:
We were informed that Hiawatha finished the HG, must have gotten a leader as it was not even started last I knew.
50AD:
Not going so well in terms of leaders. Not being able to build the HE has hurt my odds. I am on a string of 18 elite wins. China has been sending in lots of units and Spain send in a rash as well. I autoraze a Chinese town this turn for 0 gold.
GW and MoM done last turn. 8 wonders down.
The three missing small wonders are Wall St, rare to get as I do not research Econ. Iron Works, years since I built that one.
SDI which was listed as not required anyway. Hard to get in a Space game as you usually launch prior to learning.
70AD:
Still no leaders, got 3 more elites.
90AD:
1st kills 2 spears and razes Nanking. Size 5 no slaves no gold.
110AD:
e/archer kills Arabian archer and we finally get our second leader. Form 2nd and stuff 2swords in it.
Next up is an e/sword and kills an Arabian archer and we get another leader. I am torn as to HE or not. Normally I give this no thought and make that 3rd army.
I could have hand built HE and GLB, if it was allowed by now. Yeah I do not have Lit, but I would have. So I go for the 3rd army. Now I will be able to add a 4th unit. Well once I get the pentagon rushed.
So it took 19 elites to get the 2nd and 1 to get the 3rd leader, the 1st was 10. So it is going 1 for 10 so far. If my count is correct. It is easy to miss one, so it maybe be a little off, but I think it is right.
1st has 12 Koreans on their way to visit gathered around it. They have a settler trailing. Now that I cleared Nanking they may settler here.
2nd got one sword and head to Munich as that is where the Spanish had 5 unit and they is a Chinese town.
Colossus Brennus 1525BC
Oracle Khan 750BC
Lighthouse Dutch 250BC
ToA Caliph 90BC
HG Hiawatha 70BC
GW Hitties 30AD
MoM Smoke (not Smoke Jensen) 30AD
War:
Brennus, Wang, Ghandi, Mao, Isabel, Gil and Abu.
50BC:
We were informed that Hiawatha finished the HG, must have gotten a leader as it was not even started last I knew.
50AD:
Not going so well in terms of leaders. Not being able to build the HE has hurt my odds. I am on a string of 18 elite wins. China has been sending in lots of units and Spain send in a rash as well. I autoraze a Chinese town this turn for 0 gold.
GW and MoM done last turn. 8 wonders down.
The three missing small wonders are Wall St, rare to get as I do not research Econ. Iron Works, years since I built that one.
SDI which was listed as not required anyway. Hard to get in a Space game as you usually launch prior to learning.
70AD:
Still no leaders, got 3 more elites.
90AD:
1st kills 2 spears and razes Nanking. Size 5 no slaves no gold.
110AD:
e/archer kills Arabian archer and we finally get our second leader. Form 2nd and stuff 2swords in it.
Next up is an e/sword and kills an Arabian archer and we get another leader. I am torn as to HE or not. Normally I give this no thought and make that 3rd army.
I could have hand built HE and GLB, if it was allowed by now. Yeah I do not have Lit, but I would have. So I go for the 3rd army. Now I will be able to add a 4th unit. Well once I get the pentagon rushed.
So it took 19 elites to get the 2nd and 1 to get the 3rd leader, the 1st was 10. So it is going 1 for 10 so far. If my count is correct. It is easy to miss one, so it maybe be a little off, but I think it is right.
1st has 12 Koreans on their way to visit gathered around it. They have a settler trailing. Now that I cleared Nanking they may settler here.
2nd got one sword and head to Munich as that is where the Spanish had 5 unit and they is a Chinese town.
