Leader Traits Revisited

[JosEPh_II]

I didn't touch them BUT I haven't noticed any changes since Slick left. Of course, if you're referring to the last layout as he stated they would be he changed quite a bit after that and before vanishing.

Went thru the SVN for sgtslick's commits for traits. Exported to study all major revisions.

EDIT: Last Slick revision SVN 6612 Dec 1st 2013.
JosEPh

 

[JosEPh_II]

While going thru the Traits files noticed something odd, FlavorType listed Twice in the list of Flavors. Some have same values like this example:

<Flavor>
                   <FlavorType>FLAVOR_GROWTH</FlavorType>
                   <iFlavor>5</iFlavor>
               </Flavor>

This is from the Charismatic Trait.

Others have a different iFlavor value, ie. the 1st in the list may have a 3 and the next one lower in the list will have a 1.

What is the purpose of having the same FlavorType in the Flavor list Twice? Is this a copy paste mistake?

JosEPh

 

[Thunderbrd]

While going thru the Traits files noticed something odd, FlavorType listed Twice in the list of Flavors. Some have same values like this example:

<Flavor>
                   <FlavorType>FLAVOR_GROWTH</FlavorType>
                   <iFlavor>5</iFlavor>
               </Flavor>

This is from the Charismatic Trait.

Others have a different iFlavor value, ie. the 1st in the list may have a 3 and the next one lower in the list will have a 1.

What is the purpose of having the same FlavorType in the Flavor list Twice? Is this a copy paste mistake?

JosEPh

Probably. Might have been intended to be set to a different flavor but wasn't redefined after pasted in?

I'd like to reiterate that I AM working on my traits here. Been chipping away at them. If you're looking to redefine the core that's fine because my set should probably go into an optional set anyhow. But I've been working on this for some weeks now so if we happen to coincide with our efforts I don't want you feeling like I'm trying to bulldoze ya. It's probably going to be a month or two before they are complete still. It's a time filler project more than anything.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I was looking to see what I could do for the Barbarian Trait for culture when I spotted several traits with duplicate Flavors. Hence the question, Intentional or typos? I lean to the typo but wanted confirmation.

So if I remove the duplicates should not be a real problem right?

JosEPh

 

[Thunderbrd]

I was looking to see what I could do for the Barbarian Trait for culture when I spotted several traits with duplicate Flavors. Hence the question, Intentional or typos? I lean to the typo but wanted confirmation.

So if I remove the duplicates should not be a real problem right?

JosEPh

It's very meaningful what those are set at for the sake of Developing Leaders. But if you're finding a lot like that then it's probably already pretty well out of whack so it probably won't really matter much. My traits will solve that - I have a method for determining what those should be - it's not arbitrary. If you want to fix the duplicates I can't imagine it'll hurt anything really.

 

[strategyonly]

I was looking to see what I could do for the Barbarian Trait for culture when I spotted several traits with duplicate Flavors. Hence the question, Intentional or typos? I lean to the typo but wanted confirmation.

So if I remove the duplicates should not be a real problem right?

JosEPh

Where are u seeing this, ??

 

[JosEPh_II]

Where are u seeing this, ??

CIV4TraitInfos.xml. The one I posted is from Charismatic. 2 identical growth Flavors with same value.
JosEPh

 

[strategyonly]

CIV4TraitInfos.xml. The one I posted is from Charismatic. 2 identical growth Flavors with same value.
JosEPh

Oh, ok, u said something about Barb so i looked there, thats why i asked, but YES the second "Growth" needs to be deleted // Do u want to do it or do u want me to do it??

 

[JosEPh_II]

Done this morning, plus some other fixes in Traits.

Still lots of questions though. Like why does Trait Politician have a -35 UpkeepModifier? Or Expansive had a +20 Health, I reduced it to +2. Way overblown for any Trait to provide +20 or even +10 health or Happiness. These may have been typos, at least I hope they were. Otherwise pretty outlandish values for a leader trait.

And there were 2 Seafaring Traits (in 2 different locations). The 2nd one only had an AND Dependency. So I added the AND dependency to the Main Seafaring Trait and removed the 2nd.

Never realized some of these files were such a mess.

JosEPh

 

[Thunderbrd]

Like why does Trait Politician have a -35 UpkeepModifier?

That's a % tag. -35% upkeep (civic upkeep) isn't that impacting I don't think.

Or Expansive had a +20 Health, I reduced it to +2.

Sounds like a bug to me, yeah. Sheesh.

And there were 2 Seafaring Traits (in 2 different locations). The 2nd one only had an AND Dependency. So I added the AND dependency to the Main Seafaring Trait and removed the 2nd.

