Leaders and Traits

[Dr Turkleton]

First off, sorry if there has been something like this posted. I did a few searches based on what I'm asking in this thread and didn't find much/anything that actually helped with what I'm wondering.

So, I've lurked the forums for a bit and read threads about basically abusing traits. (Example, being Philosophical and ending up with 923840912384 Great Persons, Organized never going into debt, etc.. Of course, this may just be simple things you can do in the game I haven't figured out yet.)

So right now I'm wondering if there are any tips on how I can make the most out of all of the traits, if someone would be kind enough to tell me how. (Aggressive and Protective I already have figured out, surprisingly)

The next thing I'm wondering is who would be the best leader/civilization for me. My play style is that I like to get some strong infrastructure early on and then gradually take over my neighbor, as opposed to one giant death push. (Please don't suggest HC. I don't want it to be TOO easy, since I play on Chieftan )

 

[lymond]

First off, if you really want to improve your game, I would focus more on learning to play the map, some key basics like enough workers and worker management, and building your empire/economy. Traits and UUs/UBs come secondary to all that. At Chieftan and really up to Noble, you can absolutely blow away the AIs with a few key basics grasped.

Besides the searches, also check the War Academy here for several good articles that will answer many of your questions.

As for traits, as I mentioned, you can win with any of them. Traits like Creative, Financial and Spiritual are, IMO, crutch traits for new players. The reason is that they give immediate bonuses that are realized regardless of what you do or how good your game is. Creative gives you free border pops and cheap Libraries, Financial boosts your commerce significantly in the early game, especially if you cottage but also leveraging some coastal tiles early, and Spiritual allows for no anarchy on Civics switches.

Philosophy is a great trait. However, the problem with newer players is that don't know how to leverage the trait or what to do with Great People. It takes time, so I don't recommend it at first.


Organize is a great trait but it's value is felt more on higher level when the maintenance costs are really jacked up. Can't go wrong with it really and the cheap buildings, but it's not close to a top trait for new players on low levels.

Charismatic is IMO the best overall Military trait. For one it provides an economic boost that no other military trait provides with the extra happiness. Extra happiness means more early growth - more cottages, more mines or more specialists you can work.

Expansive is my personal favorite trait. It provides a production bonus on 2 of the most important things in the game - Workers and Granaries. However, for new players that might not yet understand the full importance of these items, the trait may not be as valuable. However, I do recommend it in combo with one of the big 3 crutch traits.

IND is a good trait and there are some very good leaders with this trait. However, it means an emphasis on wonder whoring which may not be conducive to an ideal learning experience. There are other things that go along with wonder focus game that takes a lot of practice.

IMP is a so so trait. You definitely want a good trait in combination. Think Cathy with her Creative trait. She is a strong leader.

Agg and Protective just plain suck. However, aggressive is okay for simple warring early if you can early rush.

Oh...there were some polls done on the best/worst traits. Lots of discussion there. I would search on those terms.

 

[Dr Turkleton]

Thanks for your quick explanation on the traits. Guess I should of done my search a bit better because I probably would've found that poll. I have SOME key basics down, but I always end up losing because I wait to build my army up till the last minute.

Off-topic, gonna go watch your Civ4 videos.

 

[lymond]

ha...well, I hope you can get something out of them. I need to do more

You mention building your units at the last minute. I guess that is all relative and I would need the context to understand what you are trying to do. Although you want some semblance of an army at all times, as far as getting the big one out for a war or defense, it is really a matter of understanding how to do so in a short time. Whipping is obviously a great way to do that early, but you need to learn to do it effectively and how to max the hammer overflow. Later, things like Drafting and US can get you up an army very quickly.

I would really need to see one of your games though to understand. If you do that post them over on the S&T forum.

 

[Dr Turkleton]

I have no idea how to put a game up, so that won't be happening until I figure out how. (Probably on the forums somewhere, or I could just google it.)

And what I try to do in my games so far is just neglect an army and work on infrastructure until I get to rifling. Then I just go try to kill my neighbor. Most of the time I die before I get to rifling, and I'm too stubborn to try something else. (Because I don't know anything else, lol)

I guess why I want to get to rifling is because most of the time I play the guys that have the Musketman as their UU - France, England, and the Ottomans(?)

 

[lymond]

attaching a file is pretty simple really. Just click the "Go Advanced" button below and either use the paper clip icon or the "Manage Attachment" button at the bottom.

