Leaders: Part 2

Some of the last ones I filled out are very passive (like the Coffee House or Folkskola), but we're short on ideas, so I figure we can try them. We can always come back to make things more interesting later if we get better ideas. :)
 
Some of the last ones I filled out are very passive (like the Coffee House or Folkskola), but we're short on ideas, so I figure we can try them. We can always come back to make things more interesting later if we get better ideas. :)

So tell me, flat science is better than an earlier public school*, because...? Free Happiness on Aquaeducts is better than "yield on river" because... That's what I'm missing here a bit. Don't want to complain too much though, it's a great job you're doing ;)

And did I miss how the Ottoman UA is supposed to work?

But yes, there's a clear way forward though I see a few points that are being discussed and most probably will be brought up afterwards as well ;) No harm in that.
 
I think the Ottoman UA works by say, giving x/10 of the cost of a building in gold. I don't know if that's supposed to be, or it how it will be, funneled through the capital, but even just as raw gold, it's an enticement for wide growth and expansion.

I'm not sure what the yield on river will be rather than happy myself and I think a public school available on a different and potentially earlier tech line would be better than some raw science, particularly if they're supposed to be tall-diplomatic.
 
The last few proposals to fill in the blanks are not ideal solutions. I just can't think of better alternatives right now. The flat science comes on an earlier public school, and aqueducts with yield on river is better than free happiness on aqueducts (in the sense that it better fits the criteria for fun leader bonuses).

Ottoman Tribute sends gold to the capital from buildings constructed outside the capital.

Say our capital has a Market and Mint. We build something outside the capital, which sends 40 gold to the capital, multiplies by the buildings, and adds 60 gold to our stored national gold supply.
 
Nothing much useful to say, other than the proposed changes look excellent and exciting. Can't wait.

Actually, on the topic of the Austrians, who I do not like because of their UA, is there a way (or desire) to tone down the unhappiness hit you get from annexing allied city states? Basically it's just like taking them via conquest, which is why I find it next to useless as a UA. In my opinion, it should be much closer to unhappiness generated by one of your own cities.
 
Austria:
As Austrian, very OK flavourwise. Might be a bit too much lategame-focused. The UU probably won't decide any game. I guess the promotion sticks on upgrade? The path to victory is very unique. Not sure if Austria can achieve a diplomatic victory better than anyone else? I guess the annexed CS's won't vote? I this case, Austria is probably ideal for wide, peaceful play with the difference that you won't found as many cities yourself but "buy them". Considering that many CS's have very good spots, this might be very strong. However, there a re many open questions. Does Austria get the 50turn-bonus from the honor tree if they annex a city state by marriage? Are we allowed to leave an annexed CS as puppet to have a better chance for diplomatic victory? Many open questions here!

As far as I know, Austria is horrible for a Diplomatic Victory. The City States you diplomatically marry, become cities of your own empire and lose their CS-status. It's like taking out a CS from the game, lowering the treshhold for Diplomatic Victory. Even if another civ conquers the city from you, it still won't become a City State again (no liberation possible). I'd also say Austria doesn't get the 50 turn bonus, but I haven't tried it yet.

The strength of the ability lies in that the CS are relatively cheap and come with an army. Buy a CS on another continent and you got yourself a strong foothold and a good part of an army to conquer. The problem is Austria needs gold for that and doesn't have a gold buff.

All in all, it's a very flavourful, active and unique ability, but it is quite imbalanced in the end...
 
Yeah that's the worst in my opinion, mitsho - that the city states which Austria annexes cannot be liberated when conquered. Once they're married into the empire they can never be a city state again. Very, very sad. :(
 
Just to give my two cents: I'm glad that there's still one civ in the game which will get a bonus from Natural Wonders :) Always liked trying to find them and settle them.
 
While Attila might be balanced, I think his UA needs a buff, not the horse archer part but the barb camp part. Askia does it better(he gets 300 instead of Attilas 200 Gold). While it can likely stay unchanged, because its already pretty balanced. If you would want to change it, my way would be.

Götterdämmerung (Note, while not the best name, I find it quite fitting for him personally, also ties in with UA)
Starts out with Horse Archer. Does 25% more damage to wounded units. Gains gold for Units killed.(stacks with the honor policy that allows you to get gold from killed units)

My reasoning is that he was the one who showed the end of Rome was near, only being stopped right at the Gates, for not even a Military reason. He was one of the many but one of the larger reasons that in the end Rome fell, with all his attacking. (While there were other tribes, the Vandels the Franks ect...I condsider him the "Top" barbarian killer of Rome in general.)
 
