Leaders U Hate
- Thread starter MarigoldRan
- Start date
Zechnophobe
Strategy Lich
Japan for me. You get terrible traits when you play as Toku, and playing against him can cause games to stagnate due to his 'no open borders' issues. Did he spend a little bit too much time with Father Sasuke as a kid or something? Why you not give open borders?
MarigoldRan
WARLORD
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2011
- Messages
- 2,349
Historically it makes a lot of sense. Tokugawa was the dude that closed Japan off from foreign influence for 200+ years.
The civ developers know their history.
The civ developers know their history.
Shaka is imba good! His UU = guaranteed early choke/kill, unstoppable pillager & worker stealer, and has access to shock/cover with only a (cheap) Ikhanda, which is an awesome UB. Expansive also very nice in the early game for whipping out granaries and workers.
Both Mongolian leaders are Agg, but creative > imperialistic and it's really not close.
Great wall only multiplies GG points within your own borders, where warfare really shouldn't be going on.
No it's not. 1 pop whip rax allows you to get started building stables while you research archery that much sooner.
Unless you're just using the enemy as a tool to farm experience and GGs =)
Turquoiside
Emperor
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2008
- Messages
- 1,552
Actually, Tokugawa's successors closed Japan. Compared to those before and after him Tokugawa was relatively tolerant of foreign interaction for a good deal of his reign.
AJ11
Emperor
Precisely
Come to papa, my little pretty stack of bad guys...
Speaking of Alex vs Peri, I am playing a game now where I have a Japanese Alex and a Persian Peri. Alex is curbstomping Peri in the Classical Age with swords, axes and HA, from across half a continent...! It is ugly and brutal.
I voted Toku because he has the hardest start in the game. His starting techs on certain maps are terrible which makes it hard in the beginning especially since the other traits do not help either at building or growing. However late game Toku is amazing. Samurai are amazing and I count the rifles also as an unique unit. But still every time I play Toku I have a hard start. However Toku on Civ Rev on the PS3 I count Toku as on of the strongest leaders 
Optical
The Fall of the Eleventh
Tokugawa. No econ traits... and he's the most idiotic AI in all of existence. :/
AJ11
Emperor
Nothingontv
Warlord
Voted for Joao, don't hate playing as him but as AI he expands very fast ,is often friends with everybody and ends up with someone like Monty as his vassal (at least in my games).
Precisely
Come to papa, my little pretty stack of bad guys...
If that's what you want to do then it's fine I guess
I'd rather have new land as a spoils than more GG.Iam really no fan of prot/agg, but they fit together a bit cos some units get both.
Toku also has good starting techs, you can get Pottery right away.
His UB comes late but has a benefit that is not wasted in that time, and the Samurai is not bad.
Not a bottom tier leader imo.
Toku also has good starting techs, you can get Pottery right away.
His UB comes late but has a benefit that is not wasted in that time, and the Samurai is not bad.
Not a bottom tier leader imo.
AJ11
Emperor
If that's what you want to do then it's fine I guess
You don't get it. When you take over a city, that city becomes YOUR territory. When his counterattack comes...
shyuhe
Deity
I agree with mylene - Toku isn't so bad since with a FP start, you can start planting cottages very early on. Plus, protective is a lot more useful on deity for reducing the chance of an early game loss to a dow. That being said, I don't like HRE. His starting techs are complete crap (even Toku has better techs). Unfortunately he's actually quite decent in the hands of the AI, although he's no Zara.
Nope I don't get it. I'd rather wage offensive wars thank you very much. I try to reconnoiter the AI stack before DOW and destroy it so the counterattack consists of turtling.
I personally agree with you, but I could see the benefit of perma-warring with one AI who you never intend to attack. Worker steal him or something in the early game, and then never grant peace. You won't get much war weariness if you never attack his cities, and he'll make idiotic attacks that feed you experience.
