TBF I think they're different people. I loved Civ6's art style from the moment I saw it (I did criticize Taftian TR, but that wasn't an art style issue and got fixed).
In civ 6 we got one leader throwing a childish tantrum, now we'll get two leaders throwing childish tantrums simultaneously. It feels undignified to watch.
TBF I think they're different people. I loved Civ6's art style from the moment I saw it (I did criticize Taftian TR, but that wasn't an art style issue and got fixed).
I like CivVI artstyle a lot. Never understood the people who used those "Civ V terrain" mods. That looked dull and boring.
The artstyle of the leader models allowed the animators to use exaggerated animations, which gives them so much more character. Gilgamesh is always your bro and Cleo just tries to wrap you around her finger. Kristina is such a nerd and Montezuma is totally just hangry all the time. They all have character. And everything just fits together so well.
And that's not what we saw in the CivVII trailer in my opinion.
I like CivVI artstyle a lot. Never understood the people who used those "Civ V terrain" mods. That looked dull and boring.
The artstyle of the leader models allowed the animators to use exaggerated animations, which gives them so much more character. Gilgamesh is always your bro and Cleo just tries to wrap you around her finger. Kristina is such a nerd and Montezuma is totally just hangry all the time. They all have character. And everything just fits together so well.
And that's not what we saw in the CivVII trailer in my opinion.
My first impression was that I liked it. I assume from certain footage/gifs I've seen that are other situations in which we get the "classic" leader facing the screen view, but in most instances it's this new one.
I think I prefer seeing the leader I'm playing as; the leaders aren't talking to *me* anyway.
I am not a fan VA for Civ and didn't think it was neccessary and Civ VI was especially annoying when they are mad at you for not following their agenda keeps repeating. But for this with two leaders, I think it is going to be pretty cool.
Best is still Civ IV, it felt more interactive, and seeing their reactions and comments to what they think of different leaders was always funny. And such characters as Montezuma and Gilgamesh being furious at ridicoulous trades and demands offered to them
Seems to me like the reason to show your own leader is so you remember who you were playing as, since you can combine any leader with any civ(s). This is critically important, because your civ changes over the course of the game but your leader stays the same, and people were complaining that they felt a lack of identity in Humankind. Humankind also puts your leader on the diplomacy screen, though, so maybe it doesn't help with that last part... but it should help you keep track of which leader you have, since that has gameplay implications and isn't shown visually anywhere else!
Seems to me like the reason to show your own leader is so you remember who you were playing as, since you can combine any leader with any civ(s). This is critically important, because your civ changes over the course of the game but your leader stays the same, and people were complaining that they felt a lack of identity in Humankind. Humankind also puts your leader on the diplomacy screen, though, so maybe it doesn't help with that last part... but it should help you keep track of which leader you have, since that has gameplay implications and isn't shown visually anywhere else!
You will see your own leader in the leader attribute screen when you upgrade them. You will see them!! You don't need to see them in the diplomacy Vs Screen.
I'm sorry if I sound awfully critical but it feels like this aspect gets worse every game, and I do want to be constructive for the Devs.
Enjoying the huge palace backdrops of Civ5 where you're personally invited to talk to them, each backdrop is unique and fitted to the leader to then blandish backdrops of Civ6 and mindless personalities to now Mortal Kombat with waving arm animations, looking like one of those Pixar knockoffs.
I'm hopeful they'll fix the aspects about it like Lighting, Model, Textures, but it's all just downgrades that they get you to be content with so you'll accept this new monetisation model that lets them pump out new leaders with minimal effort (/rant)
Has any of you guys seen the newest Mortal Kombat game? Because as absurd as it sounds the new leader interactions evoke that pre-duel imagery for me.
Which is really lame and misbegotten design choice - nobody cares about two leader models facing each other as they are not going to engage in real dialogue anyway, I want them talking to me with their homeland in the background.
I fail to understand how Firaxis could think ever decreasing backgrounds are going to impress us, it seems fairly obvious that we are always going to be bitter over civ5 standard
EDIT
Now I have realized that the reason we have no backgrounds is clearly because leaders can be disconnected from civs.