Yeah, not much I can say on your game or that strategy at this point other than I do see a lot of fail with it. However, Rifling is not necessary a bad time to war and is often a target war launch for experience players - or Curs/Calvary or Cannons. Not sure what any AI's UUs would have to do with any of this. If you prep for war correctly that should not matter and Muskets suck. (Englands UU is a Rifle) Probably another big factor for you is handling Diplo properly, which is one of the hard aspects of the game. Regardless you need to keep your Power rating decent throughout the game or you will just be a target for many AIs

 

[Dr Turkleton]

Yeah, if by diplo you mean leaders being annoyed, pleased, friendly, etc... I tend to just turn down everyone when they ask me to join a war or cancel deals. Then they declare war on me a few turns later (Shaka sucks :/)

And you're wanting me to upload one of my games... Does this game actually keep replays (Literally just bought this game last week, so I'm probably asking stupid stuff)

 

[Farm Boy]

If you have had the game a week, you are asking relevant and helpful questions. There is a ton of information on this forum, so much it is difficult to digest it all. A thread like this for making queries as you come up with them is definitely appropriate. I would suggest posting a slow-playing game here and soliciting advice if you are up for it. Upload a save and take a screenshot of your start and post it here before you move anything. Wait for advice on settling/scouting/tech paths and play 30 turns-ish. Post again and wait for advice. Continue. It takes a while, but you will be amazed at the information that comes out.

For a "jack of all trades" leader that is also good at setting up infrastructure, I would recommend my favorite, Mehmed. Fair to good UU and UB. Traits are excellent and flexible for a wide variety of situations. Neither will pigeonhole your play into a set or "crutched" strategy.

 

[CaF]

I'd say on Chieftain you can really get away with playing a random leader, then checking your leader's traits and go from there. If you get protective, then build more archers than usual. If you get aggressive, then be it. if you get organized, then try to go for sailing (if coastal) or code of laws relatively early.

If you really wanted THE leader to play as a beginner, I'd say the Khmer is the way to go. Sury's traits deal with your standard beginner's biggest problems: city placement/border pop problem and worker shortage.

But this is no rocket science. Learning by doing is the way to go. The best way to improve your game is probably posting a game on the strategy forum. Update it every 20-30 turns with a new save and ask questions. A lot of us have nothing to do, so we answer everything.

 

[Farm Boy]

Only reason I would avoid Sury is the creative trait. If looking to improve all areas of game at once, creative is useful but warps city-placement considerations in the early game. Early culture generation and first/second ring resource setting at important details to weigh in immediate/long term payout. I played a lot of creative leaders starting out and had a hard time adjusting to needing either religion-spread or a monument in new cities.

Granted, Organized can skew cost considerations with # of cities to settle, but on lower difficulty levels it shouldn't throw you too much. I wholeheartedly agree on Expansive being a solid all-around trait.

 

[Dr Turkleton]

If I was going to post my game and whatnot, do I need to make a new topic in Strategy and Tips? Or could I just continue this thread?

And thanks for reassuring me that I'm not asking stupid things. I'm used to posting on forums and if you post a question about one thing that's been answered in an FAQ, you get raged at.

 

[Farm Boy]

Strategy and tips will probably get more hits from people interested in that sort of thing.

 

[Dr Turkleton]

Well, looks like I'm going to head over to Strategy and Tips (probably should have went there first lol). Thanks for the help everyone!

and, one last question: Should I just open up the thread with a screenshot of my start and basically asking for guidance

 

[lymond]

A starting screenshot is good, plus a list of the game options. Of course, provide the start save. Play in short intervals with a report and new save/screenshots. Some folks may play along so you can compare your game.

 

[Dr Turkleton]

Alright, going to make a thread in Strategy and Tips in a few, will edit the link in if any of you want to check it out.

P.S - Watching your MS Mehmed videos, you say you needed more catapults, I probably would've tried to attack Gandhi with 5 swordsmen, lol

 

[lymond]

P.S - Watching your MS Mehmed videos, you say you needed more catapults, I probably would've tried to attack Gandhi with 5 swordsmen, lol

and the education commences....

 

[Dr Turkleton]

By the way lymond, since I'm about to make the thread on Strategy and Tips, would you suggest that I go ahead and download the mod that you're using? I'm probably going to anyways, just wondering if sooner is better than later. (In case it drastically changes anything)

 

[Farm Boy]

You do not need to, but I would download B.U.G.(Beyond the sword Unaltered Gameplay) from the mod section. It is so good it should have been included in the game from the start.

 

[lymond]

^^^ yep...use BUG and BULL in custom assets. It will load up each game and makes it easy for others to use your save. (BUG as stand-alone would conflict)

BULL includes instructions on how to copy the files into custom assets and it marries with the BUG mod. BULL adds even more unaltered features.

Another great mod that combines both is the BAT mod from the same team. I use it for most of my personal games. It is stand-alone so not everyone will be able to load BAT saves, so I would use BUG/BULL in custom assets for forum games.

BAT is BUG/BULL plus some graphic enhancements.

Also, if you don't have it, try out the Blue Marble mod. It makes the game look nicer.

 

[Dr Turkleton]

Also, if you don't have it, try out the Blue Marble mod. It makes the game look nicer.

I'm guessing Blue Marble wouldn't provide any issues if I'm using it in one save and someone not using it also uses that save, since it just changes the way the game looks?