NM China question can't read. derp

For Germany is it say medieval units I research longswords first, the first unit is a powerful prototype? or all longswords are powerful prototype?

Also loving all those changes... choices so many choices.

One moar thing, I know I asked this before but is it possible for some of those civs to have more personalities. Say some of the expansionists will ally CS and attack CS so this game they will attack religious, and merchant CS but friend the other types. This is chosen randomly in new games. And or some of them will just ally or others will just attack CS. Expansionists should be interacting with CS too.
 
Lets see here. We want the Leaders to reflect historically, have their Unique Abilities/Units/Buildings highlight their 'personality and be part of an overall balanced matrix where we don't have too many of a certain flavour.

Ok. My 2 cents worth.

Nation - Theme - Uniques - Personality - Victory
Germany - Engineering - 2 Science - Coalition - Military

Victory type should match more with the other areas - Scientific victory

Iroquois - Power - 2 or 3 Military - Expansion - Science
Victory type should be Military. Swap these two.
 
Sorry in the 2nd spoiler in op personalities some civs have one check mark, was hoping for those civs to get 1-2 more checks for other personalities.
 
Great to see that the civ unique aspect changes are going in the right direction. :)

One thing though. Polynesia don't have a very good synergy. Their UA encourages expansionism since you have access to areas others can't settle. On the other hand their UI is more like a tall bonus (extra culture). And their UU is frankly quite boring & weak. Would love to see some changes.

Expansion+defence theme sounds good for Polynesia. Moai culture boosts sound a bit out of place though. Could be changed to a expansion boost for better synergy & fun. And how much is Maori warriors supposed to be buffed?

Sent from my One V using Tapatalk 2
 
For Germany is it say medieval units I research longswords first, the first unit is a powerful prototype? or all longswords are powerful prototype?

No, the first time you research a unit of a unit line, you receive a free and superpowered copy of that one. So when you research Archery, you get a free Archer with a strength promo (I assume) that stays on upgrade for a superpowered Crossbow etc. ... This means that you will have one elite unit of each type. It's certainly a unique ability that makes you play differently. It also makes you a very strong starter since you start with a superpowered scout and warrior. Hmm, might be interesting to move the "soldat" free prototype to a swordman. (Or combine it with another ability and let it start at the Medieval Era). But in any case, we need to try it out first ;)

One moar thing, I know I asked this before but is it possible for some of those civs to have more personalities. Say some of the expansionists will ally CS and attack CS so this game they will attack religious, and merchant CS but friend the other types. This is chosen randomly in new games. And or some of them will just ally or others will just attack CS. Expansionists should be interacting with CS too.

That would certainly be interesting to have them only attack certain types. On the other hand, what good does it do them when there's not CS of the right type in the proximity. Aside from that, I feel that in later versions, some civs do attack too many City States. It's good to take out one or two of them, but after that, real civs are the meatier meal they should go for imho.

Agree that the distinction between Expansionists (Wide?) and Diplomats (Tall?) is a bit wonky. Wide Empires often fare better with allying city states as they have a larger area for fullfilling quests like ressources, roads, discovery, etc.

Hmm, really need to go over those personalities once when the definite leader bonuses stand ;) (so pretty much now ;))

EDIT: @Thal, could you list the start biases for the leaders as well. Might be helpful/important in determining the Leader Personalities more.

EDIT2: I can confirm that Austria gets the "conquest" bonuses for diplomatically marrying city states. And the turn of trouble, incl. lost buildings, despite getting all the units of the city states seems headscratching as well. I tend to now completely losing that UA, it is unbalanced and it leads to strange gameplay. After all, to use the ability, Austria needs gold which it doesn't have any bonuses for... Staying with the thematic, I could see giving Austria the ability for "free" influence, aking to the opportunity system we have. Say, every x turns, Austria gets the ability to marry into a city state and either get freebies for them (thematically) or influence on them.
 
@Thal
When do you expect the leader changes to be released? Seems like its almost finished and would love to be able to play around with it this weekend as its the first weekend I've had free in a while :)

Can't wait to try out all the new civs!
 
Nation - Theme - Uniques - Personality - Victory
Germany - Engineering - 2 Science - Coalition - Military

Victory type should match more with the other areas - Scientific victory

Iroquois - Power - 2 or 3 Military - Expansion - Science
Victory type should be Military. Swap these two.

Germany I think makes sense as a scientific military effort, where their expansion is potentially useful for science because the uniques will add to science. Their UU, like the Iroquois, is aggressive, but their UA is pretty clearly militaristic where the Iroquois isn't.

I think a swap for Carthage and Iroquois makes more sense, if we're looking to get someone out of the military business.
 
Top Bottom