Thankfully this means I can blame new leader on civ switching system, I was afraid this game is going to have more than one downside!
This is my biggest and so far my only complaint with what has been revealed with 7. When I pick a Civ to play, I'm replacing that leader associated with the Civ. They're gone. They are reduced to a numerical/play style buff in the background. When I interact with leaders I want them dealing with me. I want to mock them or first bump them digitally if they're an ally. As currently presented, I'm now in third person view watching a vignette, and having someone I've replaced interacting on my behalf. It will be jarring.
Not a big issue for me either way, but to the extent it matters I’m a bit torn.
You know, not in a ‘I’m all out of faith, this is how I feel, lying naked on the floor’ kinda way. More in a ‘Toby v Tom’ kinda way[0].
As in, for Civ 6, it did sometimes bother me in Civ 6 that you rarely see your own leader animation during play. So, seeing leaders side by side is kinda cool, because you get to see your own leader more.
But at the same time, man, I loved it when Curtin totally lost his cool and starts throwing his hat around and shouting at you. And Philip going ape was magnificent, whether declaring war or dramatically conceding defeat.
The idea of leaders addressing each other doesn't bother me too much, but the sideways perspective does not work for me (and I'm not the only one it seems).
Master of Orion 1 also had a diplomacy screen where the other races' ambassadors would address you directly and that one had more impact because the angles worked:
With every leader model being fully rendered in 3D, it should not be too hard to shuffle the perspective a bit so that it matches an actual conversation, and not a side-scrilling brawler console game.
I have watched an interview with Ed Beach on rocketbeans where he explained why they change cultures (not civilizations) during the game but keep the same leader. The goals behind the changes for Civ 7 all sound very reasonable which made me positive again after I was hugely worried about Civ switching. He says that people do not feel like they are playing against the Aztecs or Macedonia but against Montezuma and Alexander. I dont fully agree with him in regards to who I am playing but I definitely do not consider me playing Hatshepsut or whoever I chose at the beginning. I consider myself to be the leader of the civilization that I choose which is why I am skeptical in regards to civilization changes during the game. Probably I even consider myself to be the civilization. There is no need for me to see my avatar during the game. If I interact with an opponent I want them to interact with me and not with some avatar. I want Augustus to yell at me and not at someone else. It takes away the immersion. My fear is that although there are a lot of very promising changes in Civ 7 the immersion will be gone as I and my civilization will not be the center of the game anymore. I hope I am wrong, though. I was already disappointed by Humankind and Millenia who both had no emotional attachment so Ara and Civ7 are the only chances left.
Yes, maybe they get stale after a while. But you won't make ten playthroughs if the leaders are a total turn off in the first place...
Or in other words: Start high, end mediocre; start low, end worse...
You see, I play with lots of mods, almost a 100 for Civ5, and they have leader scenes of varying quality, some of them very good and fitting with the general aesthetic, some of them are just a copy paste of some random leader art onto a real photograph, none of them are animated. I still enjoy them because these new civs are fun to play with and increase the diversity of the roster
I don't dislike the idea of visually involving the leader you chose into the gameplay a bit more. I think it could be a nice little change from 5, where you never saw your own leader at all, and 6, where you only saw them if you needed to remind yourself of your civ and leader's traits.
But they need to do something about that diplomacy screen. Ideally I'd like to be directly addressed by the leaders again, but I don't know how possible that is with the animations seemingly being tailored for that showdown-style setup, like the footage where Augustus turns away from Hatshepsut to make that fake "oh i'm so pure and devoted" look at a nonexistent audience. But what I hope they can do something about is the amount of dead space between the leaders, and the result being that your focus is instead drawn to whatever part of the map you were looking at before engaging in diplomacy. Or rather, before whatever leader you chose started engaging in diplomacy on your behalf.
I will say that I like the animations, though. They're very expressive.
I agree with him in terms of against, but he also said he thinks that's how players experience playing as a leader, and on that I disagree. I'm playing my civ against other leaders, not my leader against other leaders. As someone else said, my leader is a series of bonuses and traits once I start playing.
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