Were there any differences between them otherwise?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

And there were 2 Seafaring Traits (in 2 different locations). The 2nd one only had an AND Dependency. So I added the AND dependency to the Main Seafaring Trait and removed the 2nd.

JosEPh

Probably not a good idea. The And Dependency means that the values in the second overwrite the ones in the first if the thing in the dependency is in game. It is a way to allow variations based on what modules are turned on. Merging them into one means you wont have the Seafaring trait in games without that module.

Looking at my copy what you have done is you have removed the Seafaring trait if Clockpunk (I think) is not in the game.

 

[strategyonly]

@Joe:
<TraitInfo>
<Type>TRAIT_SEAFARING</Type>
<AndDependencyTypes>
<DependencyType>BUILDING_NEMO_ACADEMY</DependencyType>
</AndDependencyTypes>
<BuildingProductionModifierTypes>
<BuildingProductionModifierType>
<BuildingType>BUILDING_NEMO_ACADEMY</BuildingType>
<iBuildingProductionModifier>100</iBuildingProductionModifier>
</BuildingProductionModifierType>
</BuildingProductionModifierTypes>
</TraitInfo>

U deleted Seafaring (twice) but left the dependencies in there, and now the SVN is incompatible??

Also the first line needs to be in there i believe??

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@Joe: </TraitInfo>
<TraitInfo>
<Type>TRAIT_SEAFARING</Type>
<AndDependencyTypes>
<DependencyType>BUILDING_NEMO_ACADEMY</DependencyType>
</AndDependencyTypes>
<BuildingProductionModifierTypes>
<BuildingProductionModifierType>
<BuildingType>BUILDING_NEMO_ACADEMY</BuildingType>
<iBuildingProductionModifier>100</iBuildingProductionModifier>
</BuildingProductionModifierType>
</BuildingProductionModifierTypes>
</TraitInfo>

U deleted Seafaring but left the dependencies in there, and now the SVN is incompatible??

It was not a duplicate but an adjustment to be applied if the Nemo Academy or ClockPunk being in the game or not. It needs to be put back the way it was.

 

[JosEPh_II]

@SO,
I didn't have any errors when I tested it before committing.

@DH,
Perhaps a Comment above the 2nd Seafaring explaining Why might have been appropo don't you think? How else was I supposed to know?

All I did was delete the top lines from the 2nd Seafaring and then add the AND dependency to the bottom of the 1st.

Not A Big Deal ppl! Easy to fix. Sheesh!

JosEPh :/

 

[strategyonly]

@SO,
I didn't have any errors when I tested it before committing.

@DH,
Perhaps a Comment above the 2nd Seafaring explaining Why might have been appropo don't you think? How else was I supposed to know?

All I did was delete the top lines from the 2nd Seafaring and then add the AND dependency to the bottom of the 1st.

Not A Big Deal ppl! Easy to fix. Sheesh!

JosEPh :/

Yeah it worked for me also , but when i re-started my PC it picked up the errors, also something about "classes" missing . .

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@SO,
I didn't have any errors when I tested it before committing.

@DH,
Perhaps a Comment above the 2nd Seafaring explaining Why might have been appropo don't you think? How else was I supposed to know?

All I did was delete the top lines from the 2nd Seafaring and then add the AND dependency to the bottom of the 1st.

Not A Big Deal ppl! Easy to fix. Sheesh!

JosEPh :/

There is a general maintainace philosophy at issue here - should the adjustment go in the main file or should it go in the optional mod. Some say the first some say the second. The problem with the first is as you say but people don't always see or read the documentation. Did you know that there is comments to the effect in the Tech Tree XML? People tend to go right to the place they want to fix and miss the comments. The problem with the second is people will change the main file and then see no affect in game because they don't know about the mod amendments.

The existence of the And or Or dependency tag is supposed to be enough to tell you that this is an update/amendment not the main definition.

Secondly having comments in the body of the XML makes it very difficult to track down those hard to find errors since you can no longer comment out half of the code to find out which half is causing the problem.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Done.

Any more knuckle rapping with the yardstick need to be done now Sister Mary Elizabeth? I won't do it again, promise.

JosEPh

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Done.

Any more knuckle rapping with the yardstick need to be done now Sister Mary Elizabeth? I won't do it again, promise.

JosEPh

If I came over grumpy I am sorry, I had a bad night last night and need to get to some appointments real soon now

 

[strategyonly]

Still get a "class" missing and does not work . .that usually meaning a "line" is missing someplace . .

 

[JosEPh_II]

Fixed.

JosEPh